- Joined
- Aug 27, 2005
- Messages
- 43,602
- Reaction score
- 26,256
- Location
- Houston, TX
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Same-sex marriage bans have faced a number of legal challenges over the years, but a new lawsuit from the United Church of Christ is apparently the first challenge in the courts to invoke religious liberty. The suit will ask a district court in North Carolina to strike down the state's laws barring same-sex marriages, in part because a provision that makes it a misdemeanor for clergy to perform the ceremonies violates the church's religious freedom. A number of same-sex couples have also joined the suit, petitioning for the right to marry.
It's official. The world's gone mad.
I thought that was the starting presumption for a paleocon.
True. This is just further confirmation.
Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.
Discussion?
Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.
Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.
Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.
Surely you don't agree with arresting or fining a priest for performing a private ceremony because the state demands that their piece of paper must be present authorizing that ceremony.
If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.
So you are ok with the State forcing views on religious organizations as long as you agree with those views?
They don't have to agree with the law.
What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.
Discussion?
Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.
Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.
Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.
Churches don't perform marriages. They perform weddings. There's a big difference. No church is prevented from performing a same-sex wedding.
What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?
So, I'm against this lawsuit, and my opposition has nothing to do with gay rights.
Oh ok, so you have no problem with the state forcing religious insitutions to pass out condoms then. AFterall, they don't have to agree with the law right?
What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?
So, I'm against this lawsuit, and my opposition has nothing to do with gay rights.
No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.But the marriage they are conducting is a purely ceremonial and religious. They are not conducting a municipal contract.
No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.
the state has intruded into religious turfState law says it is a misdemeanor crime for ministers to perform a marriage ceremony without having a marriage license for a couple.
If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.
No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.
So many people still believe gay marriage is about gays and marriage. It never was. In this case it's about dissolving the wall of separation.
Wow, so you literally want the state to dictate which private ceremonies are approved and which ones aren't.
Try aren't signing a marriage certificate illegally. They are holding a private ceremony. Should we also punish people for holding an Easter mass in a manner that the state doesn't recognize?
Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.
Discussion?
Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.
Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.
Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.
So who is stopping the United Church of Christ from performing a wedding for gay couples? Isn't the church only supposed to worry about the spiritual function of the wedding rather than the politics the couple may or may not face out in the world?
The state should disallow fraudulent marriage ceremonies.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?