Underage Abortions

[Stopandthink]

Yes at 3 days old it is so unique it has not even a gender

Maybe you are not familiar with genetic coding

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Maybe you are not familiar with genetic coding

It doesn't matter about genetic coding

Still doesn't change the fact it's easily replaceable and this unique argument is weak because every animal on this planet is genetically unique yet we dispose of them everyday so the same concept and logic applies to the human zygote as well and the unborn

When you think about it more you will see humans remain quite consistent with what they do on this planet.

Pro choicers dethroned the special treatment that one particular species (humans) have been getting and lifers don't like that one bit at all

 

[Stopandthink]

1. These properties is how someone will value something and the rest of 1 was just stupid

2. Actually the zygote is replaceable because you make more through sperm and egg I don't care for the ''You can never make another duplicate for it crap'' lifers like to spout out

1) yes all you are doing is coming up with a set of standards you feel gives humanity moral worth. Yours happen to be communication, consciousness, etc. all which vary from one human to another and can be argued as to when or how these standards are met. My example follows your logic.
2) yep they are all unique. The value you put on them or making more of them doesn't change that fact.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1) yes all you are doing is coming up with a set of standards you feel gives humanity moral worth. Yours happen to be communication, consciousness, etc. all which vary from one human to another and can be argued as to when or how these standards are met. My example follows your logic.
2) yep they are all unique. The value you put on them or making more of them doesn't change that fact.

1. My set of properties is why non human animals are given more consideration then the human zygote. Your little logic example was based on physical appearences while my was not. I throw away 30 human zygotes most won't have a problem with it but if I throw away a box of kittens into the garbage can most will have a problem with it. Why is this?

2. And the fact still remains they're all replaceable

 

[Stopandthink]

So what?

I like details

 

[minnie616]

..Also that zygote can't be replaced. There will never be another duplicate.

Well, except for cloning or maybe using a future type of 3D printer.

 

[minnie616]

Well, except for cloning or maybe using a future type of 3D printer.

I read an interesting article yesterday that Scientists created a 3D-printed bionic ear that can "hear" radio waves

A Princeton University team has successfully merged electronics and biology to create a functional ear that can “hear” radio frequencies. The tissue and antenna were merged via the use of an “off-the -shelf” 3D printer, and the results have the potential to not only restore but actually enhance human hearing in the future.

The notion of cybernetics is something that has existed in science fiction for decades, and has become the focus of significant scientific research in recent years. While developments such as bionic eyes and mind-controlled prosthetic arms have allowed for the partial restoration of senses or a higher level of control, the Princeton team's efforts are a significant step forward in the field – combining electronics and biology through the use of 3D printing.

This isn't the first time that 3D printing has been used to create artificial body parts. In February this year, researchers from Cornell University announced a successful project creating realistic external ears – known as pinna – using a 3D printing technique.

Read more:

Scientists create 3D-printed bionic ear that can "hear" radio waves



Scientists create 3D-printed bionic ear that can "hear" radio waves

 

[Un biased]

Maybe you are not familiar with genetic coding

Human Reproduction

Day 1: first cleavage - 1 cell becomes 2

Day 2: second cleavage - 4-cell stage

Day 3: 6-12 cell stage - can test at this stage for genetic diseases if done by IVF

Day 4: 16-32 cell stage - solid ball of cells - morula
So bye day 3 it is not even a morula the cells aren't even done dividing it does not have a heartbeat or ligments eyes or a brain it has less than a fruit fly

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It doesn't matter about genetic coding

Still doesn't change the fact it's easily replaceable and this unique argument is weak because every animal on this planet is genetically unique yet we dispose of them everyday so the same concept and logic applies to the human zygote as well and the unborn

not that I disagree with abortion, but talk about weak arguments. Your equivocating between something that will mature into a dog and another that will mature into a human.

There is a clear difference there

 

[Stopandthink]

1. My set of properties is why non human animals are given more consideration then the human zygote. Your little logic example was based on physical appearences while my was not. I throw away 30 human zygotes most won't have a problem with it but if I throw away a box of kittens into the garbage can most will have a problem with it. Why is this?

2. And the fact still remains they're all replaceable

1)a.whats the difference
b. i dont feel that way but for those that do, it appeals to emotion. A kitten is tangible. A zygote is not. It is illogical though because even if we haven't tangibly identified something, science has done it for us through coding.
2) just like your child can be replaced with another one

 

[mac]

A woman is not pregnant until the zygote implants.
About two thirds of zygotes never implant and even more self abort within the first week of implantation.

Regardless of when the pregnancy officially starts, the new life has begun.

 

[mac]

Human Reproduction

Day 1: first cleavage - 1 cell becomes 2

Growth.

Day 2: second cleavage - 4-cell stage

More growth.

Day 3: 6-12 cell stage - can test at this stage for genetic diseases if done by IVF

Day 4: 16-32 cell stage - solid ball of cells - morula
So bye day 3 it is not even a morula the cells aren't even done dividing it does not have a heartbeat or ligments eyes or a brain it has less than a fruit fly

That doesn't make it any less than a growing and developing unique life.

 

[choiceone]

I understand where you are coming from, but it still doesn't seem right that a child under a parents supervision, the parents do not have to be at least notified. Yes, today we have a lot more sick parents who seem not to care one iota about their kids than when I grew up. I don't like it, but I guess times change.

I understand where you are coming from, too, but as long as a child under a parent's supervision can be violated by the parent against the law, what can we do? And I'm not sure we have a lot more sick parents today - it's quite possible that we just have more exposure of the sickos. All sorts of child abuse occurred and was never exposed when the child was still a child in the 1950s and 1960s, but when the children who survived had grown up, some of them admitted it or this was found out some other way. The main virtue of the 1960s and 1970s was actually an insistence on not hiding the truth - and this resulted in discovering a lot of dirty details about our society that had been brushed under the rug for a very long time.

 

[choiceone]

Good morning, Pero. :2wave:

I read an article the other day which stated that we, as humans, have been "hard-wired," since the early caveman, to care for and protect our offspring. Even the animal life on this planet, both wild and domesticated, have that instinct. Why has that disappeared in some people, and even worse, what kind of adults can we expect those offspring to grow up to be? :afraid:

On infanticide regardless of species: Infanticide (zoology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Excerpt: Maternal infanticide occurs when newborn offspring are killed by their mother. This is sometimes seen in pigs,[30] a behavior known as savaging, which affects up to 5% of gilts. Similar behavior has been observed in various animals such as rabbits[31] and burying beetles.[32]PaternalPaternal infanticide—where fathers eat their own offspring—may also occur. When young bass hatch from the spawn, the father guards the area, circling around them and keeping them together, as well as providing protection from would-be predators. After a few days, most of the fish will swim away. At this point the male's behavior changes: instead of defending the stragglers, he treats them as any other small prey, and eats them.[33]

On human infanticide and its very long history: Infanticide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On causes and consequences of offspring abuse in a non-human primate species: ScienceDirect.com - Aggression and Violent Behavior - Causes and consequences of infant abuse and neglect in monkeys

 

[choiceone]

No, that's another example of your "logic".

Let me break it down to small words for you:

Why do you think we have an age of consent that far exceeds our physiological adulthood?

Because we're civilized. If we did not have this age of consent and kids could leave school at 10 or 12 or never go at all, if we had 14 year olds getting pregnant and just getting married when that happened, we would have to be a largely agrarian society that provided a sufficient way for uneducated people to support their living.

 

[Removable Mind]

A woman is not pregnant until the zygote implants.
About two thirds of zygotes never implant and even more self abort within the first week of implantation.

And if you don't mind, I'd like to add to your comments:

Whenever a zygote implants...and the living cells within that zygote begin to divide...and the woman who host its presence doesn't want it to remain in her body...then she has every right to have it removed.

Is a zygote a human life? Certainly the beginning of one...but that's not the issue with abortion. The issue is: Does a woman who lives among the born have any moral obligation to gestate the zygote to birth? NO, not only NO, but hell NO!

Thanks, Minnie...

 

[polgara]

On infanticide regardless of species: Infanticide (zoology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Excerpt: Maternal infanticide occurs when newborn offspring are killed by their mother. This is sometimes seen in pigs,[30] a behavior known as savaging, which affects up to 5% of gilts. Similar behavior has been observed in various animals such as rabbits[31] and burying beetles.[32]PaternalPaternal infanticide—where fathers eat their own offspring—may also occur. When young bass hatch from the spawn, the father guards the area, circling around them and keeping them together, as well as providing protection from would-be predators. After a few days, most of the fish will swim away. At this point the male's behavior changes: instead of defending the stragglers, he treats them as any other small prey, and eats them.[33]

On human infanticide and its very long history: Infanticide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On causes and consequences of offspring abuse in a non-human primate species: ScienceDirect.com - Aggression and Violent Behavior - Causes and consequences of infant abuse and neglect in monkeys

Good afternoon, choiceone. :2wave:

I didn't know that! :thanks: for the info! I like this site because of all the new things you learn...better than college, and no student loans to pay back! What's not to like? :thumbs:

 

[mac]

Because we're civilized. If we did not have this age of consent and kids could leave school at 10 or 12 or never go at all, if we had 14 year olds getting pregnant and just getting married when that happened, we would have to be a largely agrarian society that provided a sufficient way for uneducated people to support their living.

Why wouldn't they, at that age, just decide to put off having children and continue their educations until they are at a sufficient point to raise a family?

 

[choiceone]

Good afternoon, choiceone. :2wave:

I didn't know that! :thanks: for the info! I like this site because of all the new things you learn...better than college, and no student loans to pay back! What's not to like? :thumbs:

You're welcome.

 

[choiceone]

Why wouldn't they, at that age, just decide to put off having children and continue their educations until they are at a sufficient point to raise a family?

Partly because they are not adults at that age, many of them do not think through their decisions in a way that is fully adult. But the other part is that lots of people do not think about having kids - some don't even want to have them as adults. They think that sexual intimacy is not for the purpose of producing kids, but is for the purpose of sexual intimacy. Contraception made it clear to them that one not only can have sex for the purpose of increasing the intimacy of a close bond without producing children, but also that the purposes of increasing that intimacy and producing children are very unrelated and have very different results. In a world where women did not have equal education or work opportunities, contraception was outlawed, the government distinguished between legitimate and illegitimate children and society punished the children conceived and born outside of marriage, your suggestion would also have made little sense, since a huge majority of people never reached a sufficient point to raise a family and widespread poverty and diseases killed a lot of them off.

 

[mac]

Partly because they are not adults at that age, many of them do not think through their decisions in a way that is fully adult.

Right. They need the guidance of caring adults to help them make sensible, thought out decisions.

/thread

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1. A kitten is tangible. A zygote is not. It is illogical though because even if we haven't tangibly identified something, science has done it for us through coding.
2) just like your child can be replaced with another one

1. Missing the point here Humans normally value things on how they feel, how they think, and how they act which is why more consideration is given towards non human animals then the human zygote and I still see you ranting on about coding :lol:. There is no appeal to emotions because I am telling you like it is and how human normally operation and why abortion is accepted throughout most of the developed nations. Objections towards ESCR and abortion are indirect considerations and not productive in the long run

2. Exactly You can call the unborn anything you want children, humans, parasites etc still doesn't change the fact they're replaceable just like any other form of other animal on this planet

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

......

Still replaceable no matter how you want to slice it

Once you push aside the sanctity of human life view, intrinsic value this and inherent value that you will come to the same conclusion like I did many years ago

 

[JayDubya]

1. These properties is how someone will value something and the rest of 1 was just stupid

2. Actually the zygote is replaceable because you make more through sperm and egg I don't care for the ''You can never make another duplicate for it crap'' lifers like to spout out

Unfortunately, the only crap or stupidity in evidence is what you're dumping on the monitor in front of me.

Human beings are not replaceable. We are not interchangeable. At this point we're not even clone-able, and even a clone isn't going to be identical.

Time and time again your statements reveal you to be a misanthrope. But then, most collectivists are.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Still replaceable no matter how you want to slice it

What kind of argument is that?

Once you push aside the sanctity of human life view, intrinsic value this and inherent value that you will come to the same conclusion like I did many years ago

I'm not even endorsing some idea of sanctity, I'm pointing out that a human is clearly different than an animal.