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[W: #18] Jesus is GOD (1 Viewer)

You say you're not JW.

Okay - respond to this. in your own way. Dig up a verse!



Post #360


(Joh 4:23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
(Joh 4:24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(Joh 4:25) The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
(Joh 4:26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


We can worship Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, our Lord.....made so by the Only True God, the Father is who we worship as our God.
 
(Joh 4:23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
(Joh 4:24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(Joh 4:25) The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
(Joh 4:26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


We can worship Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, our Lord.....made so by the Only True God, the Father is who we worship as our God.


No.

You can't worship Him if He is not GOD.
That would be like worshipping another god.


Exodus 34
14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.


Mathew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”





Worship is for GOD alone.
 
WHOA!


Thank you
@redbeer for having provided the opportunity for this to be found!



It's ONLY God, whom we serve!



Mathew 4:10

Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’




And yet.....................we're serving Christ!

That's what it means to be called, SERVANTS of Christ!




In many places in the New Testament, the apostle Paul refers to himself as “a servant of Jesus Christ” (e.g., Romans 1:1; Colossians 4:12; Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 4:6).
The Lord’s half-brother Jude refers to himself in the same way (Jude 1:1). Rather than capitalize on his close relationship to Jesus, Jude relegated himself to the status of a servant. Jesus’ family, friends,
and chosen apostles refer to themselves as His servants, the plain implication being that Jesus is Lord.

“Servant” is a translation of the Greek word doulos, which means more literally “a slave or bondservant, someone who sets aside all rights of his own to serve another.”

Because the word slave carries such a negative connotation to our modern sensitivities, we often choose the word servant instead.
However, servant does not quite capture the real meaning of doulos. Paul said he was a “slave” to Christ.


 
No.

You can't worship Him if He is not GOD.
That would be like worshipping another god.


Exodus 34
14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.


Mathew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”





Worship is for GOD alone.

I said to worship Jesus as the Christ, Son of God and left worship to God only to the Father.....didn't you read my post?

In this way I give honor to both the Son and the Father through obedience to God and discipleship to Christ.

I have only One who is God, whom I worship as God.


G4352
προσκυνέω
proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
Total KJV occurrences: 60
 
I said to worship Jesus as the Christ, Son of God and left worship to God only to the Father.....didn't you read my post?

In this way I give honor to both the Son and the Father through obedience to God and discipleship to Christ.

I have only One who is God, whom I worship as God.


G4352
προσκυνέω
proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
Total KJV occurrences: 60


You're missing the point (again).
I've already provided the biblical definition of worship in that other thread.


I'll believe Jesus and the Bible, thank you.

have a nice day.
 
You're missing the point (again).
I've already provided the biblical definition of worship in that other thread.


I'll believe Jesus and the Bible, thank you.

have a nice day.

Worship is a word used in many different contexts......worshipping only One as God is what we are commanded. The trinity has three.....game over.
 
@Manc Skipper
@redbeer



The answer has the word that seems alien to JW.



JESUS prayed to GOD.........................


.....because............



When Jesus, the eternal Son of God, took upon Himself sinless humanity He also took on the form of a servant, giving up His heavenly glory (Philippians 2:5-11).
As the God-man, He had to learn obedience (Hebrews 5:8) to His Father as He was tempted by Satan, accused falsely by men, rejected by His people, and eventually crucified.

His praying to His heavenly Father was to ask for power (John 11:41-42) and wisdom (Mark 1:35; 6:46).

His praying showed His dependence upon His Father in His humanity to carry out His Father’s plan of redemption, as evidenced in Christ’s high priestly prayer in John 17.
His praying demonstrated that He ultimately submitted to His Father’s will, which was to go to the cross and pay the penalty (death) for our breaking God’s law (Matthew 26:31-46).
Of course, He rose bodily from the grave, winning forgiveness and eternal life for those who repent of sin and believe in Him as the Savior.

There is no problem with God the Son praying or talking to God the Father. As mentioned, they had an eternal relationship before Christ became a man. This relationship is depicted in the Gospels so we can see how the Son of God in His humanity carried out His Father’s will, and in doing so, purchased redemption for His children (John 6:38). Christ’s continual submission to His heavenly Father was empowered and kept focused through His prayer life. Christ’s example of prayer is ours to follow.


Jesus Christ was no less God on earth when praying to His Father in heaven. He was depicting how even in sinless humanity it is necessary to have a vital prayer life in order to do His Father’s will.
Jesus’ praying to the Father was a demonstration of His relationship within the Trinity and an example for us that we must rely on God through prayer for the strength and wisdom we need.
Since Christ, as the God-man, needed to have a vibrant prayer life, so should the follower of Christ today.

There's an awful lot of rationalisation and misdirection in that missive. Who was he talking to as he faked his death?
 
435ea2d53703c0a2c25598ad14e07e6a.jpg
 
Wow.....if this is any indication how you understand scripture, you need a clean sweep. Trying to see/grasp spiritual things using your own logic/mind will always lead you into the wrong rabbit hole.


JESUS as SON of MAN and SON of GOD in a state of having depleted HIMSELF [In Philippians 2:7, the phrase "emptied himself" refers to Jesus voluntarily limiting himself by taking on the form of a servant, becoming human, and submitting to the will of the Father, even death on the cross. This act of self-emptying, known as kenosis, highlights Jesus' humility and obedience.], so as to be dependent on the FATHER and assume HIS human role [ Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly (truly, truly), I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, (why) but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He (the Father) does, the Son also does in like manner” – John 5:19.], would be Satan's only chance to usurp GOD's integrity and power. Hypothetically, had JESUS capitulated to Satan, The FATHER would have been bound legally (GOD is JUST) to place Satan above HIS SON. JESUS might have retained the earthly kingdoms, but LUCIFER would have gained LORDSHIP of the COSMOS and would have taken over the future of the Universe. This is what I imagine. Satan is clever but he cannot be everywhere and HE isn't all knowing. And how smart could he possibly be having witnessed the creation of most everything and the very glory of GOD and yet conceived of becoming like GOD. This is a mystery. Needless to say that Satan actually hates humanity because it was created in the image of GOD. I also imagine that Satan has become steadily worse and more depraved as he has moved further and further from his original purpose as designed by GOD. Kind of like the employee who loses his job for an indiscretion and now is bent on either taking over the company of blowing it up..... A temper tantrum on a epic scale. This is hinted at in a few passages of the Bible, but since the Bible is all about CHRIST, Satan's escapades are rather obscured in the Bible's pages. In any respect, Satan is/was a created entity while the MESSIAH is eternal. And the MESSIAH/CHRIST has always shared a loving relationship with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as a member of the GODHEAD. https://luke173ministries.org/satans-evil-minion-the-unredeemable-reprobate/
God is ever gracious and forgiving, and gives us many, many chances to repent and turn from our sinful ways. Reprobates have rejected the message of the Holy Spirit. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin….Mark 3:29NIV. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme…1 Timothy 1: 20NIV.

Even God has a limit to his patience, and the reprobate has stepped beyond the pale. The Lord knows when someone is indeed a hopeless case and will never repent and turn to him no matter what. He turns her over to her reprobate mind, and allows her to suffer the Natural Consequences of her wickedness in her worldly life, relationships, etc., before she dies and goes on to suffer for all eternity:

On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day, they will ask, “Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?” And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods….Deuteronomy 31:17-18NIV. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sin is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God….Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV.
 
Colossians 1:15 actually means the following: "Firstborn" refers to supremacy, or priority. Jesus is the greatest over all creation. He is not a created being; He is the Creator. https://www.bibleref.com/Colossians/1/Colossians-1-15.html
That is not what firstborn means...but you keep believin' that, ya hear...Jehovah brought forth/created Jesus 1st, before anything else...

firstborn​

adjective

first·born ˈfərs(t)-ˈbȯrn

: first brought forth : eldest
firstborn noun
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firstborn
 

JESUS as SON of MAN and SON of GOD in a state of having depleted HIMSELF [In Philippians 2:7, the phrase "emptied himself" refers to Jesus voluntarily limiting himself by taking on the form of a servant, becoming human, and submitting to the will of the Father, even death on the cross. This act of self-emptying, known as kenosis, highlights Jesus' humility and obedience.], so as to be dependent on the FATHER and assume HIS human role [ Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly (truly, truly), I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, (why) but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He (the Father) does, the Son also does in like manner” – John 5:19.], would be Satan's only chance to usurp GOD's integrity and power. Hypothetically, had JESUS capitulated to Satan, The FATHER would have been bound legally (GOD is JUST) to place Satan above HIS SON. JESUS might have retained the earthly kingdoms, but LUCIFER would have gained LORDSHIP of the COSMOS and would have taken over the future of the Universe. This is what I imagine. Satan is clever but he cannot be everywhere and HE isn't all knowing. And how smart could he possibly be having witnessed the creation of most everything and the very glory of GOD and yet conceived of becoming like GOD. This is a mystery. Needless to say that Satan actually hates humanity because it was created in the image of GOD. I also imagine that Satan has become steadily worse and more depraved as he has moved further and further from his original purpose as designed by GOD. Kind of like the employee who loses his job for an indiscretion and now is bent on either taking over the company of blowing it up..... A temper tantrum on a epic scale. This is hinted at in a few passages of the Bible, but since the Bible is all about CHRIST, Satan's escapades are rather obscured in the Bible's pages. In any respect, Satan is/was a created entity while the MESSIAH is eternal. And the MESSIAH/CHRIST has always shared a loving relationship with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as a member of the GODHEAD. https://luke173ministries.org/satans-evil-minion-the-unredeemable-reprobate/
God is ever gracious and forgiving, and gives us many, many chances to repent and turn from our sinful ways. Reprobates have rejected the message of the Holy Spirit. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin….Mark 3:29NIV. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme…1 Timothy 1: 20NIV.

Even God has a limit to his patience, and the reprobate has stepped beyond the pale. The Lord knows when someone is indeed a hopeless case and will never repent and turn to him no matter what. He turns her over to her reprobate mind, and allows her to suffer the Natural Consequences of her wickedness in her worldly life, relationships, etc., before she dies and goes on to suffer for all eternity:

On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day, they will ask, “Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?” And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods….Deuteronomy 31:17-18NIV. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sin is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God….Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV.

Wow......that dividing Christ into two natures and speaking of Him as if he is two different persons sure does make scripture a mystery, lol. This is just too far out in left field for me.
 
Wow......that dividing Christ into two natures and speaking of Him as if he is two different persons sure does make scripture a mystery, lol. This is just too far out in left field for me.
Nothing but double talk and a whole lotta twisting... :sneaky:
 
That is not what firstborn means...but you keep believin' that, ya hear...Jehovah brought forth/created Jesus 1st, before anything else...

firstborn​

adjective

first·born ˈfərs(t)-ˈbȯrn

: first brought forth : eldest
firstborn noun
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firstborn

I see Colassians 1:15 speaking more to Jesus, the firstborn in the Resurrection, ascending to heaven receiving the promise of the HS......the entire reason/center/purpose of this creation. Many forget the story of the younger Joseph and his older brothers and its message. This was the main focal point of God and this creation, the coming of His Son in the meridian of time, and is actually the Firstborn, the first to be risen given the Promises. The great news is this is also promised to us through the things Christ did in remaining obedient to His Father and God. Acceptance of His life, death, and resurrection leads to a much higher life, the life of the sons and daughters of God.
 
Nothing but double talk and a whole lotta twisting... :sneaky:

Yeah, they keep reading each others opinions of the trinity and it becomes more and more of a cluster, further and further away from scripture each time, lol.
 
Yeah, they keep reading each others opinions of the trinity and it becomes more and more of a cluster, further and further away from scripture each time, lol.
It's amazing to me, and not in a good way, of how many scriptures they totally ignore in order to come to that conclusion...
 
That is not what firstborn means...but you keep believin' that, ya hear...Jehovah brought forth/created Jesus 1st, before anything else...

firstborn​

adjective

first·born ˈfərs(t)-ˈbȯrn

: first brought forth : eldest
firstborn noun
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firstborn
You are regarding only an English concept and disregarding a Middle Eastern ancient Greek concept: https://ccslancers.com/blog/2015/10/19/jesus-the-firstborn/
uggested Scripture Reading: Colossians 1:11-20

May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities ‘all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Devotional Thoughts:

Christ’s relationship to His Father begins with the phrase “the image of the invisible God.” The word “image,” meaning copy or likeness, expresses Christ’s deity. This word involves more than a resemblance, more than a representation. He is God! Although He took on human form, He has the exact nature of His Father

The description “first-born of all creation” speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator. God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ. Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word “first-born” (Greek word “prototokos”) signifies priority. In the culture of the Bible times, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership. Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ’s sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth. Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world.

Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: “I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth” (Psalm 89:27).

Six times in scripture the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.

Discussion Questions:

  1. How does it make you feel to know that as a believer in Jesus, you share in God’s inheritance?
  2. Since God clearly sets Jesus apart as holding the highest position, what is your response to the command to follow Him?
  3. Since God’s love is so great to us, what should we do for Him?
The mission of Cambridge Christian School is to glorify God in all that we do; to demonstrate excellence at every level of academic, athletic, and artistic involvement; to develop strength of character; and to serve the local and global community.
 
Nothing but double talk and a whole lotta twisting... :sneaky:
If you want to regard twisting --- consider the Witnesses' view of the 144,000 which changed from Hebrew/Jewish, virgin, males --- into many Witnesses who were/are nothing of the sort. The Witnesses are not without their 'problem' areas.
 
Jesus is mocking the Pharisees and their legalistic ways. Saying "Isn't it written in the law ye are gods". And hence they are calling him blasphemous because some others refer to him as the Son of God. It's true his followers believed he was God. Peter was the first to realize he was the Christ. Hence the 'blessed art thou Peter upon this rock I'll build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail'. The scriptures and Christ himself do everything to not say he's God but implying that he is through his actions and miracles. There's just enough subtleties in the text that people can read completely past it. Which is why the scriptures need taught by people within the tradition. This is one of the reasons Muslims can't understand why Christianity is true. The Gospel is not supposed to be this historical document with every sentence is recorded to literal hundred percent historicity. These are stories that were passed along by his followers and used in church services.

To JWs and other non-trinitarians, you are following a perversion of the faith that does not follow what Christians have believed for thousands of years. The incarnation that Jesus is God in the flesh is the central message of Christianity. You cannot even claim to be a Christian denying this.
 
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If you want to regard twisting --- consider the Witnesses' view of the 144,000 which changed from Hebrew/Jewish, virgin, males --- into many Witnesses who were/are nothing of the sort. The Witnesses are not without their 'problem' areas.
Another one of your many lies...shame on you...
 
I'll stick with what Jesus taught and what the early, 1st century Christians believed...

First-century Christians did not explicitly believe in the Trinity as a formally defined doctrine. The concept of the Trinity, one God existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), was not explicitly developed and codified until the 4th century, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia and other sources.

Development of Doctrine:
The doctrine of the Trinity developed gradually over time, with various theological debates and councils leading to the Nicene Creed and the formal articulation of the doctrine.

Early Christian Beliefs:
Early Christians believed in one supreme God, Jesus as Lord (YHWH), and the power of the Holy Spirit. They acknowledged the role of the Son and the Holy Spirit, but not necessarily as equal partners within the divine being.
Google
 
Another one of your many lies...shame on you...
Not according to the Jehovah Witnesses: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/go-to-heaven/

But here is the untwisted truth: https://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovahs-Witnesses-144000.html

Bible References to the 144,000​

Because the book of Daniel has been unsealed, we have four valid rules of interpretation. Because we have the rules, the identity, mission and timing of the 144,000 can be determined. Since Rule Two of apocalyptic prophecy requires that all specifications be met in order to produce a fulfillment, please review the following specifications concerning the 144,000. A discussion about each specification will follow:

  1. John calls the 144,000, “servants,” “servants the prophets,” and “servants of God” in the book of Revelation. (Revelation 6:11, 7:3, 10:7, 19:2)
  2. The four angels do not hurt Earth until the 144,000 are sealed. (Revelation 7:3)
  3. The 144,000 will be the first to receive the seal of God. (Revelation 7:3) They will be presented to God as the firstfruits of the Great Tribulation. They will not be defiled with women and they will travel with Jesus wherever He goes. (Revelation 14:4)
  4. Unlike the numberless multitude who will come out of the Great Tribulation, the 144,000 will be numbered. (Revelation 7:5-8, 9, 14)
  5. The 144,000 will experience and endure the sufferings of Christ. They will be honored above the rest of the redeemed. No one else will be able to sing their song. (Revelation 14:1, 3)
  6. No lie or falsehood will be found in the mouths of the 144,000. (Revelation 14:5)
  7. The 144,000 will visibly wear the names of the Father and Son on their foreheads throughout eternity. (Revelation 14:1; Revelation 22:3, 4)
  8. The 144,000 will be Jews, descendants of Abraham. (Revelation 7:5-8)
 
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I'll stick with what Jesus taught and what the early, 1st century Christians believed...

First-century Christians did not explicitly believe in the Trinity as a formally defined doctrine. The concept of the Trinity, one God existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), was not explicitly developed and codified until the 4th century, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia and other sources.

Development of Doctrine:
The doctrine of the Trinity developed gradually over time, with various theological debates and councils leading to the Nicene Creed and the formal articulation of the doctrine.

Early Christian Beliefs:
Early Christians believed in one supreme God, Jesus as Lord (YHWH), and the power of the Holy Spirit. They acknowledged the role of the Son and the Holy Spirit, but not necessarily as equal partners within the divine being.
Google
The above is a false misconception and here is the proof: https://www.christian-history.org/doctrine-of-the-trinity.html

The Doctrine of the Trinity:​

Did It Develop over Time?​

I do not accept the common historical belief that the doctrine of the Trinity was developed over time and then finalized at Nicea. I hope I have already established that there is a consistency from the time of the apostles all the way through the Council of Nicea.

The study I put into these articles has resulted in a book called Decoding Nicea. Often reviewed as "interesting," it tells the story of Nicea in more detail than is possible here...
...It certainly was not finalized at Nicea. We have seen that the Nicene Creed was adapted into the Athanasian Creed which then became our modern doctrine of the Trinity. The Nicene definition of the Trinity, for the most part, is long forgotten.

However, if I am going to take a stand—and teach it on this web site—that is not accepted and popular among historians, I want to prove it thoroughly. Therefore, I want to give you plenty of evidence that the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity did not develop but is taught throughout the earliest Christian writings after the apostles.

Let's begin with Eusebius, the historian.

Eusebius of Caesarea​

Eusebius the historian
Eusebius the historian


 
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Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History was written in A.D. 323 and is still published in several formats today. Many people who have not read anything else from the primitive church have read his history.

Eusebius wrote a letter after the Council of Nicea justifying its conclusions. He wrote for good reason. It was the "rule of faith" of his church, Caesarea, that was used as the basis for the Nicene Creed, and he was explaining the adaptations that the council had made.

Because that letter is written so apologetically, Eusebius' adherence to an orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is questioned.

Worse, when people read the Nicene Creed through the eyes of the modern doctrine of the Trinity, Eusebius' orthodoxy is even further questioned. As we have seen, there are places where the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity and our modern teaching conflict.
But Eusebius is possibly the best witness of the consistency of the pre-Nicene doctrine of the Trinity. His Ecclesiastical History is replete with quotes from the writers before him. In fact, much that has been lost and is unavailable today is preserved in his writings.

If the Church in its earlier days had believed anything different from Nicea, or if the doctrine of the Trinity had developed over time, no one would know better than Eusebius. However, instead of testifying to change, Eusebius defended the Nicene Creed with these words:

That he is consubstantial with the Father then simply implies, that the Son of God has no resemblance to created things, but is in every respect like the Father only who begat him; and that he is of no other substance or essence but of the Father. To which doctrine, explained in this way, it appeared right to assent, especially since we knew that some eminent bishops and learned writers among the ancients have used the term "homoousios" in their theological discourses concerning the nature of the Father and the Son. (The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates Scholasticus, ch. 8)
Here he agrees with the use of homoousios because it was used by earlier writers. We have seen on this page how Tertullian regularly refers to the substance of God in his writings. Eusebius was aware of this.

Let's become aware of that ourselves. Let's simply begin at the beginning, in the earliest of the Christian writings after the New Testament.

Anonymous Letter to Diognetus​

One of the very earliest Christian writings is the anonymous letter to Diognetus. It may have been written as early as A.D. 80, though its date has been difficult to determine. Even at this early date, however, we can see the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity.

Interesting Note​

The Epistle to Diognetus is the only one of the Pre-Nicene writings to quote no Scripture
Truly God himself … has sent from heaven and placed among men the truth and the holy and incomprehensible Word and has firmly established him in their hearts. He did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, angel, ruler, or anyone of those who bear sway over earthly things … but the very Creator and Fashioner of all things—by whom he made the heavens. (ch. 7)
This anonymous author was not trying to explain the doctrine of the Trinity, but he leaves us several clues that he held to the Nicene faith.

  • He refers to the Son as the Word, and he does so repeatedly (though you can't see it in this small quote).
  • He contrasts God with the Word. He does not say the Father sent the Word, but that God did.
  • Nonetheless, the Word is the Creator and Fashioner of all things
  • The Word is not the Creator alone, but God created all things through him.

 

Ignatius and the Doctrine of the Trinity​

Ignatius, one of the most important witnesses to the apostolic era, has some unusual comments in his letters. In the introduction to his letter to the Ephesians, he refers to "the will of the Father and Jesus Christ, our God."
This reference to Jesus Christ as God while the Father is being mentioned seems to be an exception to Tertullian's terminology concerning the Trinity.
I don't have any explanation for this other than that there's nothing in this terminology that violates the Nicene faith. This terminology is unique to Ignatius, who is a notable but lone exception.
He also refers to "the blood of God" in chapter one of that same letter. This sort of terminology can be found in Acts 20:28 as well.
Make no mistake, however. Ignatius' views are not an exception. Quotes like: " … in one faith of God the Father and of Jesus Christ his only-begotten Son, the first-born of every creature" are throughout his writings.
Here's another one:

He sent the Word that he might be manifested to the world … This is he who was from the beginning, who appeared as if new, and was found old, yet is ever born afresh in the hearts of the saints. This is he, who being from everlasting, is today called the Son. (ch. 11)

Justin Martyr​

There are other Christian writers between the Letter to Diognetus and Justin Martyr, but none of them say anything clearly about the doctrine of the Trinity, except perhaps this quote from Clement of Rome:

The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from God. (First Clement 42).
Justin, on the other hand, says a lot about the doctrine of the Trinity because he's having to explain to a Jew why Christians call more than one Divine Person God.

He actually makes his first mention of the Divine Logos in his letter to the emperor, referred to as First Apology. He argues that the Logos imparted wisdom to Socrates in order to allow him to correct the demon worship of the Greeks.

Not only among the Greeks did Logos prevail to condemn these things through Socrates, but also among the barbarians were they condemned by the Logos himself, who took shape, became man, and was called Jesus Christ. (ch. 5)
He is very direct in Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew

God begat before all creatures a Beginning, a certain rational power from himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit … the glory of the Lord, then the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos. (ch. 61)
An artist's depiction of Justin Martyr
An artist's depiction of Justin Martyr
Justin even provides illustrations of how such a begetting might have happened!

He was begotten of the Father by an act of will, just as we see happening among ourselves. For when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by cutting off so as to lessen the word in us … just as we see happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same. And that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. (ibid.)
He then adds the typical reference to Proverbs 8:22:

The Word of Wisdom, who is himself this God begotten of the Father of all things—and Word, Wisdom, Power, and the Glory of the Begetter—will bear witness to me when he speaks by Solomon the following: " … The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works. From everlasting he established me in the beginning before he had made the earth." (ibid.)
Justin's belief in Jesus as the Logos of God generated in eternity past is so clear that references are made to Justin's "Logos doctrine." However, his Logos doctrine is the same one that all other well-instructed early Christians believed.

 

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