Venezuela Runs Out of Beer

[David_N]

Im not a fan of Keynesianism- I think the overemphasis on aggregate demand and monetary actions by governments is looking at economics the wrong way but MMT takes it past the logical extreme, to the point where it has no practical use whatsoever. It all sounds good on paper, but like communism, it really doesnt work.

What is extreme about MMT?

 

[ludin]

Can you please show much which post says "no worries we can just print money. we can just print money we can just print money.
no worries no consequences."? I seemed to have missed that post.

there are about a half dozen of them in the government finance forum. go look them up.

 

[David_N]

there are about a half dozen of them in the government finance forum. go look them up.

Link them or stop lying.
I want you to explicitly quote where anyone has said any country can spend indefinitely with no worries or consequences.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Link them or stop lying.
I want you to explicitly quote where anyone has said any country can spend indefinitely with no worries or consequences.

Here's a link to his claim:

Spoiler

 

[ludin]

Link them or stop lying.
I want you to explicitly quote where anyone has said any country can spend indefinitely with no worries or consequences.

I am not lying and your poor attempt to try and say that it has not occurred is the lie.
every one from john to every other mmter.

ol yea we can just print money and pay on the debt no problem. it won't affect anything.
to say otherwise is the lie it is there in black and white and I don't need to link anything
that everyone knows is true.

you are the one that had better stop lying and you know you are doing it.
you can see any thread with any mmter that we can just print money
no problem.

there about a dozen other people here that can back me up as well.

 

[ludin]

Here's a link to his claim:

Spoiler

not a strawman if it occurs.

hence why they say we can never default the government can just print money.
hmm interesting there goes YOUR strawman.

that is why they say the debt doesn't matter the government can just print money.
it is all over the forum no need to link it.

 

[Dittohead not!]

not a strawman if it occurs.

hence why they say we can never default the government can just print money.
hmm interesting there goes YOUR strawman.

that is why they say the debt doesn't matter the government can just print money.
it is all over the forum no need to link it.

If it's all over the forum, it shouldn't be too hard to link to it, easier, in fact, than just continuing to repeat it.

 

[David_N]

If it's all over the forum, it shouldn't be too hard to link to it, easier, in fact, than just continuing to repeat it.

He won't be able to.

 

[ludin]

If it's all over the forum, it shouldn't be too hard to link to it, easier, in fact, than just continuing to repeat it.

don't have to link something that everyone already knows about.
don't have to links something that is all over the forum.

the fact is you know it is true and instead of just admitting it you create a false narrative. pretty dishonest if you ask me.
it is a very poor argument to start from.

 

[ludin]

He won't be able to.

it is already out that I don't have to since you can catch any mmter thread and you will
see you can print money we don't have to worry about the debt.

 

[masterpierround]

Actually, that is not technically true.

'What is 'Bankruptcy'
A legal proceeding involving a person or business that is unable to repay outstanding debts. The bankruptcy process begins with a petition filed by the debtor (most common) or on behalf of creditors (less common). All of the debtor's assets are measured and evaluated, whereupon the assets are used to repay a portion of outstanding debt. Upon the successful completion of bankruptcy proceedings, the debtor is relieved of the debt obligations incurred prior to filing for bankruptcy.'

Read more: Bankruptcy Definition | Investopedia Bankruptcy Definition | Investopedia

As you can see, bankruptcy can be instigated by creditors. So, if Venezuela gets so far into debt and it's currency becomes practically worthless OR others refuse to accept it as currency, then Venezuela could be forced into bankruptcy by it's creditors.

It is not likely to happen...but it is technically possible (to my knowledge).


The thing to remember about currency is it is only as valuable as others think it is. If all others think it is worthless...it IS worthless.

This still does not refute the point that a country can never default on debts denominated in its own currency. If people consider the currency worthless, then the debt to be paid (in that currency) has no value. Even with no money, a debt with no value can be repaid.

 

[DA60]

This still does not refute the point that a country can never default on debts denominated in its own currency. If people consider the currency worthless, then the debt to be paid (in that currency) has no value. Even with no money, a debt with no value can be repaid.

First, my point was in regards to bankruptcy, not default.

Second, if a court determines that a country is paying back a debt with worthless currency, it (I believe - depending on the court) has the power to null and void the payment and deem the debt in official default. You cannot knowingly payback a debt with universally acknowledged, worthless currency...I doubt many courts would go along with that as a fair payment. In that instance, the court could theoretically force the country into bankruptcy to liquidate it's assets to pay off the loan.

Is it likely...no. Highly unlikely.

But it IS possible that a country that has a worthless currency can default on their debts (even if they print the currency in question).


BTW, welcome to the board.