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Ukrainian Sovereignty Was The Paramount "Western Value" That Was The Driver In Western Support Of The War. ( until it wasn't )

Fledermaus said:
Putin has in invaded their neighbor and has blatantly butchered civilians....
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No, the invasion happened ahead of the overthrow of the Yanuckovitch govt in order to carry it out.
We can see how it was done, thru NED, USAID, and other instruments of regime change.
You don't want to talk about that because you like this idea. You like overthrowing govts and murdering those who oppose you, as happened at the House of Trade Unions.

Fledermaus said:
Seems like a good enough reason to help Ukraine.
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You're looking to fight your ancient ethnic feuds, as Nuland knew you would, and you're now fulfilling those expectations while tightly clinging to them.
You're now MacBeth after the Lady MacBeth has fallen by the wayside.
 

Time to first lie.

First sentence.

The government wasn't overthrown.

In fact it was the very non overthrown government that removed Yanukovich from office after he ran away.

No one invaded Ukraine prior to the Russians invading both Crimea and Donbass.
 

No, it was a regime change operation. We can even hear Nuland planning it out with Pyatt.
So you should stop covering up lies instead of accusing others of lying.
 
sanman said:
No, it was a regime change operation. We can even hear Nuland planning it out with Pyatt.
So you should stop covering up lies instead of accusing others of lying.
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The claim the GOVERNMENT was overthrown is a lie.

The claim the "coup" was somehow created by the US is conspiracy theory level stupidity.
 
Ukraine: "We need to join NATO because we fear a Russian invasion"

US: "Nooo!"

Russia invades....

US: "THIS IS YOUR FAULT UKRAINE!"
 
Fledermaus said:


The claim the GOVERNMENT was overthrown is a lie.

The claim the "coup" was somehow created by the US is conspiracy theory level stupidity.
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It's real, it actually happened, and it was done to start a war between Russia and Ukraine for the purpose of forcing the Russians to withdraw from Syria so that their client Assad could be destroyed

That's now happened - so Mission Accomplished
 
sanman said:
No, it was a regime change operation. We can even hear Nuland planning it out with Pyatt.
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If Nuland was planning on overthrowing Yanukovych why does she end the call with explicitly saying Yanukovych should be part of the government?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
If Nuland was planning on overthrowing Yanukovych why does she end the call with explicitly saying Yanukovych should be part of the government?
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What bullsh!t. Where the hell did you see anybody from your side calling for Yanuckovitch to be part of the govt? He had to flee for his life from a violent coup.
Next you'll tell me that al-Sharaa or Erdogan are calling for Assad to be made part of the Syrian govt -- "It's all just a misunderstanding" -- what a load of tripe.

Yanuckovitch wasn't even against Ukraine joining the EU -- same with Putin -- it's only that they also wanted Ukraine to maintain economic ties with CIS. That was totally reasonable.
But your warmongering Washington elites like Nuland knew they could manipulate idiot street rabble to launch a street putsch and then bring in ethnic chauvinists in the bargain

**** them. **** them all. Now let them choke on their own bile.
 
sanman said:
It's real, it actually happened, and it was done to start a war between Russia and Ukraine for the purpose of forcing the Russians to withdraw from Syria so that their client Assad could be destroyed

That's now happened - so Mission Accomplished
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The GOVERNMENT was not overthrown.

That is a lie.
 
sanman said:
What bullsh!t. Where the hell did you see anybody from your side calling for Yanuckovitch to be part of the govt?
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The phone call you like to claim is proof of a coup against him by the US.

"The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place."

Do you even know when the call was made?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The phone call you like to claim is proof of a coup against him by the US.

"The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place."
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Nuland was trying to create a govt of her own choosing -- that was clearly obvious. Who the hell were she or Pyatt to do that?
You're trying to justify anti-democratic regime change operations just to install govts of your liking, regardless of what the citizenry want.
Your tools are being taken away now. Nothing left to do but fume in impotence.
You wanted to play God. Now enjoy your fall.

Jredbaron96 said:
Do you even know when the call was made?
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It was pretty much intercepted and published in the media right after it was made
 
Fledermaus said:
How does one "coup" someone who ran away?
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You can ask that to Erdogan and Netanyahu. Because likewise, Assad didn't just run away, he was forced to flee, due to a regime change operation. Something similar also happened in Bangladesh.
We can see similar attempts were made in Tbilisi, Georgia more recently.
Now that the Biden regime has run away to the dementia patient ward -- you don't hear a peep out of old Joe anymore, I wonder why -- the truth behind its dirty little secrets will come out.
I'm especially waiting for the Epstein files.
 
sanman said:
You can ask that to Erdogan and Netanyahu. Because likewise, Assad didn't just run away, he was forced to flee, due to a regime change operation. Something similar also happened in Bangladesh.
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Yanukovich was removed from office by the very intact and un couped legislature.

sanman said:
We can see similar attempts were made in Tbilisi, Georgia more recently.
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Popular uprisings?

sanman said:
Now that the Biden regime has run away to the dementia patient ward -- you don't hear a peep out of old Joe anymore, I wonder why -- the truth behind its dirty little secrets will come out.
I'm especially waiting for the Epstein files.
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What conspiracy theory are you speaking of now?
 
Fledermaus said:
Yanukovich was removed from office by the very intact and un couped legislature.
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Yanuckovitch, the lawfully elected president, was removed by a street coup. We saw similar attempts in Georgia recently -- same Washington warmongers using their same playbook, hoping to slip in another regime change before they slipped out of office. I do seriously wonder if any of them had a hand in the July 13 attempt to assassinate Trump. If a connection is found, then they should hang.

Fledermaus said:
Popular uprisings?
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Rent-a-mobs. Let's see how popular they are when there's no foreign money coming in. That's what they were protesting against in the first place, wasn't it?
"Free George Floyd! And... uh... gimme muh money!"


Fledermaus said:
What conspiracy theory are you speaking of now?
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We'll see what comes out. The guilty have plenty of reason to be afraid.
 
sanman said:
Yanuckovitch, the lawfully elected president, was removed by a street coup.
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No, he was removed by the legislature.


Irrelevant to Ukraine.

sanman said:
Rent-a-mobs. Let's see how popular they are when there's no foreign money coming in. That's what they were protesting against in the first place, wasn't it?
"Free George Floyd! And... uh... gimme muh money!"
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Silly talk.

sanman said:
We'll see what comes out. The guilty have plenty of reason to be afraid.
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Afraid of what?
 
sanman said:
Nuland was trying to create a govt of her own choosing -- that was clearly obvious. Who the hell were she or Pyatt to do that?
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It was "clearly obvious" that you said Nuland was trying to overthrow Yanukovych, and yet they wanted him in the new government?

sanman said:
It was pretty much intercepted and published in the media right after it was made
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Who told you that?
 
sanman said:
Oh, so Saddam was your big demon in the 2000s. Your big "Hitler" of the day, before you shifted to Putin.
Remember the Downing Street memorandum?

My, how easily you "Liberals" flip flop

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What 'memorandum'? There is no 'flip-flop'; Saddam was an evil, murderous bastard, just like Putin, Gaddafi, Assad etc.,etc.
 
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