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Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain

danarhea

danarhea

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A very interesting site, and guess what else? They have in their possession declassified documents which prove what they are saying - That John McCain, after being captured, cracked, and gave out military information which resulted in quite a few pilots being shot down over North Vietnam. In return for this information, McCain was given relative comfort, compared to the other POW's.

John McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
 
danarhea said:
A very interesting site, and guess what else? They have in their possession declassified documents which prove what they are saying - That John McCain, after being captured, cracked, and gave out military information which resulted in quite a few pilots being shot down over North Vietnam. In return for this information, McCain was given relative comfort, compared to the other POW's.

John McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
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Not to outright discount what they say or what proof they have, but I wonder why the hell this is the first time the American public has heard about this... has all this been in a closet or basement and just now being aired? Has this been classified information that's just now being declassified?

The little cynic in my brain is going.... hmmmmm
 
reaganburch said:
Not to outright discount what they say or what proof they have, but I wonder why the hell this is the first time the American public has heard about this... has all this been in a closet or basement and just now being aired? Has this been classified information that's just now being declassified?

The little cynic in my brain is going.... hmmmmm
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They do have declassified US intelligence documents on their site, which back up the charges.
 
danarhea said:
They do have declassified US intelligence documents on their site, which back up the charges.
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Ok... now, the next question(s) would be....

When were they declassified? If just recently, why now and by whom? And for what purpose?
 
reaganburch said:
Ok... now, the next question(s) would be....

When were they declassified? If just recently, why now and by whom? And for what purpose?
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Does it matter? They were declassified, and they show that McCain cracked within a couple of days and gave up his brothers. McCain would have you believe that he was tortured for 5 years and stayed strong. Nothing could be further from the truth. After he was taken to the hospital, he lived the rest of his captivity in relative comfort, while others continued to suffer because they still held out.

So in the end, it does not matter what the motivations were for declassifying the information. What does matter is that McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

So my answer to you is two words - Straw man.
 
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danarhea said:
A very interesting site, and guess what else? They have in their possession declassified documents which prove what they are saying - That John McCain, after being captured, cracked, and gave out military information which resulted in quite a few pilots being shot down over North Vietnam. In return for this information, McCain was given relative comfort, compared to the other POW's.

John McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
Click to expand...

Very, very interesting. I may have to do further research on this. Thanks for posting this, danarhea!
 
danarhea said:
Does it matter? They were declassified, and they show that McCain cracked within a couple of days and gave up his brothers. McCain would have you believe that he was tortured for 5 years and stayed strong. Nothing could be further from the truth. After he was taken to the hospital, he lived the rest of his captivity in relative comfort, while others continued to suffer because they still held out.

So in the end, it does not matter what the motivations were for declassifying the information. What does matter is that McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

So my answer to you is two words - Straw man.
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With all due respect, Dan, it's not a straw man. Why? Because I'm not discounting the facts in the story.... That could ALL be true and until I read through it all, I'm not going to give an opinion one way or the other.

What I'm stating is a second issue/question separate from the facts in the story... Why, now, is all of this coming to light? Seriously, I'm curious. Who is behind it? Obama? Clinton? Paul? Bush? Who has the stroke to get this classified information out... now... Because THAT could help me decide on who to vote for now, too...

Again, everything in the story COULD be true... BUT, I still would like to know why all of this is coming out NOW...
 
reaganburch said:
With all due respect, Dan, it's not a straw man. Why? Because I'm not discounting the facts in the story.... That could ALL be true and until I read through it all, I'm not going to give an opinion one way or the other.

What I'm stating is a second issue/question separate from the facts in the story... Why, now, is all of this coming to light? Seriously, I'm curious. Who is behind it? Obama? Clinton? Paul? Bush? Who has the stroke to get this classified information out... now... Because THAT could help me decide on who to vote for now, too...

Again, everything in the story COULD be true... BUT, I still would like to know why all of this is coming out NOW...
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The information has been out there for a while, but McCain has been the darling of the mainstream media for many years.

I do appreciate the fact that you are willing to read the links. Do it with an unbiased mind, as I believe you will, then tell me what you think after reading the transcripts of the declassified information.
 
danarhea said:
The information has been out there for a while, but McCain has been the darling of the mainstream media for many years.

I do appreciate the fact that you are willing to read the links. Do it with an unbiased mind, as I believe you will, then tell me what you think after reading the transcripts of the declassified information.
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Oh, I will... I want to know about this to be sure.

I'm definately not a pro-McCain hyper-partisan so I won't be blind to facts. The unclassifying infomation thing makes my eyebrow raise significantly and it brings to my mind other questions, but facts are facts and evidence is evidence...
 
reaganburch said:
Oh, I will... I want to know about this to be sure.

I'm definately not a pro-McCain hyper-partisan so I won't be blind to facts. The unclassifying infomation thing makes my eyebrow raise significantly and it brings to my mind other questions, but facts are facts and evidence is evidence...
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And of course, there will be other questions to be asked, in regards to the motivation that made these files public, but the files themselves don't lie.

Here is one of the more interesting transcripts.
 
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After reading these "reports" I must say I am skeptical. I have never seen military reports written in what almost seems to be "storybook" fashion. I doubt their validity.
 
”Apparently McCain had broken both arms and one leg, and had sunk to the bottom, but they pulled him out of the lake.

“When they got to the bank, a couple of men attacked McCain, breaking his shoulder with a rifle butt and stabbing his leg, before Mr On stopped them."
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Standby for rant...

The next time any of you are shot down over Vietnam, fall unconscience into a lake, break both your arms and one leg, have your shoulder broken with a rifle butt, get stabbed in the leg and then are dragged into a Vietnamese prison camp and held for over four years you let me know so I can tell you to your face that you aren't a war hero.

This is unbelievable mud-slinging at its worse. You haven't the faintest clue what McCain went through over there. War is ****ing hell and anyone who fights in one is a hero, regardless of their capacity or amount of pain they withstood. You people disgust me. How many of you have served in a combat zone? How many of you know what it's like?

This is Swiftboat Veterans all over again. Absolutely repugnant. Just witnessing the zeal with which you rabid partisans drool over a possible way to besmirch McCain's service to his country is reprehensible. I do not plan on voting for McCain but I am not arrogant enough to question his service to this country. EVERYONE who fought in Vietnam is a war hero. McCain is no exception. He's experienced more pain than you will ever know, and until you've served in a combat zone don't even dream of judging his actions. ***-holes...

Rant finished.
 
danarhea said:
And of course, there will be other questions to be asked, in regards to the motivation that made these files public, but the files themselves don't lie.

Here is one of the more interesting transcripts.
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You call a report on propaganda pieces distributed by North Vietnames news "declassified documents" worthy of swiftboating a decorated war hero? That's just low.

I also find it interesting when I read the fax stamp at the top. It comes from Task Force Omega...not any government authority. I'm not even sure the document is authentic. If it were authentic, one would think it would have come out long before now...people delve deeply into senator's lives too.

Hopper is a deranged zealot looking for someone to blame for his son's death. This is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing but an aged man's final attention whoring throes and wilfull dessimination of falsehoods.
 
Ethereal said:
Standby for rant...

The next time any of you are shot down over Vietnam, fall unconscience into a lake, break both your arms and one leg, have your shoulder broken with a rifle butt, get stabbed in the leg and then are dragged into a Vietnamese prison camp and held for over four years you let me know so I can tell you to your face that you aren't a war hero.

This is unbelievable mud-slinging at its worse. You haven't the faintest clue what McCain went through over there. War is ****ing hell and anyone who fights in one is a hero, regardless of their capacity or amount of pain they withstood. You people disgust me. How many of you have served in a combat zone? How many of you know what it's like?

This is Swiftboat Veterans all over again. Absolutely repugnant. Just witnessing the zeal with which you rabid partisans drool over a possible way to besmirch McCain's service to his country is reprehensible. I do not plan on voting for McCain but I am not arrogant enough to question his service to this country. EVERYONE who fought in Vietnam is a war hero. McCain is no exception. He's experienced more pain than you will ever know, and until you've served in a combat zone don't even dream of judging his actions. ***-holes...

Rant finished.
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BRAVO!!!!! :applaud:applaud:applaud
 
WI Crippler said:
After reading these "reports" I must say I am skeptical. I have never seen military reports written in what almost seems to be "storybook" fashion. I doubt their validity.
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This was kinda my reaction on reading. I can't say for sure they are real or not, I have now way of knowing for sure, and as such, await further information. However, they feel wrong, in a number of ways that is hard to really explain. I really hope this is not another Swiftboat type thing, but it sure feels that way to me right now.
 
WI Crippler said:
After reading these "reports" I must say I am skeptical. I have never seen military reports written in what almost seems to be "storybook" fashion. I doubt their validity.
Click to expand...




They are nonsense and all this thread does is demonstrate the hypocrisy of the TS.... Shame.
 
Redress said:
This was kinda my reaction on reading. I can't say for sure they are real or not, I have now way of knowing for sure, and as such, await further information. However, they feel wrong, in a number of ways that is hard to really explain. I really hope this is not another Swiftboat type thing, but it sure feels that way to me right now.
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Its the very same group.
 
danarhea said:
A very interesting site, and guess what else? They have in their possession declassified documents which prove what they are saying - That John McCain, after being captured, cracked, and gave out military information which resulted in quite a few pilots being shot down over North Vietnam. In return for this information, McCain was given relative comfort, compared to the other POW's.

John McCain is not the war hero he claims to be.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain.
Click to expand...

vauge posted a video about these guys a while ago. Thanks for bringing it back up.
 
These guys make me want to vote for McCain just to spite them.
 
WI Crippler said:
These guys make me want to vote for McCain just to spite them.
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The whole thing is that these guys are up in arms about John McCain because they believe he has some obligation to support their cause specifically. When he didn't do that, they formed their little attack group for the sole purpose of undermining his heroism.

It's really sickening to see how pathetic they are and the way they travel around with no other purpose than to slander and libel a war vet just like them.
 
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