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Under Trump -- Is America Important?

Atheist 2020

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It is shocking to me that the Baby Boom Generation protested the Vietnam War to get out of a military conflict. When they gained political power, they turned around and gave us two wars were we really lost both wars. We have protected both governments that are weak and unstable, does not really have the support of their citizens.

The citizens of America are lazy, and uninterested in foreign policy. The Republicans are going to run on the Wall and abortion -- and a vast amount of Americans are going to vote that way.

If I was a political leader in Germany, the 2020's and 2030's will be the new era of German economic power in Central Europe and the whole of Europe. America wants to build a wall, and withdraw from North America countries and willing to withdraw from understanding Mexico and Canada. The United Kingdom is in a mess with breaking away from the European Union. Even after Trump leaves the White House, the American conservative movement will mirror France during the 1950's and 1960's.

If I was from Europe, or Asia. I see the American military, spending billions of dollars with a Navy, with a Navy carrier costing billions of dollars. And a military plane that cost millions of dollars to be built. Sending a carrier with its planes to a war zone, and the plane has thousands of dollars of weapons. And the Americans cheer when a plane use a bomb costing thousands of dollars to blow up a pick-up truck. But, it turns into a entertainment show for the Americans. Japan had carriers too, and on December 7, 1941 -- they were not going after pick-up trucks. I see America want to build a wall, and withdraw from North America. And supports spending billions of dollars to kill someone in a pick-up truck.

America is no longer the rational political power of the world.
 

Nap

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It is shocking to me that the Baby Boom Generation protested the Vietnam War to get out of a military conflict. When they gained political power, they turned around and gave us two wars were we really lost both wars. We have protected both governments that are weak and unstable, does not really have the support of their citizens.

The citizens of America are lazy, and uninterested in foreign policy. The Republicans are going to run on the Wall and abortion -- and a vast amount of Americans are going to vote that way.

If I was a political leader in Germany, the 2020's and 2030's will be the new era of German economic power in Central Europe and the whole of Europe. America wants to build a wall, and withdraw from North America countries and willing to withdraw from understanding Mexico and Canada. The United Kingdom is in a mess with breaking away from the European Union. Even after Trump leaves the White House, the American conservative movement will mirror France during the 1950's and 1960's.

If I was from Europe, or Asia. I see the American military, spending billions of dollars with a Navy, with a Navy carrier costing billions of dollars. And a military plane that cost millions of dollars to be built. Sending a carrier with its planes to a war zone, and the plane has thousands of dollars of weapons. And the Americans cheer when a plane use a bomb costing thousands of dollars to blow up a pick-up truck. But, it turns into a entertainment show for the Americans. Japan had carriers too, and on December 7, 1941 -- they were not going after pick-up trucks. I see America want to build a wall, and withdraw from North America. And supports spending billions of dollars to kill someone in a pick-up truck.

America is no longer the rational political power of the world.

Simple fact, as long as the US controls the strongest military in the world, they will continue to be the political power. The only question is when China will surpass the US.
 

Oborosen

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Of course America is important. It doesn't matter if Trump is the president, or not.

I don't see what you're trying to get at though. If you want to complain about how much the US puts into it's military programs, or even compare them to those of other countries. Then I would first suggest comparing it to a country that the US itself isn't helping to defend. As one of the main reasons our country is so important, is that everyone, for some reason. Looks to us as a country to be a nearly constant global police force.

In all generality I don't really care for the wall, But I'm not going to say that building such a defense isn't exactly necessary. Seeing how many people come across illegally each year and become even more of a drain on our economy. This goes without mentioning the criminal element in that equation as well. Whereas Canada can do as it wants on that regard, though I don't understand what you mean by saying that the US is withdrawing from understand Mexico & Canada. It looks more like they are unwilling to understand the US' position in all of this.

Both of these countries are far from being perfect and with Trudeau doing as he's been for the last few years. While Obrador can't seem to keep his own country in check. I would suggest they first attempt to clean up their own messes before critiquing the US.

Also, if you want say America is no longer the rational political power in the world. You would only be partially correct, because no political power is rational. It will always veer towards a consensus and in many cases, that consensus will never be based in rational thought.

There are still countries that allow their own citizens to be killed on a normal basis by political opposition That allow for religious minorities to be massacred with barely any aid from the authorities.

We may not be the most rational, or the most stable. But the US is still doing far better than many of the other countries out there.
 

Hedgology

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LMAO! Name a single world leader who commands more than 100,000 active military personnel that is popular right now?

The Tories and the Liberal Democrats are both unified in their hatred of Theresa May; Merkel's approval rating is in the toilet and isn't seeking re-election; Macron's own country is revolting against him.

The technocracy is a complete failure. The only one left is Trump, LMAO!
 

Hawkeye10

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It is shocking to me that the Baby Boom Generation protested the Vietnam War to get out of a military conflict. When they gained political power, they turned around and gave us two wars were we really lost both wars. We have protected both governments that are weak and unstable, does not really have the support of their citizens.

The citizens of America are lazy, and uninterested in foreign policy. The Republicans are going to run on the Wall and abortion -- and a vast amount of Americans are going to vote that way.

If I was a political leader in Germany, the 2020's and 2030's will be the new era of German economic power in Central Europe and the whole of Europe. America wants to build a wall, and withdraw from North America countries and willing to withdraw from understanding Mexico and Canada. The United Kingdom is in a mess with breaking away from the European Union. Even after Trump leaves the White House, the American conservative movement will mirror France during the 1950's and 1960's.

If I was from Europe, or Asia. I see the American military, spending billions of dollars with a Navy, with a Navy carrier costing billions of dollars. And a military plane that cost millions of dollars to be built. Sending a carrier with its planes to a war zone, and the plane has thousands of dollars of weapons. And the Americans cheer when a plane use a bomb costing thousands of dollars to blow up a pick-up truck. But, it turns into a entertainment show for the Americans. Japan had carriers too, and on December 7, 1941 -- they were not going after pick-up trucks. I see America want to build a wall, and withdraw from North America. And supports spending billions of dollars to kill someone in a pick-up truck.

America is no longer the rational political power of the world.

The rational global power is The New Chinese Empire.....China and Russia.

The West is in broad collapse.
 

Oborosen

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Simple fact, as long as the US controls the strongest military in the world, they will continue to be the political power. The only question is when China will surpass the US.

Seeing as we have almost 6x the number of carriers than they do. I think it's going to be some time before that actually happens.

Even if they were to partner up with Russia and another ally, we'd still have them all beat sheer in tonnage at that point.
 

tosca1

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LMAO! Name a single world leader who commands more than 100,000 active military personnel that is popular right now?

The Tories and the Liberal Democrats are both unified in their hatred of Theresa May; Merkel's approval rating is in the toilet and isn't seeking re-election; Macron's own country is revolting against him.

The technocracy is a complete failure. The only one left is Trump, LMAO!

....and to think that it was Trump who'd galvanized the populist movement - unwittingly, or not.
 

Mycroft

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It is shocking to me that the Baby Boom Generation protested the Vietnam War to get out of a military conflict. When they gained political power, they turned around and gave us two wars were we really lost both wars. We have protected both governments that are weak and unstable, does not really have the support of their citizens.

The citizens of America are lazy, and uninterested in foreign policy. The Republicans are going to run on the Wall and abortion -- and a vast amount of Americans are going to vote that way.

If I was a political leader in Germany, the 2020's and 2030's will be the new era of German economic power in Central Europe and the whole of Europe. America wants to build a wall, and withdraw from North America countries and willing to withdraw from understanding Mexico and Canada. The United Kingdom is in a mess with breaking away from the European Union. Even after Trump leaves the White House, the American conservative movement will mirror France during the 1950's and 1960's.

If I was from Europe, or Asia. I see the American military, spending billions of dollars with a Navy, with a Navy carrier costing billions of dollars. And a military plane that cost millions of dollars to be built. Sending a carrier with its planes to a war zone, and the plane has thousands of dollars of weapons. And the Americans cheer when a plane use a bomb costing thousands of dollars to blow up a pick-up truck. But, it turns into a entertainment show for the Americans. Japan had carriers too, and on December 7, 1941 -- they were not going after pick-up trucks. I see America want to build a wall, and withdraw from North America. And supports spending billions of dollars to kill someone in a pick-up truck.

America is no longer the rational political power of the world.

Why do you care?

Look. You've been very clear in past posts that your allegiance lies with Canada. That the only reason you are still living in the US is because you want to get your SS. You've admitted that when the day comes, you'll beat feet north. I'm not pointing this out to criticize you. Your future plans are your own business. I wish you health and happiness in whatever you do. I just wonder why you care about the US?

Anyway, much of your OP has nothing to do with Trump. Much of it has nothing to do with America being a political power or not. Much of your OP, that does relate to Trump or America, has such a narrow focus...wall, abortion, withdraw, military...that it's almost impossible to discuss world political power, except in a most general sense. You've set some baselines in your perception, but it's not enough. Frankly, I simply decline to take up your superficial, generalized topic.

What I will talk about...challenge, in fact...is your notion that America (actually Trump) wants to withdraw from NA countries or that America is not willing to understand Mexico and Canada. I would contend neither notion is true. If you want to take up that challenge, let me know.
 

jnug

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Is America Important?

More and more it is becoming important as a carcass to be picked over. The huge chasm between America and the rest of the world was bound to contract some as a consequence of globalization. It was contracting at a faster rate than than it should have because our leaders did not hold up their end of the globalization bargain they made with their own people.

The truth of it is that there is one facet of the globalism effort that is nothing more than vultures lining up to pick us over. Trump is just another globalist looking to pick over the carcass of US financial might and geopolitical power. Trump has exponentially accelerated the pace the vultures are picking us over. In fact, he is Vulture in Chief. In that sense, you folks Trump has convinced he is not a globalist got had AGAIN.
 

noonereal

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It is shocking to me that the Baby Boom Generation protested the Vietnam War to get out of a military conflict. When they gained political power, they turned around and gave us two wars were we really lost both wars. We have protected both governments that are weak and unstable, does not really have the support of their citizens.

The citizens of America are lazy, and uninterested in foreign policy. The Republicans are going to run on the Wall and abortion -- and a vast amount of Americans are going to vote that way.

If I was a political leader in Germany, the 2020's and 2030's will be the new era of German economic power in Central Europe and the whole of Europe. America wants to build a wall, and withdraw from North America countries and willing to withdraw from understanding Mexico and Canada. The United Kingdom is in a mess with breaking away from the European Union. Even after Trump leaves the White House, the American conservative movement will mirror France during the 1950's and 1960's.

If I was from Europe, or Asia. I see the American military, spending billions of dollars with a Navy, with a Navy carrier costing billions of dollars. And a military plane that cost millions of dollars to be built. Sending a carrier with its planes to a war zone, and the plane has thousands of dollars of weapons. And the Americans cheer when a plane use a bomb costing thousands of dollars to blow up a pick-up truck. But, it turns into a entertainment show for the Americans. Japan had carriers too, and on December 7, 1941 -- they were not going after pick-up trucks. I see America want to build a wall, and withdraw from North America. And supports spending billions of dollars to kill someone in a pick-up truck.

America is no longer the rational political power of the world.

What's your point?
 

noonereal

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Is America Important?

More and more it is becoming important as a carcass to be picked over. The huge chasm between America and the rest of the world was bound to contract some as a consequence of globalization. It was contracting at a faster rate than than it should have because our leaders did not hold up their end of the globalization bargain they made with their own people.

The truth of it is that there is one facet of the globalism effort that is nothing more than vultures lining up to pick us over. Trump is just another globalist looking to pick over the carcass of US financial might and geopolitical power. Trump has exponentially accelerated the pace the vultures are picking us over. In fact, he is Vulture in Chief. In that sense, you folks Trump has convinced he is not a globalist got had AGAIN.

Dude, you are over the top.
 

jnug

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Dude, you are over the top.

No I'm not. The defining moment of the 20th Century was WW2. The entire world including the US has simply been readjusting and reordering itself from then till now. WW2 made America what it was geopolitically from 1945 to the end of the century. Once the rest of the world picked through its rubble as a part of that process, this was bound to happen. Simply a matter of how fast and how well we adapted ourselves to that reality. Frankly, we have done a lousy job of it so far and it shows.

Unless we were willing to recreate WW2 and its consequences all over again, we were NEVER going to be as well off geopolitically as we were from about 1945 to the beginning of the 1990's. We simply did not handle a once in ten generations opportunity as well as we could have.
 

noonereal

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No I'm not. The defining moment of the 20th Century was WW2. The entire world including the US has simply been readjusting and reordering itself from then till now. WW2 made America what it was geopolitically from 1945 to the end of the century. Once the rest of the world picked through its rubble as a part of that process, this was bound to happen. Simply a matter of how fast and how well we adapted ourselves to that reality. Frankly, we have done a lousy job of it so far and it shows.

Unless we were willing to recreate WW2 and its consequences all over again, we were NEVER going to be as well off geopolitically as we were from about 1945 to the beginning of the 1990's. We simply did not handle a once in ten generations opportunity as well as we could have.

I don't even know what the **** you are talking about.

We emerged from WW2 as the sole economic power and we built the free world to be dependent on us. We did a masterful job and still enjoy the fruits of the advantages we set for our self post WW2.

WTF is it you are complaining about?

Good grief.
 

Atheist 2020

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Simple fact, as long as the US controls the strongest military in the world, they will continue to be the political power. The only question is when China will surpass the US.

During the 1960's and before: America had the strongest military in the would. It still lost in Vietnam. We are losing the two wars we are into right now. Who really fears the United States?
 

jnug

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I don't even know what the **** you are talking about.

We emerged from WW2 as the sole economic power and we built the free world to be dependent on us. We did a masterful job and still enjoy the fruits of the advantages we set for our self post WW2.

WTF is it you are complaining about?

Good grief.

We consumed our way through an opportunity we will NEVER have again. We virtually did very little right after the Marshall Plan. We elevated the Soviet Union, a country that spent most of its post WW2 time on the brink of starvation, into the great satan at the same moment inflating a political philosophy, Communism that was always doomed to failure to credibility it would never have achieved if left to its own devices. In the meantime we convinced ourselves of the "domino theory" and wasted God knows how much treasure and 58,000 US dead sure that Communism would just envelop Southeast Asia and then the world if we did not meet and beat it in Vietnam.

At least then we understood and accepted that the only dif between the despotic world leaders we supported and despotic world leaders they supported was that some of them were ours and some of them were theirs. We did not feel compelled to elevate these buffoons to the status of Nobel Prize winners just because they were our despots. One thing we have not adapted to at all is the speed with which technologies that we developed have changed the world forever. Now, the entire world knows MBS killed Khashoogi about 5 minutes after it happened, not 5 hours, not 5 days, not 5 weeks. So its a little harder now and frankly obtuse to an absurd level to try to pull off treating clowns like MBS like they are a different breed of Camel Jockey Potentate than their Camel Jockey Potentate predecessors.

We have been stupid enough to elect a President that is just mired in the post WW2 era glory days from 1945 though to the glitz, glare and ghoulish waste of the 1980's,. We have elected a guy that denies history, does not know history but who is yet utterly bound by it, actually consumed by it and his own personal wealth ambitions. A fair amount of us deny history, don't know our history and are utterly bound by a period of time that is simply not repeatable under any reasonable set of current day circumstances. I would say about 35-40% of us fit in that category. That is the resonant cord Trump struck and the fact that he did says more about us than it does about him.

What is your point? Do you really think we are where we should be or could have been 70 odd years after the end of WW2? Is the "free world" really going to be dependent on us for anything more than aircraft carriers and other forms of military might? Is that really what we want to be in this world? How long is that really sustainable particularly when we are picking at our own carcass from within as much as anybody else is picking at us? Do you really think the quality of our leadership or our discourse speaks well for us? Look at the WH. Look at Virginia for God sake. Look at the ridiculous pretzels we are willing to bend ourselves into because we simply will not come to terms with history and the slow and stilted arc of Justice we have been on from the inception of the country till now not to mention our place in the world.

Are you trying to make the case that globalism is a good thing or a bad thing? Maybe it was just an inevitable phenomenon which we needed to manage better which is my position. Are you saying that protectionism and ultra-nationalism makes sense in the 21st Century or does not? Who the heck side are you on anyway? If you are stuck in Trump's mid-20th Century time warp whatever side you think you are on, its the losing side.
 
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noonereal

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Do you really think we are where we should be or could have been 70 odd years after the end of WW2?

Realistically, yes.

Everything can always be better, everything could have always been worse.

All in all we are the worlds all time success story.



Are you trying to make the case that globalism is a good thing or a bad thing?

I am not trying to make any case, I am trying to figure out WTF you are enraged about.
 

Atheist 2020

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Right now , our allies.

At mid-century, the leadership of Europe will be Germany within the European Union. The United Kingdom leaving the European Union -- is a self inflicted knife cut. It will take time to bleed out. With America withdrawing from understanding the world -- the United Kingdom could be breaking up as a political union.
 

Nap

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During the 1960's and before: America had the strongest military in the would. It still lost in Vietnam. We are losing the two wars we are into right now. Who really fears the United States?

That ultimately is how you define lose. We are in more than 2 wars, but we aren't losing any of them. The problem is we go into these countries with no real objective and just stay for a prolonged period bombing people for little or no reason.

As far as who fears the US, everyone.
 

Atheist 2020

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That ultimately is how you define lose. We are in more than 2 wars, but we aren't losing any of them. The problem is we go into these countries with no real objective and just stay for a prolonged period bombing people for little or no reason.

As far as who fears the US, everyone.

It cost billions of dollars to build a navy carrier with other ships in a task force. It costs millions of dollars to build a navy fighter jet. It cost billions of dollars to keep both in combat mode. Then, we watch a navy fighter jet destroy a pick up, with a driver that may not be able to read or right: and does not have any skills to get a visa to the United States. We watch the video like it is a entertainment product. I do not fear the United States Navy nor would I if I live in a foreign country. We bombed North Vietnam and we still lost. We blow up pick up trucks and it's just entertainment. Do not fear the United States military.
 
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