UN: Climate disasters imperil Bangladesh kids’ lives, future

[Integrityrespec]

oh, for sure. i mean, we're decades too late for this

Greenland's most critical glacier is suddenly gaining ice, but that might not be a good thing - CNN

Always something to get in the way of the extremist global warming conclusions.

 

[ataraxia]

And what do you want me to do about that? Walk to work?

I don't know. But whatever it is, you should think about doing it soon, 'cuz your own kids are next.

 

[Fletch]

I don't know. But whatever it is, you should think about doing it soon, 'cuz your own kids are next.

MY kids will be fine, and so will yours. The only difference mine know it and yours dont.

 

[ataraxia]

MY kids will be fine, and so will yours.

How do you know?

It's a little like someone being told by every specialist doctor they have seen that they have cancer and they better do something about it quick before it spreads, and they just shrug it all off as these doctors just trying to make a buck of him, and ignoring them. They tell you they "will be fine". Except here, the issue is not limited to just them, but the rest of us too.

Sorry if we are a little puzzled as your cavalier attitude. It seems oddly unjustified.

 

[Fletch]

How do you know?

It's a little like someone being told by every specialist doctor they have seen that they have cancer and they better do something about it quick before it spreads, and they just shrug it all off as these doctors just trying to make a buck of him, and ignoring them. They tell you they "will be fine". Except here, the issue is not limited to just them, but the rest of us too.

Sorry if we are a little puzzled as your cavalier attitude. It seems oddly unjustified.

Because we will adapt. There have been larger swinsg in global temperature in the past and we have survived. We will survive this.

 

[ataraxia]

Because we will adapt. There have been larger swinsg in global temperature in the past and we have survived. We will survive this.

Species die out all the time. Our nearest humanoid cousins, the Neanderthals, survived about 600,000 years before dying out. Dinosaurs were around several hundred million years before dying out. We modern humans have only been on the scene less than 200,000 years. We haven't had much time to prove we can survive anything better than the other guys. So I am not sure what you think we have survived before that gives you all this confidence. There are no guarantees.

Besides, how did we go from "this is all no big deal", to talking about how we MIGHT survive it?

Not to mention, the living conditions, even if we managed to survive, might be so poor you might WISH you could walk to work.

This, from the Trump administration's own scientists:

"The federal government on Friday released a long-awaited report with an unmistakable message: The effects of climate change, including deadly wildfires, increasingly debilitating hurricanes and heat waves, are already battering the United States, and the danger of more such catastrophes is worsening.

The report’s authors, who represent numerous federal agencies, say they are more certain than ever that climate change poses a severe threat to Americans' health and pocketbooks, as well as to the country’s infrastructure and natural resources. And while it avoids policy recommendations, the report’s sense of urgency and alarm stands in stark contrast to the lack of any apparent plan from President Trump to tackle the problems, which, according to the government he runs, are increasingly dire...

Already, western mountain ranges are retaining much less snow throughout the year, threatening water supplies below them. Coral reefs in the Caribbean, Hawaii, Florida and the United States' Pacific territories are experiencing severe bleaching events. Wildfires are devouring ever-larger areas during longer fire seasons. And the country’s sole Arctic state, Alaska, is seeing a staggering rate of warming that has upended its ecosystems, from once ice-clogged coastlines to increasingly thawing permafrost tundras.

The authors argue that global warming “is transforming where and how we live and presents growing challenges to human health and quality of life, the economy, and the natural systems that support us.” And they conclude that humans must act aggressively to adapt to current impacts and mitigate future catastrophes “to avoid substantial damages to the U.S. economy, environment, and human health and well-being over the coming decades.”

“The impacts we’ve seen the last 15 years have continued to get stronger, and that will only continue,” said Gary Yohe, a professor of economics and environmental studies at Wesleyan University who served on a National Academy of Sciences panel that reviewed the report. “We have wasted 15 years of response time. If we waste another five years of response time, the story gets worse. The longer you wait, the faster you have to respond and the more expensive it will be.”

www.washingtonpost.com/energy-envir...country/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.21abcc4757b2

 

[longview]

Species die out all the time. Our nearest humanoid cousins, the Neanderthals, survived about 600,000 years before dying out. Dinosaurs were around several hundred million years before dying out. We modern humans have only been on the scene less than 200,000 years. We haven't had much time to prove we can survive anything better than the other guys. So I am not sure what you think we have survived before that gives you all this confidence. There are no guarantees.

Besides, how did we go from "this is all no big deal", to talking about how we MIGHT survive it?

Not to mention, the living conditions, even if we managed to survive, might be so poor you might WISH you could walk to work.

This, from the Trump administration's own scientists:

What are the predictions that you do not think humans could not adapt to?
Be specific!

 

[ataraxia]

What are the predictions that you do not think humans could not adapt to?
Be specific!

I don't know. But how did we go from "it's not real" to trying to figure out how bad it's gotta be before we can't adapt to it anymore?

 

[longview]

I don't know. But how did we go from "it's not real" to trying to figure out how bad it's gotta be before we can't adapt to it anymore?

I never said it was not real, but you are the one implying that the predicted climate change would be
something that the Human species could not survive.
So again, What are the predictions that you do not think humans could not adapt to?

 

[Media_Truth]

And what do you want me to do about that? Walk to work?

No we'll allow you a bicycle, as long as you put solar panels on your roof.

 

[Media_Truth]

Every monsoon the rives dump 2cm of sediment on Bangladesh. And that is if you are 10km away from the river. You will have to work to find somewhere that far away from the rivers there.

In 2100 Bangladesh will be bigger than it is now.

That floods are a problem is not at all new. It, Bangladesh, is the delta of the Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers. It is massively fertile because of this. It is massively prone to massive flooding because of this. It is massively prone to the rivers building new land and taking away existing land because of this.

It doesn't appear that you captured the entire problem here. The article mentions soil salinity. If high tides flood an area with salt water, the soil is much, much harder to farm. Often it can render the soil totally unfarmable.

Solutions to Soil Problems: High Salinity - eXtension

Salinity is a measure of the soluble salts in soil. Salinity is measured in a water-extract of the soil. Saline soils pose a problem for plants. The more saline the soil, the more difficult it is for plants to absorb and extract water from the soil.

 

[Tim the plumber]

It doesn't appear that you captured the entire problem here. The article mentions soil salinity. If high tides flood an area with salt water, the soil is much, much harder to farm. Often it can render the soil totally unfarmable.

Solutions to Soil Problems: High Salinity - eXtension

Salinity is a measure of the soluble salts in soil. Salinity is measured in a water-extract of the soil. Saline soils pose a problem for plants. The more saline the soil, the more difficult it is for plants to absorb and extract water from the soil.

Aaarrrgh!!

The floods in Bangladesh are, generally, due to the monsoon.

The whole of the North Indian Plain and all the rainfall that lands on the Southern side of the Himalayas comes down to the delta of the Ganges and the Brahmaputra rivers which is Bangladesh.

Storm surges just stop the water going out for a bit.

The sea side edge of the place has loads of mangrove swamps (often artificially planted) which absorb the storm surges and probably trap any salt water.

 

[Fletch]

No we'll allow you a bicycle, as long as you put solar panels on your roof.

Thats the despotism I referred to earlier that I can live without. I will deal with the warmer climate rather than do those things the tyrannical left allows me to do .

 

[ataraxia]

I never said it was not real, but you are the one implying that the predicted climate change would be
something that the Human species could not survive.
So again, What are the predictions that you do not think humans could not adapt to?

It's not clear how bad it's going to be. With current CO2 rises, it's a high risk activity. It's like a smoker saying that he knows people who smoke and haven't died yet, so scientists can't be trusted with their warnings to stop smoking.

All they can do is tell you to stop because the risk is way too high. They cannot know if you individually will or will not have problems with it, and if so, how bad it's going to be. You might not have any problems. You might just end up with a smoker's cough. You could get emphysema and have to be on oxygen for the rest of your life. You could get a heart attack from accelerated atherosclerosis. Or you could get throat cancer. Or you could get lung cancer, or some combination of the above, etc...

Which is it going to be? If they can't tell you exactly, does that mean you ignore them and keep smoking?

 

[ataraxia]

Thats the despotism I referred to earlier that I can live without. I will deal with the warmer climate rather than do those things the tyrannical left allows me to do .

Despotism is when there is an issue which only effects you alone, and other people are forcing you to do something about it. If we were forcing you to exercise more, or eat more healthy, or stop smoking, etc... that's despotism.

But this is an issue which effects us too. So your refusal to act on something which is at high risk of messing with OUR future and OUR life is YOUR despotism. Your freedom to swing your arms about freely stops where our nose starts.

 

[Fletch]

Despotism is when there is an issue which only effects you alone, and other people are forcing you to do something about it. If we were forcing you to exercise more, or eat more healthy, or stop smoking, etc... that's despotism.

I often wonder where you liberals get your definitions for words. I think sometimes you guys just pull them out of your butts so that you can define a word any way you like so that it fits what you want to say. Here is the real definition of the word 'despotism' and you will notice it looks nothing like the way you defined it

des·pot·ism
[ des-p uh-tiz- uhm]

NOUN
1.
the rule of a despot; the exercise of absolute authority.
2.
absolute power or control; tyranny.
3.
an absolute or autocratic government.
4.
a country ruled by a despot.

But this is an issue which effects us too. So your refusal to act on something which is at high risk of messing with OUR future and OUR life is YOUR despotism. Your freedom to swing your arms about freely stops where our nose starts.

Thats a completely nonsensical argument. You can not demonstrate on any level how my driving a car or turning on a light causes you harm in any way whatsoever. So you cannot argue that the state must step in and command or restrain my behavior based upon harm to you or anyone else.

 

[ataraxia]

I often wonder where you liberals get your definitions for words. I think sometimes you guys just pull them out of your butts so that you can define a word any way you like so that it fits what you want to say. Here is the real definition of the word 'despotism' and you will notice it looks nothing like the way you defined it

des·pot·ism
[ des-p uh-tiz- uhm]

NOUN
1.
the rule of a despot; the exercise of absolute authority.
2.
absolute power or control; tyranny.
3.
an absolute or autocratic government.
4.
a country ruled by a despot.

Your denial of climate change science and fighting any regulations on it is exerting power or control over my future. That's tyranny. I and people all over the world will have to suffer (are already starting to) because of your poor judgment.

Thats a completely nonsensical argument. You can not demonstrate on any level how my driving a car or turning on a light causes you harm in any way whatsoever. So you cannot argue that the state must step in and command or restrain my behavior based upon harm to you or anyone else.

Do you want the state to stop stepping in and commanding and restraining your behavior at stop signs and traffic lights? Even if you're the pedestrian?

It's good to hear you admit you don't care if your freedom is hurting others. What a gentleman.

 

[Fletch]

Your denial of climate change science and fighting any regulations on it is exerting power or control over my future. That's tyranny. I and people all over the world will have to suffer (are already starting to) because of your poor judgment.

Sorry, but thats just stupid. You dont know what tyranny is either but Im not going to do your homework for you again and provide a definition. And you cannot demonstrate that anything I do or have done has impacted you or the climate in any way.

Do you want the state to stop stepping in and commanding and restraining your behavior at stop signs and traffic lights? Even if you're the pedestrian?

It's good to hear you admit you don't care if your freedom is hurting others. What a gentleman.

Stupid analogy and nothing I am doing is hurting anyone. The truth is, if you could actually prove that my actions were a direct harm to you, you wouldnt have to enact your climate tyranny to deal with me, you could take me to court this afternoon. Better yet, if I have harmed you, call the police and report it.

 

[longview]

It's not clear how bad it's going to be. With current CO2 rises, it's a high risk activity. It's like a smoker saying that he knows people who smoke and haven't died yet, so scientists can't be trusted with their warnings to stop smoking.

All they can do is tell you to stop because the risk is way too high. They cannot know if you individually will or will not have problems with it, and if so, how bad it's going to be. You might not have any problems. You might just end up with a smoker's cough. You could get emphysema and have to be on oxygen for the rest of your life. You could get a heart attack from accelerated atherosclerosis. Or you could get throat cancer. Or you could get lung cancer, or some combination of the above, etc...

Which is it going to be? If they can't tell you exactly, does that mean you ignore them and keep smoking?

Yours is a poor analogy because smoking is a behavior of choice, where our energy is mostly not a behavior of choice.
Billions are alive, because our modern high energy use society allows them to be, without that high density packaged energy
roughly 80% of the population could not be sustained.
As for how much an issue CO2 is, it is not anything that threatens the Human species, but rather has to possibility of disrupting
some aspects of our modern society.
In reality, the more catastrophic claims are based on the worst case scenarios, which are almost impossible, but were set as limits on the equation.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Yours is a poor analogy because smoking is a behavior of choice, where our energy is mostly not a behavior of choice.
Billions are alive, because our modern high energy use society allows them to be, without that high density packaged energy
roughly 80% of the population could not be sustained.
As for how much an issue CO2 is, it is not anything that threatens the Human species, but rather has to possibility of disrupting
some aspects of our modern society.
In reality, the more catastrophic claims are based on the worst case scenarios, which are almost impossible, but were set as limits on the equation.

Having communities, governments, corporations and individuals leading the way in the transition away from fossil fuels have drastically reduced the cost of renewable energy. So that even local Republican politicians are seeing the benefits of renewable energy.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

So it was really bad that the warnings from climate scientists was ignored for so long time. Because if real action had been taking decades ago you could have seen the necessary economy of scale and innovation of renewable energy and other technologies much sooner. So the last decades of development in for example China and other countries could have been accomplished with a lot less pollution. While developed countries could also have reduced their C02 pollution a lot more.

While you are finally today starting to see that necessary economies of scale renewables so that renewables are starting to outcompete fossil fuels all across the world.

India Coal Power Is About To Crash: 65% Of Existing Coal Costs More Than New Wind And Solar

While at the same time we are running out of time because the warnings from the scientists was ignored for so long time, so there are a urgent need to reduce C02 emissions.

Climate crisis: today’s children face lives with tiny carbon footprints | Environment | The Guardian

 

[longview]

Having communities, governments, corporations and individuals leading the way in the transition away from fossil fuels have drastically reduced the cost of renewable energy. So that even local Republican politicians are seeing the benefits of renewable energy.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

So it was really bad that the warnings from climate scientists was ignored for so long time. Because if real action had been taking decades ago you could have seen the necessary economy of scale and innovation of renewable energy and other technologies much sooner. So the last decades of development in for example China and other countries could have been accomplished with a lot less pollution. While developed countries could also have reduced their C02 pollution a lot more.

While you are finally today starting to see that necessary economies of scale renewables so that renewables are starting to outcompete fossil fuels all across the world.

India Coal Power Is About To Crash: 65% Of Existing Coal Costs More Than New Wind And Solar

While at the same time we are running out of time because the warnings from the scientists was ignored for so long time, so there are a urgent need to reduce C02 emissions.

Climate crisis: today’s children face lives with tiny carbon footprints | Environment | The Guardian

Um! The price drop in solar panels is largely the industery's response to China trying to push everyone out of the market with
low subsidized prices. Many manufacturers fell away, the strong utilized statistical process control techniques from the semiconductor
industry to radically cut cost while improving product quality and production.
The cost savings allowed them to compete with China's subsidized prices.
Solar and wind without some type of grid scale energy storage, cannot compete on any lever with coal,
simply because they are not on demand.
Solar does have a large potential in places that do not currently have electricity, as the consumption habits can be tailored
to the poor duty cycle supply. (People without refrigeration would see a vast improvement with the addition of solar powered refrigeration.)
CO2 and Carbon doe snot really appear to be of much concern, but we do have an energy problem.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Um! The price drop in solar panels is largely the industery's response to China trying to push everyone out of the market with
low subsidized prices. Many manufacturers fell away, the strong utilized statistical process control techniques from the semiconductor
industry to radically cut cost while improving product quality and production.
The cost savings allowed them to compete with China's subsidized prices.
Solar and wind without some type of grid scale energy storage, cannot compete on any lever with coal,
simply because they are not on demand.
Solar does have a large potential in places that do not currently have electricity, as the consumption habits can be tailored
to the poor duty cycle supply. (People without refrigeration would see a vast improvement with the addition of solar powered refrigeration.)
CO2 and Carbon doe snot really appear to be of much concern, but we do have an energy problem.

You have seen a drastic decline in cost of both solar power, wind power, batteries and other technologies.

"Across the U.S., renewable energy is beating coal on cost: The price to build new wind and solar has fallen below the cost of running existing coal-fired power plants in Red and Blue states. For example, Colorado’s Xcel will retire 660 megawatts (MW) of coal capacity ahead of schedule in favor of renewable sources and battery storage, and reduce costs in the process. Midwestern utility MidAmerican will be the first utility to reach 100% renewable energy by 2020 without increasing customer rates, and Indiana’s NIPSCO will replace 1.8 gigawatts (GW) of coal with wind and solar.

Lazard’s annual Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) analysis reports solar photovoltaic (PV) and wind costs have dropped an extraordinary 88% and 69% since 2009, respectively. Meanwhile, coal and nuclear costs have increased by 9% and 23%, respectively. Even without accounting for current subsidies, renewable energy costs can be considerably lower than the marginal cost of conventional energy technologies."

Plunging Prices Mean Building New Renewable Energy Is Cheaper Than Running Existing Coal

You also you for example have Denmark, there 68 percent of electricity supply originated from renewables and wind power covered 40.8 percent in 2018.

As Wind Turned Down A Notch, Solar Soared -- 2018 Renewable Energy Report Denmark | CleanTechnica

More and more famillies also combine owning solar power with batteries for energy storage.

In Germany, PV Panels Often Come With a Battery - CityLab

There all this positive development could have happened a lot sooner if the warnings from the climate scientists had been heard. That many of the devasting effects of climate change is already felt all across the world.

Climate change 'cause of most under-reported humanitarian crises' | Science | The Guardian

2018's Hemispheric Heat Wave Wasn't Possible Without Climate Change, Scientists Say | InsideClimate News

 

[longview]

You have seen a drastic decline in cost of both solar power, wind power, batteries and other technologies.

"Across the U.S., renewable energy is beating coal on cost: The price to build new wind and solar has fallen below the cost of running existing coal-fired power plants in Red and Blue states. For example, Colorado’s Xcel will retire 660 megawatts (MW) of coal capacity ahead of schedule in favor of renewable sources and battery storage, and reduce costs in the process. Midwestern utility MidAmerican will be the first utility to reach 100% renewable energy by 2020 without increasing customer rates, and Indiana’s NIPSCO will replace 1.8 gigawatts (GW) of coal with wind and solar.

Lazard’s annual Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) analysis reports solar photovoltaic (PV) and wind costs have dropped an extraordinary 88% and 69% since 2009, respectively. Meanwhile, coal and nuclear costs have increased by 9% and 23%, respectively. Even without accounting for current subsidies, renewable energy costs can be considerably lower than the marginal cost of conventional energy technologies."

Plunging Prices Mean Building New Renewable Energy Is Cheaper Than Running Existing Coal

You also you for example have Denmark, there 68 percent of electricity supply originated from renewables and wind power covered 40.8 percent in 2018.

As Wind Turned Down A Notch, Solar Soared -- 2018 Renewable Energy Report Denmark | CleanTechnica

More and more famillies also combine owning solar power with batteries for energy storage.

In Germany, PV Panels Often Come With a Battery - CityLab

There all this positive development could have happened a lot sooner if the warnings from the climate scientists had been heard. That many of the devasting effects of climate change is already felt all across the world.

Climate change 'cause of most under-reported humanitarian crises' | Science | The Guardian

2018's Hemispheric Heat Wave Wasn't Possible Without Climate Change, Scientists Say | InsideClimate News

You keep preaching the song, but it does not change the actual numbers.
Solar and wind have to erratic of a duty cycle to be the primary energy supply for our modern society, without some form of grid level storage.
All of the feel good articles in the world will not change the basic math.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

You keep preaching the song, but it does not change the actual numbers.
Solar and wind have to erratic of a duty cycle to be the primary energy supply for our modern society, without some form of grid level storage.
All of the feel good articles in the world will not change the basic math.

Renewables in combination with batteries are already getting more and more competitive in producing electricity on demand.

“In fact, the LCOE for multi-hour lithium-ion batteries is falling to the point that “batteries co-located with solar or wind projects are starting to compete, in many markets and without subsidy, with coal- and gas-fired generation for the provision of ‘dispatchable power’ that can be delivered whenever the grid needs it (as opposed to only when the wind is blowing, or the sun is shining),” the report notes.”

Report: Levelized Cost of Energy for Lithium-Ion Batteries Is Plummeting | Greentech Media

You also have interesting project all across the world that will help regulate supply of electricity. For example Snowy 2.0, the huge pump storage project in Australia.

Snowy 2.0 | Snowy Hydro

Also for example this huge concentrated solar project in Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia shines a light on future of concentrated solar power – HELIOSCSP

 

[Bum]

I would think the bigger threat is women and children dying in sweatshops that burn to the ground making cheap clothing for Walmart.