US Job Loss Report is Blow to Still Fragile Economy

[HILLBILLY]

Please stop with the Obama had to do this and Obama had to do that. Just as he was in the Senate, Obama is still nothing but a party drone. The best way to fix our job loss situation is to stop importing. There is very little that we need that we can't grow or build ourselves. Please vote out all incumbents for the betterment of this country.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Besides all that I am not even against some sort of stimulus. I would have preferred one that was more strategic in nature rather than the type we had. Something that had a payback.

I agree with that. Everyone had a different idea what the stimulus should have been, but those in power made the decisions. The ideal situation would have been if no stimulus was needed.

 

[The Prof]

endless excuses

and "ideal situations"

LOL!

most unpresidential

Sen. Bernie Sanders puts hold on Bernanke's 2nd term - Dec. 2, 2009

Fourth senator joins move to block Bernanke | Raw Story

Bernanke Under Attack: "We Had No Choice" | NBC Washington

Black Caucus blocks Wall St. vote - Victoria McGrane - POLITICO.com

 

[Cephus]

I don't trust Wall Street at all either, but it is probably better that the DOW is over 10k right now than at 2000 had it kept on dropping.
A lot of people saw it coming, the poor schmucks just trying to save for retirement didn't. I saw it coming. I bailed out of the market a couple weeks after it's high. I believe it is in for a major correction in the near future.

The problem is, none of the politicians want a correction, they want the stock market to run on wishful thinking and dreams like it has been for years. Look at the housing crash. Did any of the houses really increase in value or was it all on paper? Just because someone says your house is worth a billion dollars doesn't make it worth a billion dollars. I have a friend in real estate who tells me that my house is worth 4-5x what I paid for it, even today. Is it? Nope, I couldn't find someone to pay me that much for it so it's not really, but on paper, it probably is. Paper value doesn't mean a whole lot except to scammers who want to make money for nothing.

Back in the 90s in the dot-com boom, I made a ton of money in the market, when people were throwing money left and right at companies who had never produced a single product, just because they had a website. I got in and I got out, but I always recognized that it was a big sham. I told people not to keep their money there, they were betting on companies that never actually did anything, they were just shuffling paper around and lots of people lost tons of money betting on bad companies. The same was true of the housing scam, people were betting that property was worth money because they had a paper that said it was. They lost. Wall Street fell apart because they were passing around paper between them that wasn't worth anything. We still don't know how far this thing goes, the economic downturn is still not finished because we still have tons of homes, rental properties and commercial properties that haven't hit bottom yet. Unfortunately, all Obama wants is to go back to the days when credit was cheap and easy to get and people could buy stuff based on paper that had no value.

Those days are over. It's about time we realized that and acted accordingly.

 

[Donc]

The problem is, none of the politicians want a correction, they want the stock market to run on wishful thinking and dreams like it has been for years. Look at the housing crash. Did any of the houses really increase in value or was it all on paper? Just because someone says your house is worth a billion dollars doesn't make it worth a billion dollars. I have a friend in real estate who tells me that my house is worth 4-5x what I paid for it, even today. Is it? Nope, I couldn't find someone to pay me that much for it so it's not really, but on paper, it probably is. Paper value doesn't mean a whole lot except to scammers who want to make money for nothing.

Back in the 90s in the dot-com boom, I made a ton of money in the market, when people were throwing money left and right at companies who had never produced a single product, just because they had a website. I got in and I got out, but I always recognized that it was a big sham. I told people not to keep their money there, they were betting on companies that never actually did anything, they were just shuffling paper around and lots of people lost tons of money betting on bad companies. The same was true of the housing scam, people were betting that property was worth money because they had a paper that said it was. They lost. Wall Street fell apart because they were passing around paper between them that wasn't worth anything. We still don't know how far this thing goes, the economic downturn is still not finished because we still have tons of homes, rental properties and commercial properties that haven't hit bottom yet. Unfortunately, all Obama wants is to go back to the days when credit was cheap and easy to get and people could buy stuff based on paper that had no value.

Those days are over. It's about time we realized that and acted accordingly.

What!! And stop our cyber game of tag. I’m SHOCKED..SHOCKE,I tell ya. :shock:

 

[Cephus]

Please stop with the Obama had to do this and Obama had to do that. Just as he was in the Senate, Obama is still nothing but a party drone. The best way to fix our job loss situation is to stop importing. There is very little that we need that we can't grow or build ourselves. Please vote out all incumbents for the betterment of this country.

I don't think you can really just stop importing anymore, we no longer have the infrastructure to do the things that we'd need to do to get back to a "Buy American" plan. We're now set up as a consumer culture instead of a producer culture. It would have to be a long, slow process whereby we build up various industries and then transition from foreign-made products to American-made products, but I don't think the American people have the will to do it and certainly the government doesn't care enough to try. Just voting out incumbents won't better the country because all the people waiting in the wings are just as bad as the people you'd be voting out. Politicians exist only to feather their own nests and line their own pockets, intelligent people who want to improve the country are smart enough not to run for office, they know it's a waste of their time and money.

 

[Strucky]

Who can say if we would be in even worse shape without the measures taken? Obama was left with a sh*t sandswich and only a fool could believe anyone could turn things around by now.
Had Obama done nothing and a total economic collapse occurred he would have been blamed for that, too. This economic downturn started two years ago and will probably last for many more years.
I wish McCain would have won. We would still be in this mess.

I can tell you one thing....The stimulus didn't do a damn thing.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...act-road-projects-dont-help-unemployment.html

 

[EnigmaO01]

Kind of like wasting trillions in Iraq on nation building and regime change and charging it to our children? At least the stimulus is pumping money into our economy.
The 787 billion was mostly tax cuts, credits, unemployment extensions and aid to the hurting states and most of it hasn't been spent yet.
Bernanke said we needed economic stimulus so Obama was just following his advice. The best scenario would have been Obama taking over a sound economy, but that didn't happen.

Amazing isn't it? No problem with people like the prof spending billions in some far off bum **** country and getting good Americans killed, but heaven forbid we spend anywhere near that here. Never mind much of what was lent out has been paid back with interest or will be. Not so in Iraq. Once we leave they won't want us back and will be buddy buddy with Iran.

Does anyone else see how incredibly stupid thinking like this is?

 

[Dirty Harry]

I can tell you one thing....The stimulus didn't do a damn thing.

]

If you say so. The tax credits helped me.

 

[EnigmaO01]

I can tell you one thing....The stimulus didn't do a damn thing.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...act-road-projects-dont-help-unemployment.html

Not even repair much needed infrastructure Strucky? And I personally know folks in construction that would be out of work if it not for this spending. Their staying employed even trickled down to my business. Kind of makes me question the article.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Not even repair much needed infrastructure Strucky? And I personally know folks in construction that would be out of work if it not for this spending. Their staying employed even trickled down to my business. Kind of makes me question the article.

Lots of cops and firefighters still working too. Not to mention the millions more foreclosures we would be facing had unemployment benifits not been extended. The stimulus did have some effect.

 

[The Prof]

787B dollars, and the stimulus "did have some effect"

LOL!

well, i sure hope so

dang, as impotent as the president

1000 words but not a keystroke defending this doofus administration per any of the following:

taxes, penalties and regulations in health care and cap and trade, making for uncertainty in an already creaking job market

raising taxes on the middle class

taxing payroll

calling for GREEN jobs creation only

bailouts without strings

no lending

obscene profits and bonuses

a TRILLION dollar increase in the debt ceiling

murderous medicaid mandates on states already submerged

a quarter T doc fix

a quarter T of double counting

treasury's underwriting in full all aig obligations

the fed's pressure on aig to lie to the sec

the secret deal with phrma

deficits at 14% of gdp

interest on the debt soon to approach a T

10 years of health care taxes vs only 6 of benefits

taxing medical benefits

taxing energy at both ends, production and consumption, in the middle of a depression

a 3rd bailout of gmac---december

the roofless reconstruction of fannie and fred---december

the president's prioritizing social issues like health care and cap and trade ahead of JOBS

his having to call a JOBS SUMMIT in december, purpose of which is to brainstorm ways out

he ADMITS he doesn't have the answers

he's SEARCHING

his reaction to the december jobs report, at this late, critical stage---he will determinedly and forcefully EXPLORE every avenue

he ADMITS he doesn't have answers

people see these things, they know in their guts what they mean

sorry

so you wanna talk bush?

talk bush

 

[Cephus]

Lots of cops and firefighters still working too. Not to mention the millions more foreclosures we would be facing had unemployment benifits not been extended. The stimulus did have some effect.

But the question is, did it have a long-term effect or were there other ways to spend the money (or not spend it at all) that would have been better?

The stimulus was chock full of porkbarrel projects and things we should have been doing all along but ignored when times were good and money was readily available.

 

[The Prof]

8500 earmarks in stimulus:

Earmark reform? Stimulus bill contains 9,000 | National News - cleveland.com - - cleveland.com

As Earmarks Become Law, <br>House Announces Earmark Reforms - The Note

 

[HILLBILLY]

I don't think you can really just stop importing anymore, we no longer have the infrastructure to do the things that we'd need to do to get back to a "Buy American" plan. We're now set up as a consumer culture instead of a producer culture. It would have to be a long, slow process whereby we build up various industries and then transition from foreign-made products to American-made products, but I don't think the American people have the will to do it and certainly the government doesn't care enough to try. Just voting out incumbents won't better the country because all the people waiting in the wings are just as bad as the people you'd be voting out. Politicians exist only to feather their own nests and line their own pockets, intelligent people who want to improve the country are smart enough not to run for office, they know it's a waste of their time and money.

I am glad I don't have the defeatist attitude you have. I am not saying you are wrong, by no means, I am also saying there would have to be much more done besides stopping imports. It would be a long and slow process and would be for the better. I would stop the cradle to the grave entitlements(lazy ass welfare drones), work or starve.

Voing out all incumbents would be the best for us. It would show the politicians that they work for us, not the corporations. The job loss crisis is starting to wake up many people. The American people are being backed up against a wall and you can only push them against that wall for so long.

 

[Cephus]

I am glad I don't have the defeatist attitude you have. I am not saying you are wrong, by no means, I am also saying there would have to be much more done besides stopping imports. It would be a long and slow process and would be for the better. I would stop the cradle to the grave entitlements(lazy ass welfare drones), work or starve.

Voing out all incumbents would be the best for us. It would show the politicians that they work for us, not the corporations. The job loss crisis is starting to wake up many people. The American people are being backed up against a wall and you can only push them against that wall for so long.

Optimism or pessimism has nothing to do with reality. What is, is. There are lots of things we can argue that we ought to stop and I agree with you entirely, but actually getting it done is another matter entirely. We've had 40 years of American liberalization, where a good deal of the population thinks waking up in the morning entitles them to a reward. Those are the people you have to convince they're wrong and frankly, I don't think you can do it.

The problem with your blind "vote 'em all out" attitude is that it won't change the situation when we elect a whole load of new politicians that think exactly the same as the old ones we just removed. That's exactly the problem we're faced with, we no longer have the option of voting for good politicians who have the public good in mind, we vote for the lesser of the two (or howmany ever) evils. Given a choice, I wouldn't vote for any of the politicians running in most races at all, I don't want *ANY* of them in office, incumbent or not. All of them are the same screwed up, self-interested, egotistical douche bags that we've been electing for decades, how do you improve the political pool when the system is set up to support this kind of douchebaggery? You can't just elect better people when better people have no impetus to run.

 

[HILLBILLY]

Optimism or pessimism has nothing to do with reality. What is, is. There are lots of things we can argue that we ought to stop and I agree with you entirely, but actually getting it done is another matter entirely. We've had 40 years of American liberalization, where a good deal of the population thinks waking up in the morning entitles them to a reward. Those are the people you have to convince they're wrong and frankly, I don't think you can do it.

The problem with your blind "vote 'em all out" attitude is that it won't change the situation when we elect a whole load of new politicians that think exactly the same as the old ones we just removed. That's exactly the problem we're faced with, we no longer have the option of voting for good politicians who have the public good in mind, we vote for the lesser of the two (or howmany ever) evils. Given a choice, I wouldn't vote for any of the politicians running in most races at all, I don't want *ANY* of them in office, incumbent or not. All of them are the same screwed up, self-interested, egotistical douche bags that we've been electing for decades, how do you improve the political pool when the system is set up to support this kind of douchebaggery? You can't just elect better people when better people have no impetus to run.

Damn Cephus, talk about hittin the nail on the head. Most people that run for office these days are not there for one term they want to be there for a long time. So what do you think the people should do with the politicians?

 

[Cephus]

Damn Cephus, talk about hittin the nail on the head. Most people that run for office these days are not there for one term they want to be there for a long time. So what do you think the people should do with the politicians?

Honestly, I support serious political term limits. An individual can hold an elected office for 2 terms, period. Then they are required to spend at least a term in the private sector, not as a political hack, not as a lobbyist (which needs to be eliminated anyhow), but actually working for a living in a non-political capacity. It keeps them in touch with the people and with reality, something that I think lifelong politicians lose sight of. It will stop these ridiculous political dynasties, people who never do anything with their lives but run for various offices.

In reality though, the only way to change the political system is to change the American voter and I really don't know how to do it. You have to make them actually give a damn about who they put in office, most people vote party line or vote for who looks best on TV. Anyone who has a suggestion how to make American voters so damn stupid, please, let us all know.