US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

[anatta]

well. some restraint on Biden's part...I didnt see that not coming!

Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

www.foxnews.com

The Washington Post reported that the administration was mulling providing the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), which would allow Ukrainians to fire rockets much further than they are currently able.
MLRS had reportedly been a top request from Ukrainian officials, who say they need it to stop the advance of Russian forces in the east, which has taken control of the key city of Lyman last week.


Rebekah Koffler, former DIA intelligence officer and author of "Putin’s Playbook," said that sending those systems to Ukraine would be seen as escalatory by Moscow, which comes with significant risks and a potential Russian response.
"Whether we believe we are climbing the escalatory ladder or not, it's irrelevant, it's how the Russians perceive it, because they are acting on it," she said.

 

[anatta]

BTW this was a Russian "redline" - the first we dint blow thru..baby steps

 

[MamboDervish]

well. some restraint on Biden's part...I didnt see that not coming!

Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

www.foxnews.com

The Washington Post reported that the administration was mulling providing the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), which would allow Ukrainians to fire rockets much further than they are currently able.
MLRS had reportedly been a top request from Ukrainian officials, who say they need it to stop the advance of Russian forces in the east, which has taken control of the key city of Lyman last week.


Rebekah Koffler, former DIA intelligence officer and author of "Putin’s Playbook," said that sending those systems to Ukraine would be seen as escalatory by Moscow, which comes with significant risks and a potential Russian response.
"Whether we believe we are climbing the escalatory ladder or not, it's irrelevant, it's how the Russians perceive it, because they are acting on it," she said.

Good. More wisdom from Biden. It would be a mistake to give Ukraine that capability. On the other hand, if Ukraine can carry their war into Russia using more conventional weaponry, it might become a much bigger inspiration for the Russians to oust Putin and give up their foolish and costly military adventurism.

Alas it's unlikely. They'd need to drive Russia from Crimea first, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[anatta]

Good. More wisdom from Biden. It would be a mistake to give Ukraine that capability. On the other hand, if Ukraine can carry their war into Russia using more conventional weaponry, it might become a much bigger inspiration for the Russians to oust Putin and give up their foolish and costly military adventurism.

Alas it's unlikely. They'd need to drive Russia from Crimea first, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

they cant get into Russia

 

[PoS]

I think America should send these rocket systems to Ukraine, otherwise the war will just keep dragging on.

 

[Fledermaus]

they cant get into Russia

Crimea =/= Russia

 

[Juin]

Good. More wisdom from Biden. It would be a mistake to give Ukraine that capability. On the other hand, if Ukraine can carry their war into Russia using more conventional weaponry, it might become a much bigger inspiration for the Russians to oust Putin and give up their foolish and costly military adventurism.

Alas it's unlikely. They'd need to drive Russia from Crimea first, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I am beginning to doubt a Ukrainian Army big enough to enable Ukraine to push Russia out of Ukraine will ever be able to be built by the west. Too much complications, too much cooks. The disturbing observation is that the weapons sent to Ukraine appear to be dangerous enough to land powerful blows on the Russian Army but not powerful enough to reverse anything.

Senile Joe sent 144,000 shells for scores of top line artillery pieces to Ukraine. Germans weighed in with all kinds of panzers. Boris Johnson sent more. The three Baltic midgets chipped in. The Poles. The Aussies. They were touted in the media as game changers. Do they appear to be making a difference?

There is a likelihood any inch of ground Ukraine loses to Russians is gone for good. The Ukrainians may place their bets on a rebuilt Ukrainian army retaking those lands. It's a tough call. If that Army never materialises then it was a poor bet and Ukraine winds up with minimal Ukraine. Or the west can start reaching out for a deal that leaves as maximal a Ukraine as obtainable

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

OR...

"US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia"

yet...

Not nyet...yet.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Good. More wisdom from Biden. It would be a mistake to give Ukraine that capability. On the other hand, if Ukraine can carry their war into Russia using more conventional weaponry, it might become a much bigger inspiration for the Russians to oust Putin and give up their foolish and costly military adventurism.

Alas it's unlikely. They'd need to drive Russia from Crimea first, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Or it would see Russia double down on mass artillery strikes on cities, far more than they have done so far

 

[Chomsky]

BTW this was a Russian "redline" - the first we dint blow thru..baby steps

Who care's what Putin thinks? All he understands is force.

Biden is hanging the Ukrainians out to dry, here. Many more are now going to die, and Putin will be more emboldened.

 

[Chomsky]

I think America should send these rocket systems to Ukraine, otherwise the war will just keep dragging on.

Yep.

This only emboldens Putin.

 

[anatta]

Who care's what Putin thinks? All he understands is force.

Biden is hanging the Ukrainians out to dry, here. Many more are now going to die, and Putin will be more emboldened.

yours is the kind of thinking -
lack of diplomacy and utter disregard for Russia security as a nationstate that got us here

and no "many are not going to die" because long range targets in Russia aren't doable
Ukriane has plenty of shorter range missiles,and superior howitzers ,and plenty of artillery pieces

 

[anatta]

I think America should send these rocket systems to Ukraine, otherwise the war will just keep dragging on.

longer range rockets have very little more tactical importance -certainly not enough to
"drag on the war" the war is doing that by itself already

 

[anatta]

Yep.
This only emboldens Putin.

lol. no it doesn't Putin isn't going to change his strategy one iota except perhaps move some targets further from the border
what it does do is keep this from becoming more of a war directly against Russia
instead of the proxy war it is now. If Biden had sent these -the one reason to do so was strike Russia directly

 

[anatta]

Or it would see Russia double down on mass artillery strikes on cities, far more than they have done so far

possible. but I dont think Putin is holding anything back in Donbas or the south/coast

 

[Chomsky]

yours is the kind of thinking -
lack of diplomacy and utter disregard for Russia security as a nationstate that got us here

No, Putin got us here.

and no "many are not going to die" because long range targets in Russia aren't doable
Ukriane has plenty of shorter range missiles,and superior howitzers ,and plenty of artillery pieces

Yes, many more will indeed die. The longer the war, the more will die. The way to minimize the deaths, is to get this over with as quickly as possible. And, that takes arms.

 

[anatta]

Crimea =/= Russia

these were bever going to be used against Crimea. that ship has sailed.
The rest of the land corridor from Russia to Crimea is still in play

 

[EnigmaO01]

Or it would see Russia double down on mass artillery strikes on cities, far more than they have done so far

I don't see how it could get much worse for the cities.

 

[Chomsky]

lol. no it doesn't Putin isn't going to change his strategy one iota except perhaps move some targets further from the border
what it does do is keep this from becoming more of a war directly against Russia
instead of the proxy war it is now. If Biden had sent these -the one reason to do so was strike Russia directly

Yes, it does.

RU military has greatly withdrawn from many their earlier positions, due UKR force applied against them.

Now, RU is slowly advancing and expanding again, rather than their former retreat.

UKR needs the military power to force them back into retreat, and to get them the hell out.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I don't see how it could get much worse for the cities.

Look at pictures of Grozny after the second Chechen war, that city was in much worse shape.

 

[anatta]

No, Putin got us here.
Yes, many more will indeed die. The longer the war, the more will die. The way to minimize the deaths, is to get this over with as quickly as possible. And, that takes arms.

Putin tried diplomacy -3x just under Biden he sent Lavrov with letters asking Biden/Blinken to respect his redlines
(bombers along Russia coast ,stop the warships running into Crimean waters -more not disclosed
I wont even go into militarization of Ukraine before the war.whispers of NATO expansion and winks we got their backs
and of course our meddling in the Maidan

The way to get this over with is peace talks,which the USA doesn't seem to want
and even if we did we couldn't facilitate. But Erdogan could of the EU -but they aren't going to buck the USA's proxy war

 

[Chomsky]

OR...

"US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia"

yet...

Not nyet...yet.

Which seems to be the way this thing has often been going. Too little, too late, is causing massive bloodshed & damage.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Look at pictures of Grozny after the second Chechen war, that city was in much worse shape.

Both are no longer inhabitable in their existing buildings. Not much different in that respect.

Once they get to the inhabitable stage increased shelling is just a waste of artillery.

But please Putin use up those shells at that point!

 

[Chomsky]

Putin tried diplomacy -3x just under Biden he sent Lavrov with letters asking Biden/Blinken to respect his redlines
(bombers along Russia coast ,stop the warships running into Crimean waters -more not disclosed
I wont even go into militarization of Ukraine before the war.whispers of NATO expansion and winks we got their backs
and of course our meddling in the Maidan

The way to get this over with is peace talks,which the USA doesn't seem to want
and even if we did we couldn't facilitate. But Erdogan could of the EU -but they aren't going to buck the USA's proxy war

Putin doesn't call the shots, here. It's not for him to decide.

 

[anatta]

Yes, it does.

RU military has greatly withdrawn from many their earlier positions, due UKR force applied against them.

Now, RU is slowly advancing and expanding again, rather than their former retreat.

UKR needs the military power to force them back into retreat, and to get them the hell out.

those positions are in Ukraine. there is no war inside Russian borders

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/politics/us-long-range-rockets-ukraine-mlrs/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2O5PfwKTMyHQKir8m5bze7zz6Tr4gUMztFjhFU4vsrUGjDM-bzMsYsnn4

Zelensky, have pleaded in recent weeks for the US and its allies to provide the Multiple Launch Rocket System, or MLRS. The US-made weapon systems can fire a barrage of rockets hundreds of kilometers — much farther than any of the systems Ukraine already has — which the Ukrainians argue could be a gamechanger in their war against Russia.
Biden administration waivered for weeks, however, on whether to send the systems, amid concerns raised within the National Security Council that Ukraine could use the new weapons to carry out offensive attacks inside Russia,