[W: #18] Jesus is GOD (2 Viewers)

[T25]

I Corinthians 11:14 was written well after CHRIST had ascended and was directed to how believers should present themselves. JESUS might have taken the vow of the Nazarite The Nazirite vow, found in Numbers 6, is a voluntary dedication to God where individuals abstain from certain practices, including wine and grapes, and avoid contact with the dead. The other reality is that CHRIST roamed the countryside and likely wore HIS hair modestly long. HE most certainly didn't wear HIS hair like a Roman nor some Disco Dan

I doubt that Jesus had or has long hair as that is an attribute of women, but I may certainly be mistaken.

 

[CaughtInThe]

We're ALL sinners, even faithful Christians. That's why we need Jesus, so that we can be freed from the slavery of our sin. That all applies to you and everybody else.

Ignoring Jesus" Sermon on the Mount to allow oneself to hate just makes people bigger sinners.

 

[Loulit01]

You brought up Christianity praying to Mary. I said that only Catholics do that. You said I'm wrong. I requested names of Christian denominations that pray to Mary. Instead of answering in good faith you responded with garbage.

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Several Christian denominations include Marian devotions, which may involve praying to, praising, or requesting the intercession of Mary, the mother of Jesus. These include the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Churches, Anglican Communion, Lutheran churches, and some Methodist churches.

 

[LittleNipper]

I doubt that Jesus had or has long hair as that is an attribute of women, but I may certainly be mistaken.

What would one regard as long? Shoulder length? I mean the Beatles were once regarded as having long hair; however, in their early days they were merely mop heads with bangs... Hair on the longer side tends to protect one's ears and neck from the sun, so again, I can fully imagine that JESUS had modestly long hair. So, the paintings of CHRIST with seemingly shoulder length hair doesn't appear unreasonable. And the Shroud of Turin reveals a man with somewhat cropped hair about neck length. That is on the shorter side even by today's standards. But once again, this seems to be more of a Witness tangent. Anything you can do, they say they do it better... I've never seen such a group that takes issue with everything from soup to nuts... Yet, does it make them any better? What does the Bible have to say?

 

[LittleNipper]

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Several Christian denominations include Marian devotions, which may involve praying to, praising, or requesting the intercession of Mary, the mother of Jesus. These include the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Churches, Anglican Communion, Lutheran churches, and some Methodist churches.

Mary was most certainly blessed. But her soul now is with the LORD: however, her example is in the Bible for anyone to read. We are to pray to the FATHER, through the HOLY SPIRIT, in the name of JESUS CHRIST. There is none other.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the firstborn from the dead to an eternal Life, being given the promise of the HS. Each of the verses you quoted which mentions 'firstborn' is not talking about Jesus being preexistent before creation. Jesus is the firstborn of the glorious sons and daughters of God. Read the context around each of those verses.

The bodily resurrection provides the blessed hope that all who love CHRIST JESUS will one day share a resurrected body such as HIS. The Greek is the context.

 

[LittleNipper]

That's the crux, "One God" and to find who is this One God, we need to learn and follow the Christ. Finding "who" was this One God of Christ leads us to the truth. To follow Christ, we must have the same God. Man has invented a triune god and made it a doctrine which must be accepted to be a Christian in their minds. Yet, this was not the God of Christ and he never spoke as a trinitarian, but remained faithful to the 'mark of God'.

Stating three persons are one being, keeping a straight face only comes through indoctrination. It's popular in the Christian World of Churchianity to a doctrine which binds them all together.


(Mat 16:13) When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
(Mat 16:14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
(Mat 16:15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
(Mat 16:16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
(Mat 16:17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 16:18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

SORRY, but it's THREE BEINGS which have ONE ESSENCE. The real problem that you have is that as the son of my father, I'm still fully HUMAN. As the SON of the FATHER, CHRIST would still have to be fully GOD. HOWEVER, as I have pointed out, JESUS emptied HIMSELF to assume HIS human identity, and that means that HE illustrated a perfect HUMANITY through placing HIS trust in the FATHER. Prior to coming into this world JESUS had an eternal existence in comparison with the FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT.

If you are interested you can review the following: https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Trinity.html

 

[Loulit01]

 

[redbeer]

The bodily resurrection provides the blessed hope that all who love CHRIST JESUS will one day share a resurrected body such as HIS. The Greek is the context.

Jesus is the Firstborn into that Life, raised from the dead, ascending to heaven and receiving the Promises.


(Rev 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(Rev 1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[redbeer]

SORRY, but it's THREE BEINGS which have ONE ESSENCE. The real problem that you have is that as the son of my father, I'm still fully HUMAN. As the SON of the FATHER, CHRIST would still have to be fully GOD. HOWEVER, as I have pointed out, JESUS emptied HIMSELF to assume HIS human identity, and that means that HE illustrated a perfect HUMANITY through placing HIS trust in the FATHER. Prior to coming into this world JESUS had an eternal existence in comparison with the FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT.

If you are interested you can review the following: https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Trinity.html

I understand many see Jesus as preexisting to his birth of Mary. I see it more akin in the foreknowledge of God bringing His Son at the meridian of time.....it was the whole entire purpose/reason for creation. The entire creation, principalities, powers were made for this monumental occasion. Beyond that, the ascension receiving the Promise of the HS, Jesus became the Firstborn to receive eternal life and as us, it was God's gift to His Son....Jesus being the first, given all authority and power to act in God's stead.

I don't see Jesus, when he walked this earth all those years ago as any different than us today. He was born a mortal human being, proved by the cross. He wasn't some kind of hybrid, mixture of God and man. The confusion comes when they state "Jesus is God", when actually "God was in Christ" and this subtle difference makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Daisy]

The bodily resurrection provides the blessed hope that all who love CHRIST JESUS will one day share a resurrected body such as HIS. The Greek is the context.

Not for anyone who goes to heaven...

"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Corinthians 15:50

 

[LittleNipper]

Not for anyone who goes to heaven...

"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Corinthians 15:50

Who says that our new bodies will be of flesh and blood ---- they will be eternal. Philippians 3:21 states: JESUS CHRIST will transform believers' earthly bodies to be like HIS glorified body, using the same power that enables HIM to bring everything under HIS control.

 

[Daisy]

Who says that our new bodies will be of flesh and blood ---- they will be eternal. Philippians 3:21 states: JESUS CHRIST will transform believers' earthly bodies to be like HIS glorified body, using the same power that enables HIM to bring everything under HIS control.

There are either physical/flesh and blood bodies or spirit bodies/ invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses...those who enter the kingdom of the heavens will be given spirit bodies since physical bodies cannot enter there...

 

[LittleNipper]

View attachment 67569647

This picture looks like a guy I went to high school with. I didn't catch up beard wise until I was about 35, but I did have pretty good sideburns...

 

[LittleNipper]

There are either physical/flesh and blood bodies or spirit bodies/ invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses...those who enter the kingdom of the heavens will be given spirit bodies since physical bodies cannot enter there...

The Bible clearly says GLORIFIED BODIES. I suppose the Witnesses know exactly what that entails. They know everything about everything and if they don't, it doesn't happen nor exist... The angels go into the presence of GOD and we were created only a little lower than them. Hebrews 2:6-8
6But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”

SIN is the only thing that prevents us from seeing GOD's full glory.

 

[Revelation]

No.

You can't worship Him if He is not GOD...
That would be like worshipping another god.

Tosca, stop for a minute........you hit the Ball out of the park, way out.

God is all we should worship......how can we Worship Jesus if he isn't God ???


thanks. when i meet JW in real life i will ask them that and line up the verses on Worshipping God and God only.

the angels do not accept worship.......ever. "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow... every tongue should confess..."
"They... worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

Exodus 34
14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

should we worship Jesus or not ???

Mathew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Worship is for GOD alone.

amen. is this debate over now???....

Hebrews 1:6	"And let all the angels of God worship him."	Angels worship Jesus
Philippians 2:10-11	"At the name of Jesus every knee should bow... every tongue should confess..."	Universal worship of Jesus
Matthew 14:33	"They... worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."	Disciples worship Jesus
Matthew 28:9	"They... held him by the feet, and worshipped him."	Post-resurrection worship
Revelation 5:12-14	"Worthy is the Lamb... Blessing... be unto him... and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."	Worship of Jesus in heaven https://www.perplexity.ai/search/kjv-bible-full-verse-worship-j-AJbLt0ytQcysv57M00hOOw

 

[reinaert]

For scripture is clear. Jesus is GOD.

Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying.

===================

John 10:32-33 ESV

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

"The Jews" will always be a super problematic phrase. Also, Hekate/Morrigu is Goddess.

 

[Daisy]

The Bible clearly says GLORIFIED BODIES. I suppose the Witnesses know exactly what that entails. They know everything about everything and if they don't, it doesn't happen nor exist... The angels go into the presence of GOD and we were created only a little lower than them. Hebrews 2:6-8
6But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”

SIN is the only thing that prevents us from seeing GOD's full glory.

Adam and Eve were created sinless, yet they had flesh and blood bodies...Jesus was sinless, yet he had a flesh and blood body and was resurrected with a spiritual one because he was about to enter the kingdom of the heavens...it ain't rocket science, it just takes a little reasoning on the scriptures...

 

[Terryj]

I'll stick with what Jesus taught and what the early, 1st century Christians believed...

First-century Christians did not explicitly believe in the Trinity as a formally defined doctrine. The concept of the Trinity, one God existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), was not explicitly developed and codified until the 4th century, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia and other sources.

Development of Doctrine:
The doctrine of the Trinity developed gradually over time, with various theological debates and councils leading to the Nicene Creed and the formal articulation of the doctrine.

Early Christian Beliefs:
Early Christians believed in one supreme God, Jesus as Lord (YHWH), and the power of the Holy Spirit. They acknowledged the role of the Son and the Holy Spirit, but not necessarily as equal partners within the divine being.
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Daisy, what you posted here is the reason the Gnostic Gospels were not allowed in the canonization of the Bible. The Gnostic Gospels didn't fit with the polictics of the time, the church saw a way to gain power over the people and the Gnostic Gospels provided mankind with a way to become that in which they were already destinded to be. God forbid if they became like Christ in which Jesus asked them to do.

 

[nota bene]

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All that I am sure of is that I will know Him when I meet Him.

Thank you for pointing out that while there is devotion to Mary, she isn't prayed to; instead, she is asked to pray for you and/or others.

This is the "communion of saints" referred to here:

The Apostles’ Creed​

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places https://www.bibles.net/the-full-text-of-the-apostles-creed/

 

[LittleNipper]

Adam and Eve were created sinless, yet they had flesh and blood bodies...Jesus was sinless, yet he had a flesh and blood body and was resurrected with a spiritual one because he was about to enter the kingdom of the heavens...it ain't rocket science, it just takes a little reasoning on the scriptures...

We don't know that. They had perfect bodies originally. Adam's body was made from the dust of the ground, but the Bible isn't explicit as to what HE made that body to be exactly... GOD made the angels but we are not told how. And it's never good to assume. Adam and Eve were changed as part of their punishment and became corrupted. It isn't rocket science, but it is no less of a miracle.

 

[Daisy]

We don't know that.

We do know that because that is what the Bible tells us...that is if we are capable of using our power of reasoning on the scriptures...oh, and if you know your Hebrew and Greek...

The physical structure of a human or an animal. The Hebrew word gewi·yahʹ refers to a body, whether alive (Ge 47:18) or dead. (1Sa 31:10; Ps 110:6) The Hebrew neve·lahʹ comes from the root verb na·velʹ (“wither”; Ps 1:3) and is variously rendered “dead body,” ‘carcass,’ and “corpse.” (Le 5:2; De 14:8; Isa 26:19) Ba·sarʹ, the Hebrew word for flesh, can represent the whole body. (Compare Ps 16:9; see FLESH.) The usual Greek word for “body” is soʹma (Mt 5:29), but khros, literally “skin,” is rendered “body” in Acts 19:12. The Greek word ptoʹma, which comes from the root verb piʹpto (fall), refers to a fallen body or “corpse.” (Mt 14:12) The different kinds of physical bodies are composed of different kinds of flesh, together with the life-force.—1Co 15:39; Jas 2:26; Ge 7:22

While there are physical bodies, visible and palpable, there are also spiritual bodies, invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses. (1Co 15:44) The bodies of spirit persons (God, Christ, the angels) are glorious. “At no time has anyone beheld God.” (1Jo 4:12) Man cannot see God and live. (Ex 33:20) When the apostle Paul had only a glimpse of the manifestation of Jesus Christ after Jesus’ resurrection, he fell to the ground and was blinded by the brilliance, a miracle being required to restore his sight. (Ac 9:3-5, 17, 18; 26:13, 14) Likewise, angels are far more powerful than men. (2Pe 2:11) They are glorious, brilliant ones and have appeared as such in physical manifestations. (Mt 28:2-4; Lu 2:9) These spirit sons of God have vision strong enough to see and endure the brilliance of the Almighty God.—Lu 1:19.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000783

 

[Daisy]

Daisy, what you posted here is the reason the Gnostic Gospels were not allowed in the canonization of the Bible. The Gnostic Gospels didn't fit with the polictics of the time, the church saw a way to gain power over the people and the Gnostic Gospels provided mankind with a way to become that in which they were already destinded to be. God forbid if they became like Christ in which Jesus asked them to do.

I'm not sure about that but I do know the history of the trinity and it ain't pretty...or true to what the Bible teaches...

 

[redbeer]

There are either physical/flesh and blood bodies or spirit bodies/ invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses...those who enter the kingdom of the heavens will be given spirit bodies since physical bodies cannot enter there...

(1Co 15:42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
(1Co 15:43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
(1Co 15:44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Co 15:45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(1Co 15:46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(1Co 15:47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
(1Co 15:48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
(1Co 15:49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Some simply cannot or will not let go of the flesh for their mind is still carnal. They see "spiritual body" and automatically assume it's speaking of a glorified flesh and bone body, lol. Christ since being given the promise of the HS is not flesh and bones, for we do not have a 'flesh and bone' Christ 'in' us, as He is the firstborn into the inheritance.

(2Co 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(2Co 5:18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
(2Co 5:19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[LittleNipper]

We do know that because that is what the Bible tells us...that is if we are capable of using our power of reasoning on the scriptures...oh, and if you know your Hebrew and Greek...

The physical structure of a human or an animal. The Hebrew word gewi·yahʹ refers to a body, whether alive (Ge 47:18) or dead. (1Sa 31:10; Ps 110:6) The Hebrew neve·lahʹ comes from the root verb na·velʹ (“wither”; Ps 1:3) and is variously rendered “dead body,” ‘carcass,’ and “corpse.” (Le 5:2; De 14:8; Isa 26:19) Ba·sarʹ, the Hebrew word for flesh, can represent the whole body. (Compare Ps 16:9; see FLESH.) The usual Greek word for “body” is soʹma (Mt 5:29), but khros, literally “skin,” is rendered “body” in Acts 19:12. The Greek word ptoʹma, which comes from the root verb piʹpto (fall), refers to a fallen body or “corpse.” (Mt 14:12) The different kinds of physical bodies are composed of different kinds of flesh, together with the life-force.—1Co 15:39; Jas 2:26; Ge 7:22

While there are physical bodies, visible and palpable, there are also spiritual bodies, invisible to human eyes and entirely beyond human senses. (1Co 15:44) The bodies of spirit persons (God, Christ, the angels) are glorious. “At no time has anyone beheld God.” (1Jo 4:12) Man cannot see God and live. (Ex 33:20) When the apostle Paul had only a glimpse of the manifestation of Jesus Christ after Jesus’ resurrection, he fell to the ground and was blinded by the brilliance, a miracle being required to restore his sight. (Ac 9:3-5, 17, 18; 26:13, 14) Likewise, angels are far more powerful than men. (2Pe 2:11) They are glorious, brilliant ones and have appeared as such in physical manifestations. (Mt 28:2-4; Lu 2:9) These spirit sons of God have vision strong enough to see and endure the brilliance of the Almighty God.—Lu 1:19.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000783

Daisy, I'm sorry but how Adam an Eve's bodies were before they sinned is not explicit. The verses you quote are long after the Adam and Eve event... All born-again believers will one day possess a body such as CHRIST possessed when HE ascended into the sky for ALL to see & when HE returns it will be seen by everyone. You don't believe in either the NEW JERUSALEM not hell it would seem. The Witnesses have such a warped view of GOD, CHRIST, the HOLY SPIRIT, HEAVEN, HELL, the 144,000, celebrating, worship, crucifixion, communion, the Archangel Michael, Satan, blood transfusion, the list goes on and on and on. There is still hope in CHRIST JESUS --- if one is willing to commune with HIM. As long as you enslave yourself to religion, you can never hope to be free if saved at all. CHRIST saves when one realizes who HE is..