[W:132]Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border...

[Lursa]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

No Lursa. He said he'd pass a healthcare program "better and cheaper" than Obamacare and that it would "cover everyone". The plan he was a cheerleader for did the exact opposite. Hawkeye keeps saying that "trump is one of the last honest guys around". That's a load of crap. Trump has lied to the American people over 6,000 times as president.

Regarding the ACA, trump couldn't get the healthcare plan he promised, so he became a cheerleader for the draconian plan the GOP came up with. trump was a cheerleader for it because 1. It would overturn Obamacare and trump has been systematically trying to overturn everything Obama did because trump hates Obama for being a better president than him, and 2. it was politically expedient and would garner support from his knuckle-dragging base.

He's an obvious asshole and unapologetic for it, I'll give you that, but he's anything but "honest".

I didnt speak to any of his promises. OTOH, it's quite possible he believed he was going to do those things...after all, he was quoted as saying,'who knew health care was this complicated?'

He is/was unbelievably unprepared to be any kind of leader at all and neither he nor his staff believed he'd win.

I wrote about his projections of himself, which, intentional or not were very illuminating. For some of us.

 

[Xelor]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

So based on that you concluded that "the Wall was simply one of the things he threw out there into his crowds at campaign rallies" and he was never serious about it.
Is that right?

When Chuck E. Schumer says the Wall would be ineffective to help prevent illegal entry into the USA, did you ask yourself why it wold be ineffective? or did you just take his word for it?

Given that assertion from Trump and his (and his Congressional supporters') observed behavior noted in this thread's OP, Trump has most certainly shown that he's serious about using the wall as a political lever, not as a means to secure our border.

The whole point of the the thread is to entreat members to present cases showing that Trump is "on about" the wall not primarily for border security purposes but primarily for political ones, or alternatively, to present cases showing that Trump is "on about" the wall primarily for border security and not primarily for political purposes.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

"It’s realistic [to expect Mexico will pay for the wall] if you know something about the art of negotiating. If you have a bunch of clowns negotiating, it’s not realistic."
--*Donald Trump, July 2015

WASHINGTON — President Trump on Tuesday transformed what was to be a private negotiating session with Democratic congressional leaders into a bitter televised altercation over his long-promised border wall, vowing to force a year-end government shutdown if they refused to fund his signature campaign promise.

During an extraordinary public airing of hostilities that underscored a new, more confrontational dynamic in Washington, Mr. Trump vowed to block full funding for the government if Democrats refused to allocate money for the wall on the southwestern border, saying he was “proud to shut down the government for border security.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/11/us/politics/trump-border-wall-government-shutdown.html

Those are some negotiating skills! :lamo

 

[bubbabgone]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Given that assertion from Trump and his (and his Congressional supporters') observed behavior noted in this thread's OP, Trump has most certainly shown that he's serious about using the wall as a political lever, not as a means to secure our border. The whole point of the the thread is to present cases showing that Trump is "on about" the wall not for border security purposes but for political ones.

Was that the kind of deep thought that led you to conclude the Wall would be ineffective? Because someone else said so? If not, what was it?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

You seem to have missed the point: the thread isn't really about the wall's efficacy, nor is it about what other means of border security may or may not work, or to what extent they will or won't yield this or that measurable and economically efficient outcome.


Red:
I repeat:

These remarks which have yet to be explicitly recanted and acknowledged by their speaker as ill-conceived from the get-go.​

​

"A wall is better than fencing, and it’s much more powerful. It’s more secure. It’s taller."
-- Donald Trump, July 2015

"Jeb Bush just talked about my border proposal to build a "fence. It's not a fence, Jeb, it's a WALL, and there's a BIG difference!"
-- Donald Trump, August 2015

"It's not a fence, it's a wall. You just misreported it."
-- Donald Trump, January 2017​

"It’s realistic [to expect Mexico will pay for the wall] if you know something about the art of negotiating. If you have a bunch of clowns negotiating, it’s not realistic."
-- Donald Trump, July 2015​

Accordingly, unless and until those remarks' speaker expressly recants them and acknowledges their lunacy, "border security" and "wall" are not the same things. On multiple occasions, as shown in the OP's linked content, Trump was offered border security money and he or Congressional Republicans declined to avail themselves of the opportunity to accept it.

You seem stuck in a loop if quoting Trump.
Live in your head rent free, does he?

The whole point is the efficacy of the wall, AKA physical birder security. Something needs to be done to step the ever increasing tide of border law breakers, be it illegal aliens, drug or human smugglers or juvenile sex traffickers.

Or are you just fine with these things continuing unabated?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[JustHanging]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Gotta love all the motives attributed to Trump. :roll:

Oh come on.

When someone is such a scumbag that even though they are a billionaire, they are willing to scam desperate people out of their last pennies, and leave them deep in credit card debt, lying and deceit should be considered the norm, not the exception.

$25 million settlement finalized in Trump University lawsuit

 

[What if...?]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trumps Wall is about trying to do what he told us that he would try to do.

Trump, one of the last honest guys around.

Ima give everybody a unicorn!

Vote for me!

There is no try! Only do.

 

[ataraxia]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trumps wall may be about ego. But it is also about racism and bigotry. There is no crisis at the border requiring this level of drama and suffering. But I can see how it would be to someone with a racist worldview and mindset.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trump has as President been nearly exactly the guy he advertised himself to be, and what he has been interested in has been nearly exactly what he said that he would be interested in.

That is now rare in America, and is refreshing, usually with politicians now we get a song and a dance at Election time and in the SOTU but the words mean nothing, because it is lies.

Sorry.

A bunch of honestly advocated stupid is still stupid.

And the conman specializes in not getting caught lying until its too late for the mark.

So I am doubly unimpressed by your post.

 

[Xelor]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Trumps wall may be about ego. But it is also about racism and bigotry. There is no crisis at the border requiring this level of drama and suffering. But I can see how it would be to someone with a racist worldview and mindset.

Red:
I think racist/bigoted intent resides in Trump's mind as goes his wall proposal; however, I think that because Trump has a long and largely unbroken track record of exhibiting and expressing racist deeds and ideas. With regard to wall supporters in general, I'm only willing to think racist/bigoted intent may be among the factors motivating their approbation of the wall. I don't know or know enough about those folks to be as confident as I am re: Trump about the nature and extent of racist/bigoted intent on their part.

 

[Xelor]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Sorry.

A bunch of honestly advocated stupid is still stupid.

And the conman specializes in not getting caught lying until its too late for the mark.

So I am doubly unimpressed by your post.

 

[ataraxia]

Re: Trump's wall is about ego and having a politically efficacious talking point, not border securit

Yes. The phrases willful ignorance and proud and arrogant stupidity come to mind- making a virtue of being ignorant.