US Women's equal pay claim dismissed by court

[ClaraD]

Its still a different league, right?

No, both are USSF

 

[ludin]

No, both are USSF

separate contracts.

also as i pointed out. the USSF has 0 control over what FIFA pays out for the different world cups.
the money is set by FIFA and each team is award that money based on their agreement.

USSF is right if the woman want the same pay structure as men they should have agreed to it.
They could sue their union rep for giving them a bad deal.

When their contract comes up they can re-negotiate their pay structure to be the same as the men.
and there are some big differences in their pay structures.

They could sue the FIFA organization but that would take a world court to do it.
USSF has 0 control over what FIFA pays out.

they also are not responsible for making up the difference.

 

[ClaraD]

separate contracts.

also as i pointed out. the USSF has 0 control over what FIFA pays out for the different world cups.
the money is set by FIFA and each team is award that money based on their agreement.

USSF is right if the woman want the same pay structure as men they should have agreed to it.
They could sue their union rep for giving them a bad deal.

When their contract comes up they can re-negotiate their pay structure to be the same as the men.
and there are some big differences in their pay structures.

They could sue the FIFA organization but that would take a world court to do it.
USSF has 0 control over what FIFA pays out.

they also are not responsible for making up the difference.

Doesn't matter...clearly the judge said there was some discrimination that could move forward as well...different turf, different travel expense reimbursements, different flight types...for instance the men flew on private chartered flights while the women had to fly on a regular plane.

It is like saying that if we both work for Walmart(I don't, nor would I) and we do the exact same job, have the exact same experience and I excel at my job better than you, have higher numbers, but you are paid higher and you argue, well you don't have a claim because they hired you at such and such wage and you accepted....it doesn't matter what the contract is or the wage is or benefits are....they should be equal. Honestly, the men should also sue the league. Soccer has an awful reputation of discrimination.

FIFA doesn't control the women's or men's contracts and what they pay out is less than 1/4 of what the total is. The sponserships are sold in a bundle that encompasses both men and women's teams....that is where most of the income comes from.

 

[ludin]

Doesn't matter...clearly the judge said there was some discrimination that could move forward as well...different turf, different travel expense reimbursements, different flight types...for instance the men flew on private chartered flights while the women had to fly on a regular plane.

YOu simply do not read anything do you? this is why you are wrong 99% of the time in what you post because you simply do not read what people say and what other people say.
The judge dismissed the turf play. He said that there is 0 evidence nor could it be proven that it was discrimination.

What he did let go through was the travel and hotels and plane etc ... I agree that there should not be a difference and i have no problem with them
proving that in court. YOu need to read people's post and what they say and not what you want them to say.

It is like saying that if we both work for Walmart(I don't, nor would I) and we do the exact same job, have the exact same experience and I excel at my job better than you, have higher numbers, but you are paid higher and you argue, well you don't have a claim because they hired you at such and such wage and you accepted....it doesn't matter what the contract is or the wage is or benefits are....they should be equal. Honestly, the men should also sue the league. Soccer has an awful reputation of discrimination.

They won't be equal because you agreed to a price that was different. Maybe i negotiated a better wage. Maybe they did offer me the same wage as you and i said i would like Y instead of X and you didn't.
That isn't discriminatory. It 100% matters what the contract says.
There is no reason for them to sue.

FIFA doesn't control the women's or men's contracts and what they pay out is less than 1/4 of what the total is. The sponserships are sold in a bundle that encompasses both men and women's teams....that is where most of the income comes from.

No that was the Women's Union rep in the contract. They could sue the union rep that drafted the contract.
the USSF neogiated in good faith. The women got what they wanted.

THe chose to forgo major play bonuses for guaranteed salaries and other benefits that the men do not get.

the men are paid solely based on a pay to play bonus term without any other benefits. If they don't suit up they don't get paid.
the women do.

They cannot retroactively say it isn't fair when they got what they asked for.
If they didn't like the pay structure made up by their own union rep they should have rejected it.

they evidently didn't do that.

 

[cpwill]

Are you being sarcastic?

It's hard for me to believe anyone who has even a small grasp of reality would argue professional athletes have "equal skill".

You have people out there seriously arguing that the skill and dedication that it takes to achieve one of the easiest master's degrees out there and teach English to 7th Graders is somehow greater than and therefore deserves greater compensation than those who rise to the most-elite ranks of sports.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but, those people are out there.

 

[TurtleDude]

there is no greater risk, both the men and women play the exact same game. Making the women take regular flights while the men get chartered is discrimination.

do you think the four majors in tennis should pay women the same rates (they do) for playing 2/3 sets when the men have to play 3/5 sets?

 

[ClaraD]

YOu simply do not read anything do you? this is why you are wrong 99% of the time in what you post because you simply do not read what people say and what other people say.
The judge dismissed the turf play. He said that there is 0 evidence nor could it be proven that it was discrimination.

What he did let go through was the travel and hotels and plane etc ... I agree that there should not be a difference and i have no problem with them
proving that in court. YOu need to read people's post and what they say and not what you want them to say.



They won't be equal because you agreed to a price that was different. Maybe i negotiated a better wage. Maybe they did offer me the same wage as you and i said i would like Y instead of X and you didn't.
That isn't discriminatory. It 100% matters what the contract says.
There is no reason for them to sue.



No that was the Women's Union rep in the contract. They could sue the union rep that drafted the contract.
the USSF neogiated in good faith. The women got what they wanted.

THe chose to forgo major play bonuses for guaranteed salaries and other benefits that the men do not get.

the men are paid solely based on a pay to play bonus term without any other benefits. If they don't suit up they don't get paid.
the women do.

They cannot retroactively say it isn't fair when they got what they asked for.
If they didn't like the pay structure made up by their own union rep they should have rejected it.

they evidently didn't do that.

you likely don't believe in equal pay anyway...or equal rights. Your posts have been reference to that position as are most very right winger conservatives.

 

[ClaraD]

do you think the four majors in tennis should pay women the same rates (they do) for playing 2/3 sets when the men have to play 3/5 sets?

tennis is not soccer and if they are not being paid equally for equal skills then they have a right to sue.

 

[danielpalos]

Maybe the League should consult a tax attorney to see if they can purchase a few planes and charter them out to recover costs when not in use for the League?

 

[TurtleDude]

tennis is not soccer and if they are not being paid equally for equal skills then they have a right to sue.

you didn't answer my question.

 

[ludin]

you likely don't believe in equal pay anyway...or equal rights. Your posts have been reference to that position as are most very right winger conservatives.

You don't understand what equal pay means.

Equal pay means that both people are offered the same thing.

SO if company A both offers us 50k a year to start that is called equal pay. Let's say you accept the 50k. That is you accepting it.
I tell the company i want 55k to start and they agree. That is me negotiating a different term that you didn't.

That is not discrimination. I simply negotiated a better deal. YOu could have negotiated a better deal but chose not to.

when it comes to hourly wages it is completely different that is paid by hours works.
when the study was done that is where the gap was. women usually worked 37.5 hours most men worked 40.5 hours.

The gap in wages comes negotiated pay, hours worked etc ...

Women tend to work in more social fields which pay less money than STEM fields.

You want equal results i encourage equal oppertunity.

You can't have equal results. a female school teacher will never make as much as a software developer or a system engineer.
nor should they.

YOu have the same ability to negotiate more money than me. if you are not doing it then that is your fault and no one else's.

 

[ludin]

do you think the four majors in tennis should pay women the same rates (they do) for playing 2/3 sets when the men have to play 3/5 sets?

Bill Burr said it best. Women talk about equal but they only want the good part of being a guy. They don't want all the other stuff that goes along with it.
Bill Burr said it best there is a $2 surcharge for being a guy because in the unlikely event of a Titantic disaster or any other kind of emergancy it is women and
children first always. SOmeone robbing a bank? It is just let the women and children go.

A guy crosses the line and you bust him in the face for it and you go have a beer.
A women lights your **** on fire you go to jail for it.

There are no feminists in a house fire.

 

[ludin]

tennis is not soccer and if they are not being paid equally for equal skills then they have a right to sue.

The skills are not equal though. The Men's league is way way tougher. It is way way more competitive.
Do you honestly think that the women's team can compete again Germany or Barcelona?
Do you honestly think that they can compete against brazil or the French team?

Their skills are NOT equal because they wouldn't make it.

 

[ClaraD]

The skills are not equal though. The Men's league is way way tougher. It is way way more competitive.
Do you honestly think that the women's team can compete again Germany or Barcelona?
Do you honestly think that they can compete against brazil or the French team?

Their skills are NOT equal because they wouldn't make it.

The women's team beat both

Matches & Results | U.S. Soccer Official Website
Women's World Cup 2019 scores, bracket, schedule, dates, start times: USWNT wins second consecutive title - CBSSports.com


They beat the Netherlands in the World Cup...so Do I think they could beat Germany or Spain...yes.
Do women and men play against each other? No
However, it is patently dishonest to say that there are different skill levels required...the men play against men, the women play against women...the Men's team didn't beat Germany or the Netherlands or even Spain...hell they didn't even make the cut to go to the WC.
Since the women bring in equal sponserships and just as equal income, they should get equal pay and benefits in all aspects.

The league arguement isn't that they don't have the strength that men do...it is that he claimed that there was more dangerous countries that the Men's team visited....doesn't matter, they don't have to send them to those dangerous countries and the women played MORE games than the men did.

 

[ClaraD]

The skills are not equal though. The Men's league is way way tougher. It is way way more competitive.
Do you honestly think that the women's team can compete again Germany or Barcelona?
Do you honestly think that they can compete against brazil or the French team?

Their skills are NOT equal because they wouldn't make it.

the men are clearly not up to the job then...they lost and did not even participate in the WC. Hell, they could not even beat Trinidad Tobago and lost to Honduras, both supposedly inferior teams.

USMNT’s failure is the biggest embarrassment in U.S. sports history

 

[ludin]

The women's team beat both


They beat the Netherlands in the World Cup...so Do I think they could beat Germany or Spain...yes.
Do women and men play against each other? No
However, it is patently dishonest to say that there are different skill levels required...the men play against men, the women play against women...the Men's team didn't beat Germany or the Netherlands or even Spain...hell they didn't even make the cut to go to the WC.
Since the women bring in equal sponserships and just as equal income, they should get equal pay and benefits in all aspects.

The league arguement isn't that they don't have the strength that men do...it is that he claimed that there was more dangerous countries that the Men's team visited....doesn't matter, they don't have to send them to those dangerous countries and the women played MORE games than the men did.

Why do you lie? they never played the men's Germany Team they never played the men's Barcelona team.
Messi would destroy them.

It isn't patently dishonest when it is the truth. The men's league is faster rougher and harder skill wise.
The women's team would get obliterated except by maybe the worst men's team out there and even then it would
be a underdog fight.

What is patently dishonest is that it take the same skill when it doesn't.

You don't know that they bring in equal sponsorship the numbers are not published an they are sold as a package deal from what i have read.
your making stuff up.

IF they want the same pay then they need to accept the same contract next time.
that doesn't change the fact that the USSF has no control over what FIFA pays for the world cup.

they only dole out the money based on their agreed contracts which the judge found to be legit and no discrimination and i agree with him on it.

They get paid regardless if they play or not. the men do not.
They get a whole slew of other benefits that the men do not get.

as a result they get less performance bonuses.

if they didn't like it then they should have not accepted it.
that is the cool thing about freedom and choices.

 

[ludin]

the men are clearly not up to the job then...they lost and did not even participate in the WC. Hell, they could not even beat Trinidad Tobago and lost to Honduras, both supposedly inferior teams.

non sequitur.
the men got paid based on their contract. in fact some of the men didn't get paid at all.


same as the women.

 

[ClaraD]

Why do you lie? they never played the men's Germany Team they never played the men's Barcelona team.
Messi would destroy them.

It isn't patently dishonest when it is the truth. The men's league is faster rougher and harder skill wise.
The women's team would get obliterated except by maybe the worst men's team out there and even then it would
be a underdog fight.

What is patently dishonest is that it take the same skill when it doesn't.

You don't know that they bring in equal sponsorship the numbers are not published an they are sold as a package deal from what i have read.
your making stuff up.

IF they want the same pay then they need to accept the same contract next time.
that doesn't change the fact that the USSF has no control over what FIFA pays for the world cup.

they only dole out the money based on their agreed contracts which the judge found to be legit and no discrimination and i agree with him on it.

They get paid regardless if they play or not. the men do not.
They get a whole slew of other benefits that the men do not get.

as a result they get less performance bonuses.

if they didn't like it then they should have not accepted it.
that is the cool thing about freedom and choices.

where did you say the Men's team? You said Germany or Spain.
Men's teams and Women's teams do not compete together. The strength of either is irrelevent it is how many games, how many they actually win and how much money they bring in that counts.


U.S. women’s soccer games have generated more revenue than U.S. men’s games over the past three years.

That’s according to audited financial statements from the U.S. Soccer Federation (USSF) obtained by The Wall Street Journal. In 2016, women’s games generated $1.9 million more in revenue than men’s games. From 2016 to 2018, women’s games generated approximately $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for men’s games.
US women'''s soccer games now generate more revenue than men'''s

 

[ludin]

where did you say the Men's team? You said Germany or Spain.
Men's teams and Women's teams do not compete together. The strength of either is irrelevent it is how many games, how many they actually win and how much money they bring in that counts.

Your right they don't compete why? because the women's team would get destroyed. They don't have the same skill set. I have seen the men's German team play.
in 30 minutes of play they scored 4 goals on what was a supposed to be a top ranked Barcelona team a few years ago.

in 90 minutes of play the French Team scored 4 goals on the Croatia team. Do you honestly think the women could beat them?
no.

U.S. women’s soccer games have generated more revenue than U.S. men’s games over the past three years.

That’s according to audited financial statements from the U.S. Soccer Federation (USSF) obtained by The Wall Street Journal. In 2016, women’s games generated $1.9 million more in revenue than men’s games. From 2016 to 2018, women’s games generated approximately $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for men’s games.

Revenue is irrelevant. They got paid based upon what they agreed to. If they didn't like it then they shouldn't have signed the damn contract.
Nothing in the contract states they get paid based on revenue.

If they have a problem with their contract they should sue their union rep for giving them a bad deal.

 

[ClaraD]

Your right they don't compete why? because the women's team would get destroyed. They don't have the same skill set. I have seen the men's German team play.
in 30 minutes of play they scored 4 goals on what was a supposed to be a top ranked Barcelona team a few years ago.

in 90 minutes of play the French Team scored 4 goals on the Croatia team. Do you honestly think the women could beat them?
no.


Revenue is irrelevant. They got paid based upon what they agreed to. If they didn't like it then they shouldn't have signed the damn contract.
Nothing in the contract states they get paid based on revenue.

If they have a problem with their contract they should sue their union rep for giving them a bad deal.

pay is not relevent to skill set, it is relevent to PERFORMANCE which is how many games did they win, how many lost...and HOW MUCH MONEY DID THEY BRING IN. In fact, had the women's team charged the same as the men's does for tickets there would have been a significant difference in they probably would have brought in double the revnue.

If you own a business...who are you going to pay more to? The person who brings in more money to you or the guy that brings in less? Are you really going to argue that because he weighs 300 lbs and is 6'5 he deserves more money than the woman who is 5'1 and weighs 90lbs simply because of the size of the person instead of their performance in their job?

 

[ludin]

pay is not relevent to skill set, it is relevent to PERFORMANCE which is how many games did they win, how many lost...and HOW MUCH MONEY DID THEY BRING IN. In fact, had the women's team charged the same as the men's does for tickets there would have been a significant difference in they probably would have brought in double the revnue.

Pay absolutely is very much relevant to skill set. whoever told you it wasn't is an idiot. Hence why the system administrator gets paid more than the helpdesk technician.
Yep and they were paid based on their performance on what they agreed to in their contract. What they brought in is irrelevant. Yet they aren't charged the same.

If the men aren't good enough then they don't dress and don't get paid at all.

If you own a business...who are you going to pay more to? The person who brings in more money to you or the guy that brings in less? Are you really going to argue that because he weighs 300 lbs and is 6'5 he deserves more money than the woman who is 5'1 and weighs 90lbs simply because of the size of the person instead of their performance in their job?

If I own a business i am going to offer the same pay to everyone. I will ask you again and you refuse to answer it because you know the answer.

I own a business you come in and i offer you a job. I say i pay everyone here 50k base with a 10% commission on net profit sales.
YOu say i would rather have 60k base. I say ok but you only get 5% commision on net profit sales and you agree.

Later on the 300 lb 6'5 guy makes 200k. you only make 175k.
the reason for the discrepancy is that he worked more hours than you,
he had a higher commission rate.

DO you think that is discriminatory or not?

 

[ClaraD]

Pay absolutely is very much relevant to skill set. whoever told you it wasn't is an idiot. Hence why the system administrator gets paid more than the helpdesk technician.
Yep and they were paid based on their performance on what they agreed to in their contract. What they brought in is irrelevant. Yet they aren't charged the same.

If the men aren't good enough then they don't dress and don't get paid at all.




If I own a business i am going to offer the same pay to everyone. I will ask you again and you refuse to answer it because you know the answer.

I own a business you come in and i offer you a job. I say i pay everyone here 50k base with a 10% commission on net profit sales.
YOu say i would rather have 60k base. I say ok but you only get 5% commision on net profit sales and you agree.

Later on the 300 lb 6'5 guy makes 200k. you only make 175k.
the reason for the discrepancy is that he worked more hours than you,
he had a higher commission rate.

DO you think that is discriminatory or not?

So you will pay more to a salesman who brings you $10 in sales a week verses the guy who brings you $1000 a week? Simply because the guy who brings you $10 is physically bigger? You will go broke quickly...we aren't talking CEO versus lineman...we are talking front field versus front field...exact same positions.

 

[diz]

YOu simply do not read anything do you? this is why you are wrong 99% of the time in what you post because you simply do not read what people say and what other people say.
The judge dismissed the turf play. He said that there is 0 evidence nor could it be proven that it was discrimination.

What he did let go through was the travel and hotels and plane etc ... I agree that there should not be a difference and i have no problem with them
proving that in court. YOu need to read people's post and what they say and not what you want them to say.

They don't have to prove there was a difference, they have to prove the difference was a pretext for gender discrimination.

I think that will be a challenge.

Part of the rationale seems to have been that the men's coach asked for charter flights because he believed it kept the team at top form and the women's coach (who is a woman, btw.) didn't.

 

[ludin]

So you will pay more to a salesman who brings you $10 in sales a week verses the guy who brings you $1000 a week? Simply because the guy who brings you $10 is physically bigger? You will go broke quickly...we aren't talking CEO versus lineman...we are talking front field versus front field...exact same positions.

why do you lie?
is the bigger question.

Yep and playing goalie in the men league takes way more skill than in the women's league.

 

[diz]

So really there complaint is against FIFA not the US Soccer.

If FiFA is smart they'll get ahead of this and start setting their prizes as a percent of revenues too.