Vaccines are failing...making mandates irrelevant.

[Hughinn]

Intentional ignorance or simple denial....

If you don't possess the intellect to follow the debate, then please excuse yourself

 

[Cardinal]

Your argument was vaccination to prevent the spread of variants.

That's pure horseshit because variants can form in vaccinated people too.

But since vaccinated people are much less likely to get it, then if everybody was vaccinated then the rate of infection would sputter to a halt and eventually die.

None of the shit you posted had any information whatsoever to support your argument of vaccination to prevent variants.

In fact, it looks like this omicron variant is more contagious to vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

false

The inevitable "midterm elections" variant well see this fall may or may not be the same way.

 

[maxparrish]

only to ignorant people who have no idea what they are talking about. Vaccines, virology, its all about numbers. Vaccines aren't 100%. ANd to be the most effective, you need a percentage of the popluation vaccinated to reach herd immunity. It's is pathetic at how embarrassing it is that we have all the vaccines we need to be 100% vac cinated and booster, and our numbers are abysmal. We have a country of selfish, moronic POS

The same asshole not vaccinated are also the same asshole not distancing, wearing masks, etc.

Because that is the facts. I know, it doesnt' matter to the uninformed conservative

Uninformed, is it? You mean like claiming "you need a percentage of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity"?

Here is one of the many definitions of herd immunity, all reflecting the same principle:

"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)

You don't need vaccination for herd immunity; it is just one way (if successful) for it to occur.

It's okay to be wrong, but rather embarrassing for you to be proud of it.

 

[Fledermaus]

If you don't possess the intellect to follow the debate, then please excuse yourself

I was commenting on your inability to accept reality.

 

[Cardinal]

Uninformed, is it? You mean like claiming "you need a percentage of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity"?

Here is one of the many definitions of herd immunity, all reflecting the same principle:

"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)

You don't need vaccination for herd immunity; it is just one way (if successful) for it to occur.

It's okay to be wrong, but rather embarrassing for you to be proud of it.

Yes, because the world was certainly working its way to herd immunity before a vaccine.

 

[Hughinn]

But since vaccinated people are much less likely to get it, then if everybody was vaccinated then the rate of infection would sputter to a halt and eventually die.



false

View attachment 67369955

You're really denying the omicron variant is more contagious to both vaxxed and unvaxxed? How ignorant of a statement can one make?

That's obvious to everyone.

And since Vaccine's don't stop variants from forming or being spread, your statement about it "sputtering to a halt" is completely hogwash. Vaccinated people catch, carry, spread and form variants.

 

[Cardinal]

You're really denying the omicron variant is more contagious to both vaxxed and unvaxxed? How ignorant of a statement can one make?

Definitely not equally. Look again.

That's obvious to everyone.

And since Vaccine's don't stop variants from forming or being spread, your statement about it "sputtering to a halt" is completely hogwash. Vaccinated people catch, carry, spread and firm variants.

It's true if the rate of infection of vaccinated people is much, much lower. Look at this graph:

 

[Hughinn]

Definitely not equally. Look again.

View attachment 67369956



It's true if the rate of infection of vaccinated people is much, much lower. Look at this graph:

View attachment 67369957

I seen the damn thing already.

There's nothing there to support your claims that vaccines prevent variants. Nothing.
And it's not going to magically appear just because you want it too.


And everyone, everywhere knows for a fact that omicron variant is more contagious than the original strain.

And that goes for both vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

 

[Monica33]

Do you want Covid to last another decade or so?

The hoax Pandemic has run its course with this latest variant having the severity of the common cold -- exactly as initially reported by South Africa to the corrupt WHO on November 24 th .
Only the insane or intellectually impaired would consider an inoculation based on Adverse Reactions Results which are grotesque and frightening .

The fact that this latest variant, Moronic , might spread faster than Delta , Beta , Alpha etc is a bonus --- moves us to unequivocal herd immunity quicker .

 

[Fledermaus]

Uninformed, is it? You mean like claiming "you need a percentage of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity"?

Here is one of the many definitions of herd immunity, all reflecting the same principle:

"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)

You don't need vaccination for herd immunity; it is just one way (if successful) for it to occur.

It's okay to be wrong, but rather embarrassing for you to be proud of it.

HERD IMMUNITY sans vaccine requires the herd to suffer a potentially deadly disease......

 

[maxparrish]

See the two hockey sticks in the graphs for new cases and hospitalizations?
Now look at VACCINATIONS in America and note there is no corresponding JUMP in the number of vaccinations.
NO HOCKEY STICK in the graph.
You can't beat COVID if 40% of the country still refuses to take the shots.

View attachment 67369918

So you provided three graphs showing the wildly oscillating peaks and valleys of covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths starting in May of 2020, AND a graph of steadily increasing vaccinations Dec of 2020.

One might think your point was the self-evident, there is NO correlation between ever increasing vaccination and the reduction of Covid. Indeed, if accurate, covid cases and hospitalization are higher with 60% of the population vaccinated that 0%.

"This is our problem" highlighted in red isn't necessarily wrong, its pointing out that vaccines are failing.

I'm sure that was not the point you were making, but thanks for the help.

 

[Fledermaus]

The hoax Pandemic has run its course with this latest variant having the severity of the common cold -- exactly as initially reported by South Africa to the corrupt WHO on November 24 th .
Only the insane or intellectually impaired would consider an inoculation based on Adverse Results results which are grotesq

Time to first stupid statement.....

First sentence.

"hoax Pandemic" = Stupid talk

 

[Cardinal]

I seen the damn thing already.

I grant that you saw it, but did you understand what you were looking at? Do you want me to explain it to you? I'm an artist so I'm usually pretty good at describing pictures.

There's nothing there to support your claims that vaccines prevent variants. Nothing.
And it's not going to magically appear just because you want it too.

Let's start with something simple. Do you understand the concept that if something is very low in transmissibility, then it's not likely to be passed along, and that it would therefore eventually sputter out and die?

And everyone, everywhere knows for a fact that omicron variant is more contagious than the original strain.

But not equally. Look here:

And that goes for both vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

 

[Hughinn]

I grant that you saw it, but did you understand what you were looking at? Do you want me to explain it to you? I'm an artist so I'm usually pretty good at describing pictures.



Let's start with something simple. Do you understand the concept that if something is very low in transmissibility, then it's not likely to be passed along, and that it would therefore eventually sputter out and die?



But not equally. Look here:

View attachment 67369962

Really man. You're beating a dead horse here and trying to argue against a point I'm not trying to make.

First off, vaccines don't prevent variants. That's not up for discussion.

Second, omicron variant is more contagious than the original strain for both vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. That's not up for discussion

Now....
Nobody is arguing about "equal" except for you here. I'm not denying the vaccine lowers the rates of transmission to some degree. But it doesn't stop it. Nor does it stop variants from forming.

 

[maxparrish]

You clearly don’t understand what is meant by “resistance “.
The more virus in the community the higher the chance of a mutation-which is always random. And because covidiots are more likely to become a reservoir for virus they are much more likely to CAUSE variants.
Viruses do not acquire resistance like bacteria do. A staphylococcus can import a plasmid that makes it resistant to an antibiotic (or several antibiotics)- but it’s still a staphylococcus. Viral mutants have fundamentally changed what they are. Delta has different RNA than omicron for example.
Basically viruses transform into a fundamentally different virus. They don’t get resistant to vaccines.
A meningococcus or a pneumococcus may become resistant to an antibiotic but that resistance doesn’t affect the efficacy of the vaccines against it.

Perhaps you need to explain that to the four medical experts whose commentary and papers say you don't get it? I'm tired of explaining the obvious to folks, so I refer you to post 417.

 

[Hughinn]

Perhaps you need to explain that to the four medical experts whose commentary and papers say you don't get it? I'm tired of explaining the obvious to folks, so I refer you to post 417.

You'll run into that alot here.

Explaining the same thing over and over.

Posting the same links over and over.

And there's always some new liberal idiot who doesn't read the thread and jumps in with same responses and comments they all have rehearsed in the middle of the thread to make a point that's already been shot down.

It never ends

 

[Cardinal]

Really man. You're beating a dead horse here and trying to argue against a point I'm not trying to make.

First off, vaccines don't prevent variants. That's not up for discussion.

Second, omicron variant is more contagious than the original strain for both vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. That's not up for discussion

Now....
Nobody is arguing about "equal" except for you here. I'm not denying the vaccine lowers the rates of transmission to some degree. But it doesn't stop it. Nor does it stop variants from forming.

The graph shows that covid/omicron is wildly more contagious to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. Did you understand that from the picture? Do you need me to tell you what the different lines in that graph represent?

 

[maxparrish]

Yeah wrong.
Look ..I explained it to you. You don't get it.
You erroneously think that vaccination is biologically different than unvaccinated in how the immune system fight off the virus. It's not.
The only difference is that the vaccine gives a heads up to the immune system ..making the vaccinated person have a quicker and better immune response.
A person who has been unvaccinated but has had a prior infection will also have a better immune response.
A person who is unvaccinated but younger and healthier will also have a better immune response.
A person who is vaccinated but severely immuno suppressed may have an immune response WEAKER than an unvaccinated person with a strong immune system .
Any variant that can beat an immune system that other variants cant beat has a competitive advantage over the others.
Regardless of whether tge other variants can't beat it because of vaccination ..prior infection or simply a strong immune system.

If we followed your premise.. young unvaccinated healthy individuals that rarely get really sick with covid are going to create selective pressure for very infectious variants that can defeat their immune systems.

By the way..the people you cite cannot answer that same question..otherwise they don't know jack.
If vaccinated people create selective pressure for more infectious variants..
Why don't unvaccinated people who have been exposed to covid and have natural immunity also create the exact same selective pressure?
I get your appeal to authority...but they fail

The four experts I quoted in post 417 explained it anyone who can read, and apparently you don't get it.

Do we believe scientists who know how natural selection works, or posters named Jaeger19?

Gee, it's so hard to decide (sarcasm).

 

[Hughinn]

The graph shows that covid/omicron is wildly more contagious to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. Did you understand that from the picture? Do you need me to tell you what the different lines in that graph represent?

It's also more contagious to the vaccinated

And vaccines don't stop variants like omicron from forming.

Goddamn man. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You're arguing a point that's not in dispute to refute a point that can't be disputed.

Stop already

 

[Cardinal]

It's also more contagious to the vaccinated

Goddamn man.

Over 60% more contagious to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. Do you understand how a group that's infectious at 65% would spread a disease more than a group that's infectious at about 7%?

Hold on, let's back up because I think I'm confusing you, so let's start with something simple: Is 65 a bigger number than 7?

 

[Monica33]

So, after at least 3000 years, it just decided to quit?

Absolute rubbish.

DYOR and find out the true causes of Smallpox and the reasons why it was already being eradicated by non vaccine means .
Take note of how vaccine introduction raised infections .

Always best to check out the facts before regurgitating fake official narratives .

 

[Hughinn]

Over 60% more contagious to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. Do you understand how a group that's infectious at nearly 70% would spread a disease more than a group that's infectious at about 7%?

You understand that the point is you can still get covid and variants while vaccinated. Variants can form in vaccinated people. And spread through a vaccinated population.

None of that can be disputed.

Stop already.

 

[Fledermaus]

DYOR and find out the true causes of Smallpox and the reasons why it was already being eradicated by non vaccine means .
Take note of how vaccine introduction raised infections .

Always best to check out the facts before regurgitating fake official narratives .

Time to first lie.

First sentence.

 

[Fledermaus]

You understand that the point is you can still get covid and variants while vaccinated. Variants can form in vaccinated people. And spread through a vaccinated population.

None of that can be disputed.

Stop already.

You can get.

Yep.

No one arguing that point.

It is how many and how serious the infection is.

A point you continue to ignore.

 

[Mach]

First off, vaccines don't prevent variants. That's not up for discussion.
I'm not denying the vaccine lowers the rates of transmission to some degree. But it doesn't stop it. Nor does it stop variants from forming.

Who is claiming vaccines prevent/stop infection? No one.
They dramatically reduce the chance of serious illness, and they reduce transmissible. Sufficient to mandate the vaccine.
20 pages of something so simple a cave man could understand it.