[W:1721] [W:2837] Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

[Bodi]

And you continue to ignore legitimate questions.

Not at all...

How many more children live with a female in the home than a male?

Look up your own information.

There are any number of other variables that make those numbers sensational, but not all telling.

I have provided evidence showing that women abuse children more than men. If you want to counter that with why that might be then provide some relevant evidence of your own... just guessing doesn't prove anything.

 

[Bodi]

Perhaps one day you’ll get past being bitter over child support

Once a person tries to make it personal the debate is over... you lost. Not only that, your show a real lack of character and honesty by even bothering to try to make the claim you did here.

and be able to have a thoughtful conversation.

I have them with so many... but generally not you. You are pretty rude.

Today doesn’t seem to be that day, again.

Maybe you will come to the point in your life where you can stop blaming men for your inability to amount to much of anything...

 

[Lursa]

I have provided evidence showing that women abuse children more than men. If you want to counter that with why that might be then provide some relevant evidence of your own... just guessing doesn't prove anything.

Your source showed straight numbers, instances, not a ratio.

We know there are way more kids living with single mothers, and in general spend much more time with mothers. So there are more opportunities, unfortunately. It doesnt mean that women abuse kids more than men do.

And if you were really so concerned about kids, you'd support non-custodial parents paying their fair share of child support so that the household had less stress and was more secure. Seems pretty hypocritical to me...just cherry picking something in support of kids when it's convenient to your argument.

 

[Lursa]

Once a person tries to make it personal the debate is over... you lost. Not only that, your show a real lack of character and honesty by even bothering to try to make the claim you did here.

I have them with so many... but generally not you. You are pretty rude.

Maybe you will come to the point in your life where you can stop blaming men for your inability to amount to much of anything...

I posted civil quotes and sources and arguments that had nothing to do with you in post 237 and you didnt respond...what's your excuse for that? Care to try again? Or it can be helpful to newcomers:

It's not about the man or the woman. It's about the child. And then it's about the taxpayers, who then get stuck with paying, for a child they didnt create. Both man and woman knowingly risked that pregnancy and so should be held accountable, not the taxpayers having to pay even more than we pay when there are no parents/single parent.​

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It's about the welfare of the child...and the opt out is Bodi's idea to try and manipulate women into having the abortion, since they know they cant actually force women to do so. That's why he'll yell "there's no child!"​

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And yet, since she can still have it no matter what they sign or agree to, IF there's a child, it's about the child's statutory right to child support. ​

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Child Support is a statutory right that actually "belongs" to the child. Neither the egg donor nor the sperm donor can "contract out" of their liability under the laws that grant the statutory right to child support.​

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So anything 'pre-conception' or 'pre-birth' is useless...if there's a child, their statutory right supersedes the contract or law.​

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"No matter what situation gives rise to the need for child support, it might help to think of the legal right to child support as being possessed by a child (which it technically is), for his or her proper care and upbringing, regardless of who actually receives child support payments.​

The fact that the custodial parent has a high income does not itself justify deviation from the guidelines, because under the law children have the right to benefit from both parents' incomes."​

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Child Support Basics - FindLaw

Because in the United States nearly half of all marriages end in divorce and almost one-fourth of all children are born to unmarried parents, the regulation of child support is an important social issue. Learn about the basics of child support, and more, at FindLaw's Child Support section.

www.findlaw.com

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--also--​

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A child’s right to receive parental support is inherent and cannot be waived by either party. Regardless of the parents’ relationship with one another (whether married, divorced, separated, or never married), as long as paternity has been established, both parents are on the hook for child support. Regardless of any arrangement—such as “trading” spousal support for child support—both parents still have a legal obligation to support the child.​

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Can You Waive Child Support? | Law Office of Heath L. Baker

Can you waive child support in Riverside? If you want an experienced family law attorney on your side, contact Heath Baker Law. Call us for a FREE consult!

heathbakerlaw.com

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--and--​

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Nothing will keep the father from contacting the kid (or the kid from contacting the father) further down the line. And he can still be involved in the kid's life. No court will stop that...because all agree that it's best for the kid to have the father involved in their lives. (I do too). Some states even let rapists apply for custody when they're released...they're certainly not going to stop non-criminals from being in their kids' lives. Again, what's best for the child will negate any contract saying otherwise. The child has a right to both parents involvement.​

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Men will get out of all the responsibilities AND still get to be a father when they feel like it.​

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There are reasons why society and the courts created child support. Give non-custodial parents a chance to walk away and of course they will again. Nothing's changed.

 

[Bodi]

Yeah, just let those dead beats continue to be dead beats, right?

Just let those women continue to kill their developing children...

 

[Argent]

Just let those women continue to kill their developing children...

Lol, here's where your logic fails, an aborted fetus doesn't need anything. A live child legally obligates its parents to financially support it until it's 18. Either parent who fails doing that is a deadbeat. There are some areas where abortion is restricted/illegal but there is no where in the US where it's legal for a parent to withhold financial support.

 

[BirdinHand]

Just let those women continue to kill their developing children...

I have more respect for a woman that chooses an abortion than I do for anyone that doesn’t support their kid.

The two are not even close to being the same.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Forcing men into involuntary servitude to the mother of a child they did not make nor do they want is a form of abuse. Now you know.

If you really think that then you cannot possibly be anti-abortion and remain consistent.

 

[Bodi]

Lol, here's where your logic fails, an aborted fetus doesn't need anything.

There was no logic. I was making a stupid statement to illustrate a stupid statement by @BirdinHand

Thanks.

 

[Lursa]

I have provided evidence showing that women abuse children more than men. If you want to counter that with why that might be then provide some relevant evidence of your own... just guessing doesn't prove anything.

Oh hey, look at this from your linked article, your "source:"

"1,704 were killed by a mother acting alone. That represents only 0.12% of the1,452,099 children who are neglected by their mother alone. For fathers, who by themselves neglected 661,129 children, they killed 0.13% (859). So in terms of parents acting alone, fathers kill MORE children than mothers."​

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link ​

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You keep failing to support anything in your OP when challenged. And even the tangents, like this.

 

[soylentgreen]

I love foatherhood, especially when the kids are little. I would have liked more children but my wife wanted to stop at two, so we did.

Big difference between an actual father and someone having their pay taxed.

 

[soylentgreen]

Why can't women put children first and not have them if they can't afford them?

Are you seriously trying for a eugenics argument? Only the rich should breed?

 

[soylentgreen]

Women should not be forced into motherhood and men should not be forced into fatherhood.

Women should not be forced into motherhood and men should not be forced into fatherhood.

But you are Okay with forcing men...

No one is forcing men into fatherhood.

But your ok with emotionally pleading they are because a lie is all you have.

 

[soylentgreen]

Forcing men into involuntary servitude to the mother of a child they did not make nor do they want is a form of abuse. Now you know.

How tragic that simple biology needs to be explained to you. It takes a male and a female to make a child.

 

[Bodi]

No one is forcing men into fatherhood.

This part is Okay...

Is Forced Fatherhood Fair?

In cases of accidental pregnancy, men now arguably have less reproductive autonomy than women.

archive.nytimes.com

But your ok with emotionally pleading they are because a lie is all you have.

This part signals you are defeated.

 

[Bodi]

Are you seriously trying for a eugenics argument? Only the rich should breed?

You are arguing that people that can not afford to raise children properly should have a child anyway?

That is child abuse.

 

[Bodi]

Big difference between an actual father and someone having their pay taxed.

And now you want to insult men that are financially supporting their children? I am not surprised that you would think such.

 

[Bodi]

I have more respect for a woman that chooses an abortion than I do for anyone that doesn’t support their kid.

The two are not even close to being the same.

so you are Okay with a person utilizing their Post Conception Opt Out pf parenthood now?

 

[trouble13]

If you really think that then you cannot possibly be anti-abortion and remain consistent.

I'm neutral on the ethical questions surrounding abortion.

 

[trouble13]

How tragic that simple biology needs to be explained to you. It takes a male and a female to make a child.

Men don't make babies. Only women can do that. Biology 101

 

[Argent]

Men don't make babies. Only women can do that. Biology 101

The womb grows the baby it does not make it. A baby cannot be conceived without sperm. Babies can be "made" in a petri dish. Reality 101.
Scientists are experimenting with artificial wombs and at some point, a human womb might not be necessary to grow the baby.

 

[Lursa]

The argument of support is not related to the rights of the parent, but the Child. The Child has the right of support from both parents. The State has an interest in this as otherwise it has to support the Child.

Why are you not addressing the fact that if she can not support the child properly on her own she can abort?

Why are you not addressing the fact that nothing, even that contract, can force her to abort and if she doesnt, since the child has the right to support, it doesnt matter what the man and woman "contracted"?

That right supersedes the contract because the statutory right of the child to support (post 237) from both parents takes precedence. That's more than "just change the law!" Society and the laws protect the best interests of the child and the taxpayers.

Your proposal is just about protecting the interests of men that knowingly chose to take a risk...and lost. How does allowing men to walk away help the child or society? Er...we have child support laws for a reason...what has changed that makes you think they should be invalidated?

Why do you continue to ignore the precedence of the child's statutory right to support? You cant dispute it, I realize that...but you should at least recognize the nail it puts in your proposal's "coffin".

 

[Lursa]

But she does not have self-autonomy if she is forcing somebody else to pay for her choice.

The state "forces" the non-custodial parent to pay for a child. It's not even up to her...if she applies for benefits or public assistance, the state/county will demand that she identify the father. And they're pretty persistent.

But I understand it's more convenient for your argument if you can blame women.

 

[Bodi]

The womb grows the baby it does not make it. A baby cannot be conceived without sperm. Babies can be "made" in a petri dish. Reality 101.
Scientists are experimenting with artificial wombs and at some point, a human womb might not be necessary to grow the baby.

... and the fisherman is a Chef because he gave a fish to a makes stuff person who made a Fish Cake.

 

[Bodi]

women that knowingly have sex and get pregnant... knowing that they can not support a child on their own... that apply to the State for assistance who then force the man into financial servitude... are weak pathetic people... forcing all these other people and groups to pay for your decision to be irresponsible overall and negligent of the child primarily... ... wow. Just WOW. It is not just seriously selfish but rampantly disgusting.

One of the main arguments about stating men should pay is that it is their action that lead to it. That can be a valid argument but it does not address the Post Conception Opt-Out of this thread. The hypocritical aspect is that the very same dipshits that argue that the man should pay for the child are the ones that also think that the woman should be able to apply for public assistance, welfare. Low income loans, grants and assistance for housing, unemployment, help with bills and food assistance. So it really is not about society having to pay for a dead beat dad because society is already paying for the dead beat mom...

Men already constitute 85% of Child Care payers

Dads Represent 85% Of Child Support Providers, Pay More Than Female Payers - Dads Divorce

Men not only make up 85% of child support payors, but when women are ordered to pay child support they get to pay much less, according to child support statistics.

dadsdivorce.com

85% of men required to pay Child Support do so...

Contact Support

Men only get custody about 35% of the time while women get it 65%.

Contact Support

Just more bullshit. Nothing about this is 'what is good for the kid' Just Man = Wallet.

That has nothing to do with dead beat or fairness or anything... just rewarding a selfish woman for being selfish.

More lack of equality? OK!

39.6% of custodial single fathers were awarded child support during the same year · 52.7% of custodial single mothers were awarded child support.

How Much Child Support the Average Single Parent Really Gets

Read child support statistics that shed light on how many single parents receive child support, how much, and how often.

www.verywellfamily.com