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VETPAC Aims to Sink the Swiftboats in 2006

danarhea

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VETPAC, along with an organization called Band of Brothers, held a rally today in Washington DC to raise money to sink those who swiftboated John Murtha. These buttheads, and that is exactly what they are, had the gall to say, that in service to the United States of America, Murtha was not wounded enough for his sacrifice to our nation to be duly recognized. This was their response to Murtha's genuine political position on Iraq. Did they question his beliefs and arguments? No. Instead they slandered him, and this is about to come back to bite them all, right on the keester.

I will still not vote for a Democrat - Not now - Not ever. However, I applaud their efforts. Today, they fielded 50 candidates they are going to run for Congress, and VETPAC is going to be an integral part of the fund raising effort. Come this fall, their stockpile of political ammo is going to be used, right down to the very last round. Whether that changes any electoral outcomes is still up in the air, but make no mistake - The Swiftboats are going to be sunk - Permanently.

Here is the website for VETPAC.

Here is the website for Veterans for a Secure America.
 

Navy Pride

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danarhea said:
VETPAC, along with an organization called Band of Brothers, held a rally today in Washington DC to raise money to sink those who swiftboated John Murtha. These buttheads, and that is exactly what they are, had the gall to say, that in service to the United States of America, Murtha was not wounded enough for his sacrifice to our nation to be duly recognized. This was their response to Murtha's genuine political position on Iraq. Did they question his beliefs and arguments? No. Instead they slandered him, and this is about to come back to bite them all, right on the keester.

I will still not vote for a Democrat - Not now - Not ever. However, I applaud their efforts. Today, they fielded 50 candidates they are going to run for Congress, and VETPAC is going to be an integral part of the fund raising effort. Come this fall, their stockpile of political ammo is going to be used, right down to the very last round. Whether that changes any electoral outcomes is still up in the air, but make no mistake - The Swiftboats are going to be sunk - Permanently.

Here is the website for VETPAC.

Here is the website for Veterans for a Secure America.
Because someone served in the military does not mean they will make a good politician....Look at "Lurch" Kerry for example.......
 

danarhea

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Navy Pride said:
Because someone served in the military does not mean they will make a good politician....Look at "Lurch" Kerry for example.......
We are not talking about Kerry. We are talking about Murtha, who unlike Kerry, served in the Marine Corp. We are talking about Murtha, who during the ABSCAM scandal that got many politicians indicted, walked away from the bribes that were offered him, and testified against 2 members who he knew were taking bribes. We are talking about Murtha, who backed Bush all the way in Afghanistan, and until last year, backed Bush in Iraq.

Murtha is no flip flopper. He is the real McCoy, who says it like he sees it. Also, many of those attending the rally were fellow Marines, who look at the attack on Murtha as an attack on the Marine Corp itself. The Swiftboaters picked the wrong guy to pick a fight with this time.
 

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danarhea said:
We are not talking about Kerry. We are talking about Murtha, who unlike Kerry, served in the Marine Corp. We are talking about Murtha, who during the ABSCAM scandal that got many politicians indicted, walked away from the bribes that were offered him, and testified against 2 members who he knew were taking bribes. We are talking about Murtha, who backed Bush all the way in Afghanistan, and until last year, backed Bush in Iraq.

Murtha is no flip flopper. He is the real McCoy, who says it like he sees it. Also, many of those attending the rally were fellow Marines, who look at the attack on Murtha as an attack on the Marine Corp itself. The Swiftboaters picked the wrong guy to pick a fight with this time.

The SWIFTBOAT vets are honorable decorated veterans who saw Kerry for what he really is...........As far as Murtha goes I know of no attack by them on his military record although I have heard that of his 37 years military service only 4 was on active duty and the rest was in the reserves.......
 

aps

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Navy Pride said:
The SWIFTBOAT vets are honorable decorated veterans who saw Kerry for what he really is...........As far as Murtha goes I know of no attack by them on his military record although I have heard that of his 37 years military service only 4 was on active duty and the rest was in the reserves.......
Oh, so the value of someone's service, which involved being in Vietnam and engaging in combat, is somehow lessened as a result of being on active duty for "only 4" years and on reserve duty for 33 years. I had no idea.
 

danarhea

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aps said:
Oh, so the value of someone's service, which involved being in Vietnam and engaging in combat, is somehow lessened as a result of being on active duty for "only 4" years and on reserve duty for 33 years. I had no idea.
Its the way they are. They have no shame at all. Only a year ago, they were praising Murtha because he was supporting Bush on Iraq. Now that he isnt, they have decided to slander him. This isnt supporting the troops.

For instance, here is this hypothetical......

"It doesnt matter that this guy was killed in Vietnam, and got the Congressional Medal of Honor. He was only in the service for a few months before he died. Therefore, his service is diddly squat." Basically, that is the same kind of argument they are making about Murtha, carried to the extreme, of course, but against flat out extremists who love to lie, no argument is too extreme.
 

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danarhea said:
Its the way they are. They have no shame at all. Only a year ago, they were praising Murtha because he was supporting Bush on Iraq. Now that he isnt, they have decided to slander him. This isnt supporting the troops.

For instance, here is this hypothetical......

"It doesnt matter that this guy was killed in Vietnam, and got the Congressional Medal of Honor. He was only in the service for a few months before he died. Therefore, his service is diddly squat." Basically, that is the same kind of argument they are making about Murtha, carried to the extreme, of course, but against flat out extremists who love to lie, no argument is too extreme.
Frankly, any veteran who trashes another veteran is an a$$hole in my book. I thought the whole thing with attacking Kerry's service was pathetic. Kerry is certainly not perfect, but he went and served our country. "Oh, but he was a wimp and he got himself 3 Purple Hearts so he could get out." Blah blah blah blah. I don't care. He served our country, and he was not dishonorably discharged or discharged under "other than honorable" conditions. I don't know how those veterans (who are all republicans, I believe) sleep at night.
 

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backed Bush all the way in Afghanistan, and until last year, backed Bush in Iraq.

Murtha is no flip flopper.
I'm sorry, but this is a hilarious post!!

I don't care. He served our country, and he was not dishonorably discharged or discharged under "other than honorable" conditions.
Does this include Bush Aps?? I believe this description fits him also.
 

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aps said:
Oh, so the value of someone's service, which involved being in Vietnam and engaging in combat, is somehow lessened as a result of being on active duty for "only 4" years and on reserve duty for 33 years. I had no idea.
Nothing against anyone who served in the Reserves but serving 37 years active duty and serving 4 years active duty and 33 years in the reserves is a different thing........

When you serve in the sreserves it is a part time thing where maybe you drill once a month........When you serve on active duty it is 24/7 plus all the hardships that go with it.......
 

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danarhea said:
Its the way they are. They have no shame at all. Only a year ago, they were praising Murtha because he was supporting Bush on Iraq. Now that he isnt, they have decided to slander him. This isnt supporting the troops.

For instance, here is this hypothetical......

"It doesnt matter that this guy was killed in Vietnam, and got the Congressional Medal of Honor. He was only in the service for a few months before he died. Therefore, his service is diddly squat." Basically, that is the same kind of argument they are making about Murtha, carried to the extreme, of course, but against flat out extremists who love to lie, no argument is too extreme.
Most people I know are thanking Murtha for his 4 years active military service.........Where we disagree with him is his idea of cutting and running in Iraq..........
 

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aps said:
Frankly, any veteran who trashes another veteran is an a$$hole in my book. I thought the whole thing with attacking Kerry's service was pathetic. Kerry is certainly not perfect, but he went and served our country. "Oh, but he was a wimp and he got himself 3 Purple Hearts so he could get out." Blah blah blah blah. I don't care. He served our country, and he was not dishonorably discharged or discharged under "other than honorable" conditions. I don't know how those veterans (who are all republicans, I believe) sleep at night.
I really don't want to get into the Kerry thing again but when 90 percent of the men who served with him, both democrats and republicans say there were a lot of questions about the creditiability of his service you would think there might be somethign to it..........

And when POWs, some have received the Medal of Honor say his words and actions hurt them while they were held prisoner one has to listen.............
 

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Gill said:
Does this include Bush Aps?? I believe this description fits him also.
I should have clarified what I mean about having "served our country." Kerry went to Vietnam. That's what I am talking about. He didn't avoid it the way Bush and Cheney did. Bush's service in the National Guard would not constitute "active duty" unless he was activated by the President. That clearly was not the case. I can't compliment his service. Sorry.
 

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aps said:
I should have clarified what I mean about having "served our country." Kerry went to Vietnam. That's what I am talking about. He didn't avoid it the way Bush and Cheney did. Bush's service in the National Guard would not constitute "active duty" unless he was activated by the President. That clearly was not the case. I can't compliment his service. Sorry.
Well I compliment both Murtha and Bush for the Reserve duty......As far as Bush goes flying F102 fighter jets is no picnic either.....


Its true Kerry went to Vietnam and if he would do what he said he would do in that release his form 80 which describes his actions for receiving his medals...........He promised to do that but never has............
 

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Navy Pride said:
Nothing against anyone who served in the Reserves but serving 37 years active duty and serving 4 years active duty and 33 years in the reserves is a different thing........

When you serve in the sreserves it is a part time thing where maybe you drill once a month........When you serve on active duty it is 24/7 plus all the hardships that go with it.......
Okay, I can agree with that.


Navy Pride said:
I really don't want to get into the Kerry thing again but when 90 percent of the men who served with him, both democrats and republicans say there were a lot of questions about the creditiability of his service you would think there might be somethign to it..........
I didn't know that democrats had attacked his service. Do you have evidence of this?

Regardless, I believe that many of the people who attacked his service were not serving alongside with him. I don't give a lot of crediblity to people who attack his service that didn't service with him. There are so many problems with what the Swift Boat people did. Why not attack his service when he was running for the Senate? Nothing regarding his service in Vietnam had changed between when he first ran for office and when he ran for president. The timing was wholly suspicious. I am sure that there were holes in these people's stories about both Kerry and stories about their own service in Vietnam.


And when POWs, some have received the Medal of Honor say his words and actions hurt them while they were held prisoner one has to listen.............
That doesn't make him a bad person. Everything we say regarding controversial issues has consequences.
 

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aps said:
Okay, I can agree with that.




I didn't know that democrats had attacked his service. Do you have evidence of this?

Regardless, I believe that many of the people who attacked his service were not serving alongside with him. I don't give a lot of crediblity to people who attack his service that didn't service with him. There are so many problems with what the Swift Boat people did. Why not attack his service when he was running for the Senate? Nothing regarding his service in Vietnam had changed between when he first ran for office and when he ran for president. The timing was wholly suspicious. I am sure that there were holes in these people's stories about both Kerry and stories about their own service in Vietnam.




That doesn't make him a bad person. Everything we say regarding controversial issues has consequences.
1. During the 2004 presidential campaign there were Swiftboat Vets who served with him who claimed to be dems who questioned the medals received....There was a picture published that showed all the officers that served with him and almost to a man they spoke against Kerry.......

2. As far as attacking him when he ran for the Senate in Mass I don,'t have and answer for that accept to say that the presidency is a much more powerful and important office.......

3. You have to give some credence to POWs who were held in the hanoi Hilton who said that after Kerry became public with his words and actions they were tortured much more.........
 

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There is, I think, an important distinction to be made here, and that is between those who not only tout their military service but in some cases, exagerrate it, in an effort to gain poltiical advantage, and those who do not.

Murtha, to my knowledge has never exagerrated his military service. Unfortunately, some in the MSM have done so - some purposely, some (I think) inadvertantly. Murtha's military service has often been portrayed in the media with the intent of leaving an impression of many more years of active duty than actually served. But, to repeat, to my knowledge, Murtha himself has never done this, nor has he made his service the centerpiece of any campaign. Sure, his service record is one of his key qualifications, but he has never 'trafficked' in his military experience in a way that cheapens it, AFAIK. IMO, he is a believer in doing the right thing. My impression is that other partisans are attempting to hijack his service record for their own purposes. My only disappointment with Murtha is that he sometimes does not defend his service record from those hijackers as aggresively as I think he should. But thats just me - YMMV.

Kerry, on the other hand, rather blatantly reduced his military service to that of currency for political expenditure. IMO, he denigrated the service of those that should have been his band of brothers. He then has the gall to throw up a shoddy salute and 'report for duty'. Despicable. But thats just me - YMMV.

Al Gore's record on this has been largely ignored of late. When Gore was running for President the first time, back in the '80s, his campaign literature made much of the fact that he was in Vietnam. Some of his literature portrayed him as a 'combat veteran'. Turns out that he was in Vietnam for only a few months (like Kerry), but unlike even Kerry, Gore's job was to escort newspeople and VIPs around to safe areas and make sure that their needs were met. He never saw combat. As soon as the truth came out, the literature describing him as a 'combat veteran' disappeared and its existence attributed to an overzealous volunteer, IIRC. Shortly thereafter, I recall walking out of 4 World Trade Center one morning in the mid '80s and there was Al Gore, shaking hands and distributing literature. That literature still described him as a combat veteran.

As a veteran, I am perhaps overly sensitive to claims of service and maybe too quick to look for exagerrations. But it just makes my blood boil to hear some of these guys trading in the currency of lives lost in defense of our country.
 

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oldreliable67 said:
There is, I think, an important distinction to be made here, and that is between those who not only tout their military service but in some cases, exagerrate it, in an effort to gain poltiical advantage, and those who do not.

Murtha, to my knowledge has never exagerrated his military service. Unfortunately, some in the MSM have done so - some purposely, some (I think) inadvertantly. Murtha's military service has often been portrayed in the media with the intent of leaving an impression of many more years of active duty than actually served. But, to repeat, to my knowledge, Murtha himself has never done this, nor has he made his service the centerpiece of any campaign. Sure, his service record is one of his key qualifications, but he has never 'trafficked' in his military experience in a way that cheapens it, AFAIK. IMO, he is a believer in doing the right thing. My impression is that other partisans are attempting to hijack his service record for their own purposes. My only disappointment with Murtha is that he sometimes does not defend his service record from those hijackers as aggresively as I think he should. But thats just me - YMMV.

Kerry, on the other hand, rather blatantly reduced his military service to that of currency for political expenditure. IMO, he denigrated the service of those that should have been his band of brothers. He then has the gall to throw up a shoddy salute and 'report for duty'. Despicable. But thats just me - YMMV.

Al Gore's record on this has been largely ignored of late. When Gore was running for President the first time, back in the '80s, his campaign literature made much of the fact that he was in Vietnam. Some of his literature portrayed him as a 'combat veteran'. Turns out that he was in Vietnam for only a few months (like Kerry), but unlike even Kerry, Gore's job was to escort newspeople and VIPs around to safe areas and make sure that their needs were met. He never saw combat. As soon as the truth came out, the literature describing him as a 'combat veteran' disappeared and its existence attributed to an overzealous volunteer, IIRC. Shortly thereafter, I recall walking out of 4 World Trade Center one morning in the mid '80s and there was Al Gore, shaking hands and distributing literature. That literature still described him as a combat veteran.

As a veteran, I am perhaps overly sensitive to claims of service and maybe too quick to look for exagerrations. But it just makes my blood boil to hear some of these guys trading in the currency of lives lost in defense of our country.
You made some good points. One fact stands out about Murtha. He was extremely soft-spoken about his military record, and never wore it on his sleeve. Did Gore and Bush exxagerate their own service records? You betcha. Did Kerry? Possibly. Even if he didnt, the fact that he bragged about his military service to the point of saluting the Democratic National Convention and saying "Reporting for duty" struck me as kind of a cheap ploy.

However, Murtha never did anything of the kind, and for him to be Swiftboated like that is disgusting. But their mistake was to attack a marine the same way they attacked Kerry. Marines tend to stick together a bit more than other branches of the service, to the point where attacking one becomes an attack on all, and the Corp itself.
 

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Did Gore and Bush exxagerate their own service records? You betcha. Did Kerry? Possibly.
When did Bush exagerate his service record. I don't recall him mentioning it except to answer questions.

Kerry absolutely did in my opinion.
 

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danarhea said:
Did Kerry? Possibly.
Kerry's war record? Who knows?

January 30 marked the one-year anniversary of John Kerry promising on national television to sign DD Form 180 and to release all of his military records for review. He still has yet to do so.
 
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aps said:
Bush's service in the National Guard would not constitute "active duty" unless he was activated by the President. That clearly was not the case. I can't compliment his service. Sorry.
Interesting. Then you are saying the same thing to hundreds of thousands of Guardsmen. It's ironic that when speaking of Bush, the National Guard is such a pathetic way to serve, but in other times of need (like in Hurricane Katrina), they are heaven-sent.
 

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oldreliable67 said:
Kerry's war record? Who knows?

January 30 marked the one-year anniversary of John Kerry promising on national television to sign DD Form 180 and to release all of his military records for review. He still has yet to do so.
And he never will release his form DD180 because if he did it will show that as Commanding Officer of his Swiftboat he awarded himself medals that he did not qualify for.........
 

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KCConservative said:
Interesting. Then you are saying the same thing to hundreds of thousands of Guardsmen. It's ironic that when speaking of Bush, the National Guard is such a pathetic way to serve, but in other times of need (like in Hurricane Katrina), they are heaven-sent.
My thoughts on Bush's service in the National Guard are limited to his service. He intentionally avoided going into Vietnam. Currently, the National Guard has been called to active duty by the President.
 

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aps said:
My thoughts on Bush's service in the National Guard are limited to his service. He intentionally avoided going into Vietnam. Currently, the National Guard has been called to active duty by the President.
I don't think we know that...The F102 Jets that GWB flew were not used in Nam so his squadron was no deployed.........If they had been he would have had to go to...............
 
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aps said:
My thoughts on Bush's service in the National Guard are limited to his service. He intentionally avoided going into Vietnam. Currently, the National Guard has been called to active duty by the President.
You said that by joining the national guard, BUsh avoided going to Vietnam. Now if you are going to criticize him for that, then you spit on them all.
 
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