- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 41,575
- Reaction score
- 31,185
- Location
- Southern England
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Liberal
So then it's a fools quest to once again attempt to snuff out the black market.
Why are you all so fear-filled by a "fools quest"?
It still concerns a NONevent that DIDN'T happen two years ago and ISN'T happening now. Keeping a wild assed rumor in play doesn't make it true, just shows a few will hold onto BS no matter how senseless it is...
No treaty, it is a study and without USofA military support no weapons will be taken from any homes anywhere on the planet. What would be nice is if a few covert arms dealers were shut down in the third world.
It still concerns a NONevent that DIDN'T happen two years ago and ISN'T happening now. Keeping a wild assed rumor in play doesn't make it true, just shows a few will hold onto BS no matter how senseless it is...
No treaty, it is a study and without USofA military support no weapons will be taken from any homes anywhere on the planet. What would be nice is if a few covert arms dealers were shut down in the third world.
In most of the problematic areas of the globe law enforcement is the problem, no argument there. Even when the authorities are honest black market gun dealers are usually better armed than they are, and they are close enough to hold their own against NATO forces due to that body's ROE.Now I'm confused, are you talking about the UN Arms Trade Treaty, or something else? Because I'm addressing the ATT. The only way illegal arms dealers are going to close shop is if law enforcement in the regions affected do something about it. Since in most cases law enforcement in those regions is the problem, the UN is unable to realistically do anything about it.
In most of the problematic areas of the globe law enforcement is the problem, no argument there. Even when the authorities are honest black market gun dealers are usually better armed than they are, and they are close enough to hold their own against NATO forces due to that body's ROE.
I've got plenty of friends who are or were military, over beers once one who is older than me told me about the Clinton era when we went into Africa trying to aid a NATO relief mission. The warlords opened fire on a crowd of displaced citizens who were trying to get the relief supplies dropped and the NATO forces tried to intervene, but due to ROEs at the time they had to call in permission to fire back at the warlords which was denied, our contingent watched the other nation members getting plastered and all looked around and basically said "**** this, if we can't fire back we'll just watch, we aren't getting murdered for these ROEs". I would assume it's still the same problem now.The problem with NATO is that they aren't a military organization as much as they're peace keepers. They aren't meant to go after arms dealers, drug runners, or opposing combatant organizations. The role changed a little bit after 9/11, but they still remain toothless as actual combatants. I view them more in the same light as the red cross than soldiers. They have their place, for sure, but that place isn't combat operations, which is what pushing the arms trade in problematic regions will turn into.
Incorrect, it was originally intended to be a vehicle to include the United States military in future Western European protection, it had nothing to do with Soviet expansion. Proof of that is all the problems we as a nation have had due to NATO stepping into situations it wasn't prepared for, some involving Soviets and others not so much. NATO has evolved into a peacekeeping force and in fact they are referred to during actions as peacekeepers, exceptions being the Afghanistan and Iraq theaters.NATO was a military organization built to stop Soviet infiltration in Europe and the North Atlantic. Not as peacekeepers or international law enforcement.
I've got plenty of friends who are or were military, over beers once one who is older than me told me about the Clinton era when we went into Africa trying to aid a NATO relief mission. The warlords opened fire on a crowd of displaced citizens who were trying to get the relief supplies dropped and the NATO forces tried to intervene, but due to ROEs at the time they had to call in permission to fire back at the warlords which was denied, our contingent watched the other nation members getting plastered and all looked around and basically said "**** this, if we can't fire back we'll just watch, we aren't getting murdered for these ROEs". I would assume it's still the same problem now.
It hasn't been written yet. That's what you've claimed, anyway. Now, you asking me to show you the text, knowing that it hasn't been written?
do you think its intelligent & mature to soo strongly oppose a treaty that hasn't even been written yet?
I remember the same thing happening in Israel when things between them and Palestine escalated. I can't remember when it was, but I remember a lot of concern over the Palestinians having missiles. It was before I enlisted. What I do remember is that the blue helmets couldn't return fire, so they gtfo. I would have too, honestly. No point in standing around getting shot by Israelis, and Hezbollah to keep a non-existent peace you can't even enforce. Their ROE sucks, since they aren't even allowed to defend themselves.
NATO was a military organization built to stop Soviet infiltration in Europe and the North Atlantic. Not as peacekeepers or international law enforcement.
:dohMein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto and The Final Solution weren't written yet at one time, too. How did your attitude work out for us, then?!?
History has also taught is that that point is just a tad too late!
Are those the same UN troops that aided and abetted Palestinian fighters during the last Israeli-Palestinian war?
History has taught us fear over nothing creates **** storms.
Care to post some examples?
Germany's fear of the Jews
America's fear of the Japanese.
Germany's fear of the Jews
America's fear of the Japanese.
Basically any persecution of minorities.Care to post some examples?
Those are your examples?....
yeah, do you have anything to counter them?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?