Up to 90% of Americans may have some form of Covid immunity after delta wave, Dr. Gottlieb says

[Chomsky]

Actually it would be more correct to say "Those individuals have a natural ability to produce an antibody that works against _[fill in the blank]_ - even though they might not actually have those antibodies in their system at any given moment due to the fact that they haven't received the right "trigger" to initiate the production of those antibodies.".

fair enough. Well said.

That means that there is such a thing as "natural immunity" (bearing in mind that "immunity" varies in degree) - especially if "immunity" is defined as "an ability to defeat infection PRIOR to showing clinically significant signs of the infection".

That was exactly my point! Lucky them!

But we need to keep in mind there are other factors involved in familial living situations, so there's a shitload of variables.

I have no idea of the research or conclusions drawn since early-on in the pandemic. It's a fascinating subject. And who knows? Perhaps by now it's even been disproven, due to us earlier overlooking another unknown variable?

 

[Fletch]

Yes this 4th surge is finally waning. The question now is when will the next surge happen. There is no reason to think there will not be a 5th and 6th surge that again stresses our Medical infrastructure to its limits. Until we get at least 85% of our population vaccinated these surges will continue.

Between vaccinations and those who have had the virus and have a similar or greater degree of immunity, we are likely already there. So you can quit living in fear.

 

[iguanaman]

??

There has never been a federal employee vaccine mandate, 'till just recently!

And I gave you multiple programs that Biden tried before the mandates that you claimed did not exist. Every American was mandated to receive smallpox vaccinations until 1972. That is a mandate for EVERY American and it started in 1809!

The U.S. Has A Long Precedent For Vaccine Mandates​

 

[iguanaman]

Between vaccinations and those who have had the virus and have a similar or greater degree of immunity, we are likely already there. So you can quit living in fear.

Thanks for you learned medical opinion. It's not often we get an expert in communicable diseases to comment on this board.

 

[Ethel2]

Between vaccinations and those who have had the virus and have a similar or greater degree of immunity, we are likely already there. So you can quit living in fear.

What is the exact percentage of the population who have “had the virus”?
Until you KNOW that number your statement is meaningless.

 

[Slavister]

What is the exact percentage of the population who have “had the virus”?
Until you KNOW that number your statement is meaningless.

Not only that, just having had a virus a year ago is also probably not going to carry much protection at this point.

 

[Rawley]

I don't see it as political. I believe they are acting on (their believed) public policy.

?? Public policy is political. If it was health policy, they would recognize natural immunity allow people to test out if they refuse to get the shot. Biden and certain govs. need to say - "see - cases went down because I took action - I jabbed all those arms, Reelect me.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I just had a conversation with my doctor about this a while ago this am as I was utilizing my FREE (to me) BidenCare™ Healthcare plan.

His thoughts, and this was my GP not a virologist/infectious disease expert, but he said he thinks that so many people are now becoming infected that natural herd immunity will happen at some point not far off.

Of course he could be wrong, but thats what he told me this morning.
Also said our hospital ICU was about half COVID and half for everything else, and ICU was pretty full. He is very tired of COVID.

Also: my BidenCare™ Healthcare plan covered my visit 100%, covers bloodwork 100%, with ZERO premiums and ZERO deductibles!

Socialism R A W K S !!!!!! Thank you Mr. President!!!

 

[Rawley]

Yes this 4th surge is finally waning. The question now is when will the next surge happen. There is no reason to think there will not be a 5th and 6th surge that again stresses our Medical infrastructure to its limits. Until we get at least 85% of our population vaccinated these surges will continue.

Hooey. the surges will not stress out medical infrastructure to the limit. Each surge is an order of magnitude smaller than the last. Here is my county:

 

[Rawley]

What is the exact percentage of the population who have “had the virus”?
Until you KNOW that number your statement is meaningless.

At least 43 million that we are absolutely certain of. Could easily be 100 million.

 

[Rawley]

Not only that, just having had a virus a year ago is also probably not going to carry much protection at this point.

Why not?

 

[Slavister]

Why not?

1. natural immunity wanes over time even for the same strain

2. we now have a whole different variant in circulation (delta vs original back then)

P.S.

Hooey. the surges will not stress out medical infrastructure to the limit. Each surge is an order of magnitude smaller than the last. Here is my county:

View attachment 67356599

Your picture contradicts your own words. Your county first 2 waves were smaller than 3rd.

 

[Rawley]

1. natural immunity wanes over time even for the same strain

Who is telling you that?

2. we now have a whole different variant in circulation (delta vs original back then)

P.S.



Your picture contradicts your own words. Your county first 2 waves were smaller than 3rd.

We've had two surges: the one back in January and the one that is waning now. This one was 1/10 the magnitude of the first.

 

[Slavister]

Who is telling you that?

science

We've had two surges: the one back in January and the one that is waning now. This one was 1/10 the magnitude of the first.

nope. You clearly had a wave in spring of 2020 and summer of 2020 - see those bumps on your graph? It's just that your 3rd wave was much higher, but it does not make the first 2 waves non-exitent.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Those that get it, can expect respiratory ailments, some men can expect a loss of erectile functions, so I rather keep my distance, wash my hands, wear a mask, and get the booster when we get it here in Canada.

If there are those who are fine with 700,000 or what? A million? deaths, just so they can say we now have herd immunity, that is between them and their conscience.

You are not entitled to live at unlimited expense to others

 

[Rawley]

science


nope. You clearly had a wave in spring of 2020 and summer of 2020 - see those bumps on your graph? It's just that your 3rd wave was much higher, but it does not make the first 2 waves non-exitent.

I get it now. You're doing Biden science (otherwise known as "just makin shit up")

Real science says natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than the immunity imparted by a vaccination.

Natural SARS-CoV-2 infection induces more durable immunity than vaccination study suggests

Scientists from the USA have demonstrated that immunity induced by mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines in previously SARS-CoV-2-infected people has the highest robustness and durability with cross-reactivity against different viral variants.

www.news-medical.net

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine. In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the...

newsroom.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Luce]

You are not entitled to live at unlimited expense to others

Okay.

How much is a human life worth, specifically?

 

[Slavister]

I get it now. You're doing Biden science (otherwise known as "just makin shit up")

Funny enough, you are the one making shit up

Real science says natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than the immunity imparted by a vaccination.

None of your quoted studies contradict what I said. Natural immunity wanes (as in fact confirmed by your quoted Israel and US studies too). CCF study you quoted did not even say what you want it to say. All your studies looked at people for less than 1 year (5 months, 6 months and 7.5 months).

 

[Rawley]

None of your quoted studies contradict what I said. Natural immunity wanes (as in fact confirmed by your quoted Israel and US studies too). CCF study you quoted did not even say what you want it to say. All your studies are less than 1 year.

"Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

For many infectious diseases, naturally acquired immunity is known to be more powerful than vaccine-induced immunity and it often lasts a lifetime. Other coronaviruses that cause the serious human diseases severe acute respiratory syndrome and Middle East respiratory syndrome trigger robust and persistent immune responses. At the same time, several other human coronaviruses, which usually cause little more than colds, are known to reinfect people regularly."

 

[Slavister]

"Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

For many infectious diseases, naturally acquired immunity is known to be more powerful than vaccine-induced immunity and it often lasts a lifetime. Other coronaviruses that cause the serious human diseases severe acute respiratory syndrome and Middle East respiratory syndrome trigger robust and persistent immune responses. At the same time, several other human coronaviruses, which usually cause little more than colds, are known to reinfect people regularly."

Hmm ... I have not seen that study. I thought you were referring to the earlier Israel one. Interesting. Will take a look. Thanks for the link.

 

[Ethel2]

At least 43 million that we are absolutely certain of. Could easily be 100 million.

If that’s the current case count it’s 13% of the US population. Add that to the roughly 60% who are fully vaccinated and we are at 73%.
We probably need at least 90% to be immune one way or the other. And some of the cases (13%) also are fully vaccinated so the 73% is probably too high. You can’t double count them. What we really need is for the eligible unvaccinated people to get their shots.

 

[noonereal]

If that’s the current case count it’s 13% of the US population. Add that to the roughly 60% who are fully vaccinated and we are at 73%.
We probably need at least 90% to be immune one way or the other. And some of the cases (13%) also are fully vaccinated so the 73% is probably too high. You can’t double count them. What we really need is for the eligible unvaccinated people to get their shots.

what we really need is for the Delta booster to successfully complete trials and gain use authorization from the FDA.

 

[Lursa]

Funny enough, you are the one making shit up

None of your quoted studies contradict what I said. Natural immunity wanes (as in fact confirmed by your quoted Israel and US studies too). CCF study you quoted did not even say what you want it to say. All your studies looked at people for less than 1 year (5 months, 6 months and 7.5 months).

Here's the summary from one of his links.

The study findings reveal that natural infection induces moderate-intensity immunity against SARS-CoV-2 and its variants that remain stable for a long period. In contrast, mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine-induced immunity gradually declines with time, despite an early robust magnitude. Importantly, vaccines offer the highest level of protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in​

COVID-19 recovered individuals.​

​

Natural SARS-CoV-2 infection induces more durable immunity than vaccination study suggests

Scientists from the USA have demonstrated that immunity induced by mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines in previously SARS-CoV-2-infected people has the highest robustness and durability with cross-reactivity against different viral variants.

www.news-medical.net

That study determined that recovered individuals had immunity that lasted longer than non-exposed, vaxxed people. However the 'most protection' occurs in people who've recovered (had covid) and are vaxxed.

So if you were to depend on that study...the recommendation would be to get vaccinated.

 

[iguanaman]

Hooey. the surges will not stress out medical infrastructure to the limit. Each surge is an order of magnitude smaller than the last. Here is my county:

View attachment 67356599

Your county has not had the Delta wave yet. Maybe it will miss you maybe it will not. Here in Florida the Delta wave was the worst of the Pandemic. So here the surges are getting progressively worse.

 

[iguanaman]

?? Public policy is political. If it was health policy, they would recognize natural immunity allow people to test out if they refuse to get the shot. Biden and certain govs. need to say - "see - cases went down because I took action - I jabbed all those arms, Reelect me.

There is no test for immunity. The number of anti-bodies needed for protection varies from person to person. What we do know is that if you have had covid and get the vaccine you are better protected from breakthrough cases than those without a vaccine.

Each person will mount a different immune response​

Everyone’s immune response will vary based on their genetics, how they were exposed to the virus, and which variant they will respond to.
“All that plays a role in deciding what neutralizing antibodies get developed by the individual,” Rizzo said.
There’s also the question of how long those antibodies remain viable and effective, which remains unclear.
“Everybody’s immunogenetics are different,” says Lahita. Some people have a robust immune system, while others have weaker defenses.
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...person-will-mount-a-different-immune-response