Voter fraud is a myth (1 Viewer)

[Ikari]

Do you oppose Voter ID laws?

What does that have to do with the price of bread? Can you stay on target? 64.25 cases of voter fraud/year (according to Grim). How does that threaten the integrity of our elections?

I vote in Colorado, I vote by mail in every election. We don't have rampant fraud.

 

[beefheart]

The only people who claim there is a fetish about guns are far lefties who hate the fact that gun rights advocates vote against left-wingers. And the thread is not about guns but rather the hypocrisy of people like you who whine about vote fraud not being prevalent enough to take action, but are more than happy to support laws that harass conservatives when you can

 

[Ikari]

It should be asked: Who does the fact-finding to determine whether vote fraud occurred on a wide scale? What if the people doing the investigations are themselves the beneficiaries of voter fraud, ballot elimination, or ballot stuffing?

The States have agents to look into this.

You either have the data or you don't. You cannot make up data because the data on hand doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[beefheart]

It should be asked: Who does the fact-finding to determine whether vote fraud occurred on a wide scale? What if the people doing the investigations are themselves the beneficiaries of voter fraud, ballot elimination, or ballot stuffing? Like a District Attorney or an Attorney General who is able to select who he or she wants to investigate the matter?

OMG, what if they are shape shifting aliens!!!!11!!

 

[TurtleDude]

Again, more hyperbolic bilge....look at you attempting to divert a thread by talking about something that happened 50 years ago..and making anecdotal unsourced claims about...whatever.

Give it up. Focus more.

why don't you can the arrogant nonsense and quit pretending you are the arbiter of what is proper on this board. Your posts are sanctimonious and silly. Voter fraud is a well known leftwing tactic. A Democrat was just busted for vote fraud.
Election fraud case sparks renewed accusations about ballot security in Philadelphia

 

[TurtleDude]

The States have agents to look into this.

You either have the data or you don't. You cannot make up data because the data on hand doesn't say what you want it to say.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

 

[Felis Leo]

The States have agents to look into this.

You either have the data or you don't. You cannot make up data because the data on hand doesn't say what you want it to say.

Well there is the problem, isn't it?

Either you believe our elections are free and fair or you don't. Everyone believes elections are free and fair when they go their way. But do you believe that they are free and fair when they go against you? That is where we see just how strong a system is.

 

[Jay59]

Voter Fraud, as the studies show, this is clearly a myth. The stragety is to gin up fraud allegations to justify Voter ID laws. Voter fraud is so insignificant that it does not affect the outcome of national elections. However, Republicans voter suppression methods do affect the outcome of elections.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...le-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/
Who Can Vote? - A News21 2012 National Project
Voter fraud is not a persistent problem - Voting Wars: Rights | Power | Privilege
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ts-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/
http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Politics_of_Voter_Fraud_Final.pdf
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/elj.2013.0231
https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665966.pdf
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
https://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/facpubs/2165/
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/analysis-noncitizen-voting-vanishingly-rare
Court opinion: “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20
million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/2016.07.20_En Banc Opinion.pdf
Court opinion: “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing inperson voter fraud in North Carolina.”
http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/nc-4th.pdf
Court opinion: “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely
rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of
Wisconsin’s elections.”
https://www.aclu.org/legal-document...=legal-document/frank-v-walker-motion-granted
Supreme Court opinion: “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually
occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” They upheld, but later, after the ruling, they stated they regretted their ruling.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-21.ZO.html
This film, "Rigged, The Voter Suppression Playbook" tells the complete tale of Republicans voter suppression techniques.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07P76KK1S/ref=atv_dl_rdr?autoplay=1

The propaganda machine is in full gear. Same song, 244th verse.

 

[beefheart]

why don't you can the arrogant nonsense and quit pretending you are the arbiter of what is proper on this board. Your posts are sanctimonious and silly. Voter fraud is a well known leftwing tactic. A Democrat was just busted for vote fraud.
Election fraud case sparks renewed accusations about ballot security in Philadelphia

Fear based wank. Statistically speaking, voter fraud in America is non-existent. You know this, but you choose to continue to ramp up the idiotic rhetoric that your man-baby cult leader tells you to do.

 

[Felis Leo]

OMG, what if they are shape shifting aliens!!!!11!!

One never truly knows.

 

[Ikari]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf

1000 cases of fraud...out of what? That's even less that Grim was trying to push. 1000 cases, the last Presidential election had 138,847,000 votes. So even if these 1000 cases happened all at once in one election (your source goes back to 2000, BTW) that's 0.0007% fraud. Is that swinging an election?

You bring me 1000 cases in 20 years scattered over the 50 states, and expect me to say "Holy **** this is such a problem!!!!"? Prosecute those 1000 cases for sure, but 1000 votes ain't changing the election. It's not threatening the integrity of the election.

 

[Ikari]

Well there is the problem, isn't it?

Either you believe our elections are free and fair or you don't. Everyone believes elections are free and fair when they go their way. But do you believe that they are free and fair when they go against you? That is where we see just how strong a system is.

There's a 0.00005% problem, yes. Prosecute it. But don't pretend that this is somehow changing the course of our elections. I do believe in free and fair elections, which is why I support a system like CO where mail-in ballots are the standard.

 

[TurtleDude]

1000 cases of fraud...out of what? That's even less that Grim was trying to push. 1000 cases, the last Presidential election had 138,847,000 votes. So even if these 1000 cases happened all at once in one election (your source goes back to 2000, BTW) that's 0.0007% fraud. Is that swinging an election?

You bring me 1000 cases in 20 years scattered over the 50 states, and expect me to say "Holy **** this is such a problem!!!!"? Prosecute those 1000 cases for sure, but 1000 votes ain't changing the election. It's not threatening the integrity of the election.

Given your vast prosecutorial experience, what do you think the amount of actual cases is compared to those that resulted in a conviction?

 

[TurtleDude]

Fear based wank. Statistically speaking, voter fraud in America is non-existent. You know this, but you choose to continue to ramp up the idiotic rhetoric that your man-baby cult leader tells you to do.

Credible proof required.

 

[beefheart]

Given your vast prosecutorial experience, what do you think the amount of actual cases is compared to those that resulted in a conviction?

Would you fly on an airplane if there was a 0.00005% chance of it crashing?

You are trying to make a mountain out of an amoeba hill.

 

[Ikari]

Given your vast prosecutorial experience, what do you think the amount of actual cases is compared to those that resulted in a conviction?

Bring me the data. Don't sit there and try to pretend that 1000 votes over 20 years scattered over the 50 states in all different levels of election is somehow threatening the Presidential elections. Let me know when you have actual data to back your point.

 

[Felis Leo]

There's a 0.00005% problem, yes. Prosecute it. But don't pretend that this is somehow changing the course of our elections. I do believe in free and fair elections, which is why I support a system like CO where mail-in ballots are the standard.

I agree with you, Ikari. I do not think that voter fraud is an overwhelming problem currently.

To repeat what I posted before:

When Republicans lose elections to Democrats, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter fraud, voter fraud!" without little to no evidence to back it up.

And when Democrats lose elections to Republicans, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter suppression, voter suppression!" with little to no evidence to back it up.

It is arrogant post-hoc excuse making and a back-handed attempt to strip political opponents of the honor and legitimacy of having won a free and open election. Anyone who claims "voter fraud" or "voter suppression" is literally thinking "There is no way that the majority of my constituents would be stupid enough to vote for the other side in an election. I am just far too likable on a personal level and my beliefs and political program are second to none. The other side must have cheated!"

Anyone who whines "Voter Fraud!" or "Voter Suppression" without clear and convincing evidence should have this mantra repeated to them: You lost. You lost because you are not as popular as you thought you were, and more people voted for the Republican/Democrat candidate than they did for you. Get over it, rethink your strategies, behave like an adult, and stop trying to undermine the legitimacy of our elections you sopping child.

 

[beefheart]

Bring me the data. Don't sit there and try to pretend that 1000 votes over 20 years scattered over the 50 states in all different levels of election is somehow threatening the Presidential elections. Let me know when you have actual data to back your point.

He won't admit to anyone that he absolutely has bupkis when it comes to backing up any data. He is here to spread fear and disinformation, and to attempt to divert the topic of this thread, because the truth is very inconvenient to his propaganda aims.

 

[Ikari]

I agree with you, Ikari. I do not think that voter fraud is an overwhelming problem currently.

To repeat what I posted before:

When Republicans lose elections to Democrats, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter fraud, voter fraud!" without little to no evidence to back it up.

And when Democrats lose elections to Republicans, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter suppression, voter suppression!" with little to no evidence to back it up.

It is arrogant post-hoc excuse making and a back-handed attempt to strip political opponents of the honor and legitimacy of having won a free and open election. Anyone who claims "voter fraud" or "voter suppression" is literally thinking "There is no way that the majority of my constituents would be stupid enough to vote for the other side in an election. I am just far too likable on a personal level and my beliefs and political program are second to none. The other side must have cheated!"

Anyone who whines "Voter Fraud!" or "Voter Suppression" without clear and convincing evidence should have this mantra repeated to them: You lost. You lost because you are not as popular as you thought you were, and more people voted for the Republican/Democrat candidate than they did for you. Get over it, rethink your strategies, behave like an adult, and stop trying to undermine the legitimacy of our elections you sopping child.

People shout all sorts of things. Hillary tried to blame Bernie supporters. Doesn't mean it was real.

Colorado has a great system of mail-in voting for all elections without rampant fraud. This is as free and fair as it can get. There is no proof that voter fraud is a threat to the integrity of our elections, and until there is proof of it, I don't think there is rational argument to restrict voting and make it more difficult.

 

[OscarLevant]

Why don't you care about the integrity of our elections!!!???

Question has a false premise.

Two facts:

1. Voter fraud does not occur in large enough numbers to affect presidential elections, and, as such, Voter ID laws are a fix in search of a problem.

2 Republican voter suppression methods do in fact result in more than enough votes suppressed to affect outcomes far more than fraud occurs, which does not affect outcomes.

Voter ID laws disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters, while, at best, finding or preventing a handful of fraudulent voters.

Therefore, if you truly were concerned about the integrity of elections, you would value the concept increasing the number of voters to include the many hundreds of thousands who had their votes purged, spoiled, caged, or otherwise lost because of what Voter ID policies actually do.

What they do NOT do is what you think they do, and the only way you can fully understand this is to watch the film

"Rigged, The Voter Suppression Playbook".
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07P76KK1S/ref=atv_dl_rdr?autoplay=1

He's a small segment from the above film, a minute long clip of Republican Operatives admitting the true reason they do Voter ID

 

[OscarLevant]

The propaganda machine is in full gear. Same song, 244th verse.

Incompetent rebuttal

 

[OscarLevant]

I agree in part and disagree in part.

When Republicans lose elections to Democrats, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter fraud, voter fraud!" without little to no evidence to back it up.

And when Democrats lose elections to Republicans, a small but loud minority begins to cry "voter suppression, voter suppression!" with little to no evidence to back it up.

Not this democrat ( nor would I say that about all election losses, though I would in the Trump election)

This film is about an hour long, and goes in to great deal, doing precisely that, 'backing it up'.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07P76KK1S/ref=atv_dl_rdr?autoplay=1

I posted an in depth OP on this ( on another forum ) so, 'backing it up' once, again.

Voter fraud is a myth | PoliticalForum.com - Forum for US and Intl Politics

The big reason I posted the in depth at PF is that they don't have 5000 character limit, which is nice.

 

[Captain Adverse]

It's the preferred method to make things tedious. CO doesn't have massive voter fraud and our standard is mail-in ballots. So obviously it can be done and done well. It's 2020, there's no reason we can't do this.

See, the problem with this assertion is that you don't really know that for certain. You just assume there isn't any problem because none has been pointed out to date.

Yet the fact is that in many cases as listed in my post no one thought there was a problem anywhere else either. That is, until something caused someone to notice and an investigation proved otherwise. :shrug:

 

[BrotherFease]

There's a 0.00005% problem, yes. Prosecute it. But don't pretend that this is somehow changing the course of our elections. I do believe in free and fair elections, which is why I support a system like CO where mail-in ballots are the standard.

People can complain about voter fraud, but at the end of the day, what is their solution?

Mandatory photo ID? That just leads to people getting fake IDs.

No voter-by-mail, except if you're student, elderly or work in the WH? Whose to say people cannot pretend to be a student or over the age of 60 or a WH worker and cast an illegal ballot?

I would much prefer if they came up with adjustments to the current methods of voting, not take away the methods. I really like finger printing or having notary verify the ballot.

 

[gdgyva]

Voter fraud is so insignificant that it does not affect the outcome of national elections.

However, Republicans voter suppression methods do affect the outcome of elections.

(snipped)

A few things based on those two sentences

1. How do we really know....without checking ID's you have NO IDEA who actually cast a ballot...just who said they cast a ballot....and all of the studies i have seen have used the same basic crap hypothesis....well crap in, you get crap out

Lets see a precinct where the ID's are checked and compare to prior elections....and lets do random ones in random states around the country....and let a non biased group that both D & R can agree on conduct such a study. Lets see about 300 precincts in total....averaging 6 per state...more in the big states and less in the smaller ones, and REALLY see if there is an issue....or does this scare you?

I want every state to give a FREE ID that can be used for voting to every person over 18 if they dont already have a valid ID like a drivers license....and they MUST have that ID present when they go to vote....PERIOD....

no POLL TAX...but a real ID that can be used for everything they need...cashing checks, voting, etc....

hell...i would even start the campaign to RAISE the money to pay for it all