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UN admits Syria wracked by sectarian civil war

TheDemSocialist

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A United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry has finally admitted that a sectarian civil war is raging in Syria. Its findings are based upon extensive investigations and interviews between September 28 to December 16, 2012.
The UN panel, led by Paulo Pinheiro of Brazil, states that the conflict has evolved from being a battle for political change into one that is “overtly sectarian in nature.”

“Mounting tensions have led to armed clashes between different armed groups along a sectarian divide”, with “Some minority communities, notably the Alawites and Christians”, forming “armed self-defence groups to protect their neighbourhoods from anti-Government fighters.”

With sectarian divisions affecting Sunnis, Alawites, Armenians, Christians, Druze, Palestinians, Kurds and Turkmen, “Entire communities are at risk of being forced out of the country or of being killed”. The report notes as an example that almost all 80,000 Christians who once lived in Homs, where Jabhat al-Nusra has a large presence, have fled to Damascus or Beirut.

At a press conference in Brussels, Pinheiro declared, “We think this is a war where no military victory is possible. It is a great illusion that providing arms to one side or the other will help end it.”

Read more @: UN admits Syria wracked by sectarian civil war - World Socialist Web Site

Bout damn time they admitted it. This isnt a kind of conflict of "all the Syrian people united against the government". This is a true civil war. Truly a very divided civil war, with many people backing the government, and many people backing the rebels. This is exactly why the US should stay out of this conflict.
 
So who gives a sht?
 
This isnt a kind of conflict of "all the Syrian people united against the government".

No one has ever said that.

But your post is disingenuous. The nature of the conflict has changed over the course of its 20 months. For most of that time it has been a relatively one sided slaughter. Only in the past 6 months or so have the rebels organized sufficiently to return fire with any efficacy.
 
No one has ever said that.
Many users here at DP have stated that or seemed to believe that position, and many people within the US have stated this as well.


But your post is disingenuous. The nature of the conflict has changed over the course of its 20 months. For most of that time it has been a relatively one sided slaughter. Only in the past 6 months or so have the rebels organized sufficiently to return fire with any efficacy.
Well yes it generally has been a one sided slaughter. I did not mean to leave that view, that was not my goal and i agree that it has been a one sided slaughter. The rebels have been able to organize recently i agree but that still does not leave the fact that the this is a very sectarian civil war with the Syrian people equally divided.
 
Assad is bombing his own people with their airforce. He must be dethroned. End of story. Whatever happens after that... not really our business or responsibility. Sure, I'd like to help build democracy and spur development, but that's up to them.

I don't get how uncertaintly about the aftermath means that we should allow Assad to slaughter his own people and maintain power. One must wonder, even if Assad used chemical weapons domestically, would some people ever come to the aid of innocent Syrians.



ps. Crappy source. Perhaps we should go back to PressTV.
 
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Assad is bombing his own people with their airforce. He must be dethroned. End of story. Whatever happens after that... not really our business or responsibility. Sure, I'd like to help build democracy and spur development, but that's up to them.

I don't get how uncertaintly about the aftermath means that we should allow Assad to slaughter his own people and maintain power. One must wonder, even if Assad used chemical weapons domestically, would some people ever come to the aid of innocent Syrians.



ps. Crappy source. Perhaps we should go back to PressTV.

Would it be better for the Syrian people to have a dictator securely in place or the rebels turning amongst themselves, killing innocent Syrians in the process and paving the way for an Islamist government?

P.S. Thinking of doing things RIGHT NOW and ignoring the aftermath is a short-sighted and reckless way of thinking.
 
Would it be better for the Syrian people to have a dictator securely in place or the rebels turning amongst themselves, killing innocent Syrians in the process and paving the way for an Islamist government?

P.S. Thinking of doing things RIGHT NOW and ignoring the aftermath is a short-sighted and reckless way of thinking.

When thousands are being killed by their own airforce, the time to act is right now.
 
When thousands are being killed by their own airforce, the time to act is right now.

Have you ever considered that us intervening could possibly make things worse? Assad could gain support with a rallying cry about how Western imperialists are trying to dominate the Syrian people. Any atrocities that occur at the hands of US military forces could be exploited by the Assad regime. Al-Qaeda will take the opportunity and soon enough we will be forced to fight both the Syrian army and have to focus on counter-terrorism efforts. Tensions with Iran will rise since they are a supporter of the Assad regime. We'll waste money and lives on an issue that doesn't concern us and in fact puts us in a weaker position in the Middle East in which we are less likely to be able to promote democracy in the long run.
 
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Have you ever considered that us intervening could possibly make things worse?

As long as the international community remains involved, I don't think so. This is the modern world. Look at Iraq. It had genocide (twice), 400k children starved, invaded neighbors twice (used chems), was under crippling sanctions, legal FGM, legal honor killings and rape palaces as part of the judicial system. Now it's a development aid capital.

This isn't the early 20th century, when the "losers" were left to their own devices. The nature of war, itself, has changed. Today, it is of the utmost priority to nation build and develop a country, so as to fix the problem long term. It's no longer "grab their stuff and run" or "leave 'em in the stone age". That's not how it works today. Many people need to get their heads out of 20th century thinking on foreign policy and recognize today's objectives.
 
As long as the international community remains involved, I don't think so. This is the modern world. Look at Iraq. It had genocide (twice), 400k children starved, invaded neighbors twice (used chems), was under crippling sanctions, legal FGM, legal honor killings and rape palaces as part of the judicial system. Now it's a development aid capital.

This isn't the early 20th century, when the "losers" were left to their own devices. The nature of war, itself, has changed. Today, it is of the utmost priority to nation build and develop a country, so as to fix the problem long term. It's no longer "grab their stuff and run" or "leave 'em in the stone age". That's not how it works today. Many people need to get their heads out of 20th century thinking on foreign policy and recognize today's objectives.

I fail to see how that was a response to his points...
 
Read more @: UN admits Syria wracked by sectarian civil war - World Socialist Web Site

Bout damn time they admitted it. This isnt a kind of conflict of "all the Syrian people united against the government". This is a true civil war. Truly a very divided civil war, with many people backing the government, and many people backing the rebels. This is exactly why the US should stay out of this conflict.

This is precisely why the US should have fulfilled its internationalist interests and obligations and supported the Syrian Revolution early. We had an opportunity to back the initial rebel groups which were largely moderate military defectors under the command of Riad al-Asaad, and associated militias and insurgent brigades. By avoiding involvement we allowed a political vacuum to form wherein foreign Islamists and domestic affiliates received an opening to surge and fill the military gap that the FSA (in its initial incarnations) could not match. They had a good pool of disciplined, experienced, and relatively well equipped fighters from across the region to draw on who were prepared for precisely this kind of fighting. That is why despite their small size they had a disproportionate impact on the conflict. Because even though FSA fighters made up the majority of troops at sieges like Hama and Idlib (First Stage) the majority of casualties were inflicted by Islamist ambushes, road side bombings, and other insurgent attacks.

We have allowed the Syrian Revolution to become Chechenized. By holding back support, the moderates, republicans, and secularists have been slowly shunted aside. The process has been put into motion so many times before, Libya, Bosnia, Chechnya, hell even Palestine. The failure or weakness of the original opposition allows first for these Islamists to arise or parachute in as allies whom are co-opted under the banner seeking all assistance possible, then as they achieve success they grow in popularity among a beleaguered people they eventually began to replace the initial opposition, and finally if no support is forthcoming they become the opposition itself as other groups are marginalized, disappear, or are destroyed.

There was a good chance in the first year of this war that real involvement and coordination with the opposition could have led to the tempering of the PYD, and a potential coalition with the KNC in the Kurdish territories, an accommodation with Alawi areas falling under FSA control, and actual influence for the largely secular SNC in government administration. We failed and its probably too late for intervention to have the meaningful impact we desire. The only reason to do it now, is to show that we know where the cards will fall and that we didn't sit the entire war on the sidelines. It is very sad.


Edit: For the record intervention in Syria does not consist, and rarely in analysis or conversation, has consisted of invasion or significant conventional involvement. In the words of FSA commanders and militia officials, they don't want foreign troops they want guns, food, medicine, supplies, intelligence agents, etc. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and their agents and affiliates in Iraq, Jordan, and Turkey have been picking up the slack on this but not in a good way for our concerns and interests. Which is why we should have led on this, not doled it out to our reactionary and conservative allies.
 
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