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[W:1][W:11][W:368] Russia invades Ukraine: Live Thread

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bave said:
Again, find me a military expert who doesn't think the West provoked Russia in Ukraine. Find me one, seriously.
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Oh its far and away more than that.

141 countries voted to condemn Russia's invasion.
5 opposed. Belarus, Russia, North Korea, among them.


bave said:
I would keep in mind that ~half the worlds population did not vote to condemn the invasion. India and China both abstained.
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Two countries that both have interests in trying to play nice with Russia? Say it isn't so. And both spoke out against it coyly, but abstained...if you want to count absitence as on your side, you've lost.
 
Nomad4Ever said:
The US and NATO didn't dangle anything. That's not how NATO works. You apply to join NATO and NATO chooses to accept you or not. Ukraine is the one who wanted to join NATO.
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What does how one joins NATO have to do with it?
 
bave said:
Again, find me a military expert who doesn't think the West provoked Russia in Ukraine. Find me one, seriously.
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Careful. Surely there are military and Russian history experts that have differing views.
 
Antiwar said:
What does how one joins NATO have to do with it?
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Well, if NATO was like invading/strong arming or pressuring countries to join it vs countries joining because they feel it is in their best interest....well I think there is a very big difference.
 
bave said:
I would keep in mind that ~half the worlds population did not vote to condemn the invasion. India and China both abstained.
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That will change soon, at least when it comes to India. There are just some things you can't stay neutral over. Targeting and bombing maternity hospitals is one such thing.
 
Nomad4Ever said:
Well, if NATO was like invading/strong arming or pressuring countries to join it vs countries joining because they feel it is in their best interest....well I think there is a very big difference.
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When you phrase it that way, yeah. But I don't think anyone phrased it that way.
 
Juks said:
Great!!!! Hope the Ukrainians use it in Mariupol and take the city back so people can survive.
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Are you an environmentalist, at all?
 
Antiwar said:
Are you an environmentalist, at all?
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If a flower could stop those bombs from at this moment killing babies and pregnant women, I would go for flowers, If they can't I will not sacrifice those babies and women for a principle. I am not like you. I see nothing wrong in shooting down those bombs heading for hospitals and residantial appartments.

But if we could get a society without those bombs, or were those bombs were banned, I am al for it.
 
Juks said:
That will change soon, at least when it comes to India. There are just some things you can't stay neutral over. Targeting and bombing maternity hospitals is one such thing.
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Disagree - India has a long history with Russia going back to their Independence
Many weapons systems,parts etc came from Russia

US is weaning India towards the Quad in the Indo Pacific -link below
India still purchases weapons from Russia
US needs India as a counterweight to China

If the US Congress sanctions India for purchasing Russian weapon systems, at worst,they drive cooperation out the window,
at best it slows it by years

www.cfr.org

The Quad in the Indo-Pacific: What to Know

The Quad, composed of the United States, Australia, India, and Japan, is not a formal alliance. Still, the group has intensified its security and economic ties as tensions with China rise.
www.cfr.org www.cfr.org
 
Juks said:
If a flower could stop those bombs from at this moment killing babies and pregnant women, I would go for flowers, If they can't I will not sacrifice those babies and women for a principle. I am not like you. I see nothing wrong in shooting down those bombs heading for hospitals and residantial appartments.

But if we could get a society without those bombs, or were those bombs were banned, I am al for it.
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I guess I was wondering if ~everyone's emotions are so high that another very high priority is being ignored.

And the militarism paradigm really ****s up the habitable planet paradigm. Do you think you'll be in favor of the militarism paradigm for the rest of your life?
 
bave said:
Again, find me a military expert who doesn't think the West provoked Russia in Ukraine. Find me one, seriously.
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Why, when we have such luminaries and military experts as you?
bave said:
Now, imagine if China destabilized Mexico, illegally installed a new government
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Why imagine such stupid scenario? What was illegal about the election in Ukraine?
bave said:
that was Pro-China, allowed Chinese troops into the country, and they entered into a strategic military alliance. Do you think that would be provactive?
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What foreign troops were allowed in the Ukraine?
bave said:
I am not agreeing with anyone
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Right you are just making stupid excuses based on stupid premises.
bave said:
I am simply seeing both sides and seeing how we got here.
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Actually you have no clue.
 
What happens if Russia manages to kill or capture the president of Ukraine? Do the Ukrainians lose their will for the resistance or do they keep fighting?
 
ChickenTendies said:
It was a provocation then and it's a provocation now. Putin wants buffer states between the West and Russia, and the US knew that yet it still dangled the promises of NATO membership to Ukraine, drawing the ire of the Russians, while leaving Ukraine hanging in the end. Pushing ever more countries into NATO and taking them from Russia's sphere of influence, purposefully and deliberately isolating Russia. The open support of NATO for the Euromaidan movement, largely driven by far-right groups, is not a provocation?
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Your argument is "brutal, religious, expansionist autocrat wants obedience, violent consequences of not giving obedience are victims' fault."

And you haven't perished of shame how?
 
JANFU said:
Disagree - India has a long history with Russia going back to their Independence
Many weapons systems,parts etc came from Russia

US is weaning India towards the Quad in the Indo Pacific -link below
India still purchases weapons from Russia
US needs India as a counterweight to China

If the US Congress sanctions India for purchasing Russian weapon systems, at worst,they drive cooperation out the window,
at best it slows it by years

www.cfr.org

The Quad in the Indo-Pacific: What to Know

The Quad, composed of the United States, Australia, India, and Japan, is not a formal alliance. Still, the group has intensified its security and economic ties as tensions with China rise.
www.cfr.org www.cfr.org
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I am not talking about sanctions towards India. I don't know why you think I did. I am talking about India changing view. The bold: Strange statements, do you mean that it is the US that desides Indias foreign policy?

You are correct in that the relations between India and Russia probably is deeper than what the papers show, but Russia is commiting war crimes (big times).
 
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