• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

Nobody can understand God fully. He is not like men and his nature cannot be fully comprehended in human terms. Don't try to use human reasoning to disprove what the Bible says about God. If Jesus and the Father are said to be one then just believe it whether you understand it or not.

I am not arguing whether or not they are as humans understand, I believe us all, Jesus included, as partxs of God, our souls, which return to the Creator or do not if deemed unfit, a true hell. We will find out all truths once we return to Him and not until then.
 
I am not arguing whether or not they are as humans understand, I believe us all, Jesus included, as partxs of God, our souls, which return to the Creator or do not if deemed unfit, a true hell. We will find out all truths once we return to Him and not until then.

You don't think the Bible is credible?
 
I've just finished watching, and how clearly it is explained:






The following are MONOTHEISTIC Statement(s) given by GOD(Old Testament) and JESUS (New Testament), showing that they are One and The Same..


THE SHEPHERD

Ezekiel 34
God, the True Shepherd

11 ‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God.
16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”





John 10
Jesus the True Shepherd

10 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.


Jesus the Good Shepherd

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.



There can only be one true Shepherd.
 
Last edited:
In Genesis 1, the concept of the Triune God is introduced.

Genesis 1

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(The Father/Creator)

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and
the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
(Holy Spirit)

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. (The WORD)



Take note that in every creation event, this phrase is used: GOD SAID.
God spoke His creation into existence.



That is explained in John 1:



John 1

The Word Became Flesh
(Jesus)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(They are One and the Same)


2 He was with God in the beginning.
(Of course. Because they're One and the Same!)

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
(because Jesus was THE WORD in the beginning - God spoke the creation into existence)
 
Last edited:
While discussing in another forum - this new revelation - a very logical evidence, came up!


It's about human sacrifice.

Was Jesus Christ a human sacrifice?


NO! Jesus was not merely human (although He was fully human when He was here on earth).
He was God, as human.

Mere humans do not perform miracles - especially raising up the dead like Lazarus.

Therefore, God did not sacrifice Jesus......but rather, God sacrificed Himself!
God did not perform the very thing that He abhors - making human sacrifices!


If you believe Jesus is not God Himself -

that would mean God had done what He abhors - He made a human sacrifice out of Jesus Christ!
 
Thanks to Spartan for this:


Ezekiel 43

God’s Glory Returns to the Temple

43 Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, 2 and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory.




Revelation 1

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.



Jesus and God are One and the Same.
 
Thanks to Aimiel for pointing me to Romans 8.



The first 3 sentences of Romans 8 also talks about Jesus and the Spirit as One.


Romans 8

Life Through the Spirit

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.


9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.



Notice how on line 12 which begins with "THEREFORE.....," - which means, "for that reason" -
the verse now talks only of THE Spirit. Line 13. ONE SPIRIT!


The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God - are One and the Same!

Romans 8 talks about the Trinity!
 
Thanks to Aimiel for pointing me to Romans 8.



The first 3 sentences of Romans 8 also talks about Jesus and the Spirit as One.


Romans 8

Life Through the Spirit

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.


9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.



Notice how on line 12 which begins with "THEREFORE.....," - which means, "for that reason" -
the verse now talks only of THE Spirit. Line 13. ONE SPIRIT!


The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God - are One and the Same!

Romans 8 talks about the Trinity!

Please cut and paste from Romans 8 where the term 'trinity' is mentioned. thanks.
 
Please cut and paste from Romans 8 where the term 'trinity' is mentioned. thanks.

It's right after the part that says Jehovah's Witnesses are a legitimate NT church.
 
It's right after the part that says Jehovah's Witnesses are a legitimate NT church.

Prove your positive claim then, please, by posting the verse with the term 'trinity' in it.. If not, clearly you are not telling the truth. your call...
 
Prove your positive claim then, please, by posting the verse with the term 'trinity' in it.. If not, clearly you are not telling the truth. your call...

Chew on this:

Matt: 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

What does that mean?
 
Chew on this:

Matt: 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

What does that mean?

Clearly it means the word 'trinity' is not mentioned in that verse. Got any verses that actually contain the term 'trinity' ? A simple YES or NO is all that is needed to fully and adequately answer the question posed.
 
Clearly it means the word 'trinity' is not mentioned in that verse. Got any verses that actually contain the term 'trinity' ? A simple YES or NO is all that is needed to fully and adequately answer the question posed.

What is the "Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost"? A singularity? A duality? No, it's a Trinity.
 
What is the "Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost"? A singularity? A duality? No, it's a Trinity.

That's an opinion only. It can also be interpreted,and has been interpreted by some, as being 3 totally different entities. Now that that has been established, I'll ask again, and if you refuse to give a YES answer, it can be safely discerned the answer is NO. Can you present any biblical verses that have the term 'trinity' in them ? YES or NO ? Being a clergy person, you do know the bible, and what words are contained in the bible, do you not ?
 
That's an opinion only. It can also be interpreted,and has been interpreted by some, as being 3 totally different entities. Now that that has been established, I'll ask again, and if you refuse to give a YES answer, it can be safely discerned the answer is NO. Can you present any biblical verses that have the term 'trinity' in them ? YES or NO ?

I am not interested in "what other people think". Their opinion renders salvation meaningless and incoherent.

You know, there is a trinity in cooking also: peppers, onions, and celery. Does that disturb you? Trinity is just a word, it's the concept that matters.

And no, you don't make the rules, I will answer as I see fit.

Now if you'll excuse me, you are wasting my time. You have your answer.
 
I am not interested in "what other people think". Their opinion renders salvation meaningless and incoherent.

You know, there is a trinity in cooking also: peppers, onions, and celery. Does that disturb you?

And no, you don't make the rules, I will answer as I see fit.

Now if you'll excuse me, you are wasting my time. You have your answer.

You interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with a 3rd party. If you wasted your time, it was by your own accord. But you did establish the term 'trinity' is NOT in any biblical scripture. I guess you get what you pay for, so to speak. And you also took a cheap shot at the JWs for whatever reason,as no one was discussing what their beliefs are. Actually a desperate and childish maneuver on your part, as it is irrelevant to what was being discussed before you interjected yourself into the convo.
 
Last edited:
You interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with a 3rd party. If you wasted your time, it was by your own accord. But you did establish the term 'trinity' is NOT in any biblical scripture. I guess you get what you pay for, so to speak.

Again, "Trinity" is just a word, the concept is what matters.

Tell me, will you find the word "trinity" in a cookbook, or is it common knowledge?

If you don't want people "interjecting", don't post on a public forum.
 
Again, "Trinity" is just a word, the concept is what matters.

Tell me, will you find the word "trinity" in a cookbook, or is it common knowledge?

If you don't want people "interjecting", don't post on a public forum.

I don't care if you interject. Just don't go crying about wasting your time when it was you who made the decision to interject yourself into other's convos. Take responsibility for your own actions, and cease with the silly whining. You're acting like you were forced to engage in other's discussions. ( you weren't ) very childish on your part.
 
You interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with a 3rd party. If you wasted your time, it was by your own accord. But you did establish the term 'trinity' is NOT in any biblical scripture. I guess you get what you pay for, so to speak. And you also took a cheap shot at the JWs for whatever reason,as no one was discussing what their beliefs are. Actually a desperate and childish maneuver on your part, as it is irrelevant to what was being discussed before you interjected yourself into the convo.

I don't know with whom you're having this so-called "conversation," but it certainly isn't with me.
I have ignored your inappropriate post.

Not only is your post so juvenile - show me where it says "Trinity" :roll:.....but, this isn't the section for it.



I don't care if you interject. Just don't go crying about wasting your time when it was you who made the decision to interject yourself into other's convos. Take responsibility for your own actions, and cease with the silly whining. You're acting like you were forced to engage in other's discussions. ( you weren't ) very childish on your part.

I don't care a hoot what you think. This thread is not open for debates.
It is posted under Theology.

As the OP had clearly said:


This thread will be for Scriptural verses (with explanations if needed, including cross-references with other verses), that clearly show Jesus and God are One and the Same.

I am expressing my own religious belief - and supporting them with verses that I find from the Bible.

If you want to challenge the belief about the Trinity - create your own thread in the
appropriate section of the forum.
 
Last edited:
I don't know with whom you're having this so-called "conversation," but it certainly isn't with me.
I have ignored your inappropriate post.





I don't care a hoot what you think. This thread is not open for debates.
It is posted under Theology.

As the OP had clearly said:


This thread will be for Scriptural verses (with explanations if needed, including cross-references with other verses), that clearly show Jesus and God are One and the Same.

I am expressing my own religious belief - and supporting them with verses that I find from the Bible.

If you want to challenge the belief about the Trinity - create your own thread in the
appropriate section of the forum.

Re-visit post numbers 42 and 43, 48.49.50, and tell us you weren't engaging in debate. That said, I will step aside, and you can proceed to do as you please in your thread. Have a good day.
 
Re-visit post numbers 42 and 43, 48.49.50, and tell us you weren't engaging in debate. That said, I will step aside, and you can proceed to do as you please in your thread. Have a good day.

Those weren't really debates.
Unlike what you do - those posters questioned, which is okay (and I explained), BUT they
did not pursue the arguments any farther. So, there.


Have a good day.
 
Last edited:
Those weren't really debates.
Unlike what you do - those posters questioned, which is okay (and I explained), BUT they
did not pursue the arguments any farther. So, there.


Have a good day.

You're now doing exactly what you stated you didn't want done. ( derailing your own thread after I told you I would step aside ). If you're really going to be consistent, you should be calling out IJM also, as it was he who interjected himself into the convo and engaged in starting a debate by making an irrelevant comment about JWs, something you stated this thread was not designed for. Correct ?
 
Last edited:
Couldn't help yourself, eh bud? Look where you're at and note the rules. She's doing what this space was designed for, you are in the wrong. Boring day on the "We atheists are super smart" sub forum? :lol:

Bye.

It's designed for boring blogs?
 
That's an opinion only. It can also be interpreted,and has been interpreted by some, as being 3 totally different entities. Now that that has been established, I'll ask again, and if you refuse to give a YES answer, it can be safely discerned the answer is NO. Can you present any biblical verses that have the term 'trinity' in them ? YES or NO ? Being a clergy person, you do know the bible, and what words are contained in the bible, do you not ?

Were the Bee Gees a trinity?
 
Were the Bee Gees a trinity?

Not in my humble opinion. Just 3 extremely very talented musicians who put forth a helluva lot of great songs that will be listened to for a very long time. Now if you ask the same question about the Supremes, I guess a religious person may have a differing opinion.
 
Back
Top Bottom