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Unanswered questions in regards to 9/11[W:762]

Unanswered question:

Why does it take an FOIA to examine AE911T's financial record? If it is an NFP organisation, what's to hide?
 
... I just doubt that the hijackers were able to even board the planes in the first place supposedly because U.S. Intelligence had failed so miserably and couldn't imagine planes being used as weapons, ironically enough as the C.I.A. had used a plane laden with explosives as a weapon in Nicaragua in the early '80's during the Contra operation.

Before 9/11 airport security was very different. I recall they checked your ticket not even compared it to ID... I don't think there was a watch list at that time either. DHS didn't exist and there was... IIRC no "no fly list" at the time... Post 9/11 this list grew to 1,000,000. I think boarding a plane with a ticket was very easy back then. Odd that there are so few vids of the airport in the public record... domestic airport security has a very low standard back then.

CIA did no of the bojinka plot... but perhaps they were looking for in bound international flights as in Bojinka. Hijackings in the USA had ceased... obviously "our" guard was down. We had no policy of shooting down hijacked planes in any case... even if they identified the plane and could find it. Transponders were turned off.. and there were thousands of other plans in that air space following similar routes.

If you doubt they were able to board... you believe that they could have been identified and stopped... or that they were allowed to by Intel who instructed whatever security did exist to let these guys on... How would that work? I don't buy your theory Jango.

Further, the truth movement generally discounts the existence of terrorism and attributes these actions ALL to being false flags. YES there have been false flags in the past... but not every out of the blue "attack" is one. Surprise if a well known tactic. Catch the enemy off guard.
 
Unanswered Question:

What really happened on 9/11?
 
You say that as though it is a bad thing. Why should any of us believe something we're told when we can't see the evidence supporting the claim we're supposed to believe? It is akin to a parent/child relationship: Child "Why can't I go over to _____ house?" -- Parent "Because I said so." And just like that individual unit example, sometimes the government indeed does have a legitimate leg to stand on when essentially telling all of us, children, teenagers, adults and the ancient (100+ years old), "Because I said so." I am aware that there is such a thing as necessary secrets, like the aforementioned list of Names, Locations, Sources -- but it would include other things like troop movements and the designs of our weaponry, among other things. However, I am also aware that there are things classified that do not fall under that umbrella of necessary secrets, they instead fall under the umbrella of Covering **** Up. And it is because of this awareness that I cannot in good faith take the word of the government (or any government thereof) at face value alone. People do not tell the truth 100% of the time, even the most well-intentioned people in the world lie from time-to-time. People may wish to find themselves in complacency with people, like spouses, parents, siblings and friends, to believe everything they ever tell them, but that too would not be logical -- it would just be appealing to emotion.

Distrust is like this -- 1) distrust because no one is 100% truthful I.e. dictated by logic & 2) distrust because of hate I.e. dictated by emotion.

It is not a bad thing to be distrustful, as trust must always be earned, logically so.

Trust and respect must be earned.
 
My sense is that so much of the truther mindset comes from the fact of distrust of official statements... and this includes gov and media. Media is doing a lot of "stenography"... ie simply reporting verbatim what officials tell them in press releases or conferences. There is little to no fact checking... or real reporting to discover the facts. It's cheaper and easier for the media simply to repeat official statements. The DOD has also taken to produce "media stories" which sound like news, presented like a news report, but are essentially manufactured (dis)information. We live in a world of PR and spin because institutions need to protect their franchise, the budgets, their agenda and so forth. Media companies are "for profit" as well and so news has morphed into "infotainment".

Then of course you have the deal with the notion that people who commit any sort of wrong doing or incompetence do not want to be held accountable. The justice system seems to be over bearing on the poor and and least powerful elements in the society and those at the top (and law enforcement) seem to escape accountability constantly... such as the wall street failures, the police shootings or Fukishima, the Hubble telescope mirror, or the CIA for torture to mention a few examples. The truth may leak out even years later.... or not.

So many people are aware of a pattern... Media spinning and no accountability for both wrong doing and incompetence. This includes waste, fraud and abuse... Why would ANY major story not have the same elements... spin, deception, protection of franchise, no accountability and so on? Wouldn't that be the exception and not the rule? In fact... are there any exceptions where the public got the unvarnished truth and there was accountability as one would expect under the "rule of law"?

With respect to 9/11 there is no reason to think that the official accounts are not laced with spin, PR CYA and so on. At the very least whomever did 9/11, the apparatus we were told existed and paid trillions for did not prevent or stop the attack in progress. Our national security state was a failure. So at the very least we saw no accountability for this at all. At best we hear that the intel didn't work because of walls and competition between intel agencies. And if this were true... it was "congress" which set up these systems of intel... Can you imagine anyone being held accountable for the creation of the flaws in the national security state? Hell no. Of course the truther will then jump to the conclusion that nasty "insiders" were able to EXPLOIT this flawed structure to stage 9/11. But why? They then jump to the conclusion that these nasties wanted a war, wanted to increase surveillance on the people, and gain access to the spoils of war... resources and control of the region. This clearly appears to be a motive of powerful extraction industries and suggests that these industries were able to control or had agents inside the government who steer policy. Everyone is aware of the on the radar activities of lobbyists who essentially openly are able to manipulate congress critters. This happens all the time to the betterment of the powerful and the detriment of the people.

What does seem to be missing in the truther based analysis... is the notion that the MIC, the corps, the powerful... the "US empire" has riden rough shod over people around the world and that those people will not, cannot strike back in any manner. For sure the disenfranchised don't have fighters, bombers, battle ship groups, ICBMs, even drones (yet)... and so all they do have is asymmetrical warfare, or as the MIC calls it "insurgencies" ir the tactic of terrorism. Terrosists don't need to engage in military battles to defeat their enemy and stop the oppression. They need to "freak out" or terrorize the public so that they demand policy changes. The notion is that the public will recognize that they are unsafe, that this was the result of failed policies such as what the empire routinely does... oppressive militarism... carpet bombing, land mines, white phosphorus, cluster bombs, destruction of infrastructure and so on... not to mention propping up oppressive and repressive leaders who do the empire's bidding.

There is more than enough justification for an explanation that 9/11 was a case of blow back... disgruntled groups who staged a terrorist attack and one that the existing national security state was not set up to see coming or stop in progress. It was so low tech... that intel's spying was able to be gamed... and missed it except the so called chatter that something was afoot.

break... more to follow
snip I would have given you possibly the first like had you stopped there.

nope I changed my mind, that is good enough I just gave you the first like
 
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Before 9/11 airport security was very different. I recall they checked your ticket not even compared it to ID... I don't think there was a watch list at that time either. DHS didn't exist and there was... IIRC no "no fly list" at the time... Post 9/11 this list grew to 1,000,000. I think boarding a plane with a ticket was very easy back then. Odd that there are so few vids of the airport in the public record... domestic airport security has a very low standard back then.

CIA did no of the bojinka plot... but perhaps they were looking for in bound international flights as in Bojinka. Hijackings in the USA had ceased... obviously "our" guard was down. We had no policy of shooting down hijacked planes in any case... even if they identified the plane and could find it. Transponders were turned off.. and there were thousands of other plans in that air space following similar routes.

If you doubt they were able to board... you believe that they could have been identified and stopped... or that they were allowed to by Intel who instructed whatever security did exist to let these guys on... How would that work? I don't buy your theory Jango.

Further, the truth movement generally discounts the existence of terrorism and attributes these actions ALL to being false flags. YES there have been false flags in the past... but not every out of the blue "attack" is one. Surprise if a well known tactic. Catch the enemy off guard.

'Cept it wasn't a secret and it didn't catch our spies or many around the world for that matter off guard. The hijackers had been identified and tracked. Their op was blown.
 
It really wasn't so much the way security was done either... yeah, that was different back then, but a lot of what led to the attacks taking place in spite of the whispers that one may be taking place in the future was the failure of different departments to communicate and share information to complement each other.
 
I certainly hope that you are not making the mistake of lumping me in with what you've described above. Alas, there is such a thing as terrorism and blowback as well as false flags and covert operations -- history is littered with prime examples of each, among others.

No problem so far.

There is no doubt in my mind that al Qaeda were on the planes, that they had infiltrated the U.S. with bogus and invalid passports that did not meet the standards for entrance,

Of course improper Visas and passports were stopping so many coming to the US.... Pre-9/11. Just ask the MILLIONS who entered with improper documents.

that they had taken flight training and been on U.S. military installations,

As former military you might understand the concept of "dual use" airports. No? Take Yuma international. Vivilian AND military use. Technically anyone training at that facility are "training and been on U.S. military installations"

that they lived with a F.B.I.,

An FBI what? An FBI informant? An informant that DID NOT tell the FBI they were living there? An informant that HAD NO REASON to tell the FBI they were living there?

that they met with Saudi intelligence at the behest of the C.I.A., etc etc.

Oh, PLEASE show me where THIS happened...

PLEASE.

I don't doubt that for a minute, I just doubt that the hijackers were able to even board the planes in the first place supposedly because U.S. Intelligence had failed so miserably and couldn't imagine planes being used as weapons, ironically enough as the C.I.A. had used a plane laden with explosives as a weapon in Nicaragua in the early '80's during the Contra operation.

Irrelevant.....

Really.

You are Gishing.

Make it stop.
 
I think in order to make the OP worthwhile we probably need to start at the beginning and work our way through the known and accepted facts, stopping only when one of those pesky unanswered questions pops up. I recommend we take it all the way back to the beginning,... in 1919.
 
Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings.

I was asking what REALLY happened (all of it), REALLY, not one particular thing you were told happened. No one knows what REALLY happened except those who were involved. I guess you didn't understand the question.
 
'Cept it wasn't a secret and it didn't catch our spies or many around the world for that matter off guard. The hijackers had been identified and tracked. Their op was blown.

That's not true to my knowledge.... where are detailed reports PRE 9/11 describing the terrorists, the date, the location of the hijackings and the times and so on? Suer we know some characters were on intel's radar screen... but I don't think with specificity to thwart the attack.
 
That's not true to my knowledge.... where are detailed reports PRE 9/11 describing the terrorists, the date, the location of the hijackings and the times and so on? Suer we know some characters were on intel's radar screen... but I don't think with specificity to thwart the attack.

People suspected to in contact with terrorists -> No other information as to who, where, when, how -> INSIDE JOB
 
I was asking what REALLY happened (all of it), REALLY, not one particular thing you were told happened. No one knows what REALLY happened except those who were involved. I guess you didn't understand the question.

Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings.

That is what REALLY HAPPENED.

REALLY.
 
Mark. It's the "NoahFence" position.

...usually taken when someone like me is deep in an argument about whether it was the fourteenth bolt on the left OR the thirty second doodad on the whosit.


;)
 
Mark. It's the "NoahFence" position.

...usually taken when someone like me is deep in an argument about whether it was the fourteenth bolt on the left OR the thirty second doodad on the whosit.


;)

Said as though you've ever actually got to that level of specificity.
 
Terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into buildings.

That is what REALLY HAPPENED.

REALLY.

Now if only you could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt....:lol:
 
Now if only you could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt....:lol:

It has been. Of course some people are too intellectually challenged to get it - but they are a tiny, fringe minority and there is no sense fussing about their limitations.
 
It has been. Of course some people are too intellectually challenged to get it - but they are a tiny, fringe minority and there is no sense fussing about their limitations.
Actually - if we think about it and get the logic the right way round - the true situation is that no one has shown reasonable doubt. ;)


...it is beyond reasonable doubt unless someone shows reasonable doubt.
 
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