Ukrainian snipers are about to get this powerful new upgrade courtesy of Canada

[slick]

Lol. No one is surprised that you, a Trumper, defends Russia. It's how you folks roll.

Try to get things right for a change, I defend the truth not Russia & do so by contradicting some of your blatantly incorrect posts'
Weren't you the one who claimed the USA was in control of 50% of Syria when Trump decided to pull out of there,
that observation was epic you'll be hard pressed to match that one. But listen up to Victoria Nuland's own words:

US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals.'

Nuland emerged to sound like a bubblegum-chewing Mafia doll. In her leaked
private conversation with the US ambassador to Kiev, the American female
diplomat is heard laying down in imperious tones how a new government in
Ukraine should be constituted. Nuland talks about "gluing together" a sovereign
country as if it is a mere plaything, and she stipulates which members of
the US-backed street rabble in Kiev should or should not be included in any
Washington-approved new government in the former Soviet republic.

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"
BTW there are about 10 other sources similar to this one

I hate to keep you on your toes but please just quit the nonsense!

 

[Fledermaus]

Try to get things right for a change, I defend the truth not Russia & do so by contradicting some of your blatantly incorrect posts'
Weren't you the one who claimed the USA was in control of 50% of Syria when Trump decided to pull out of there,
that observation was epic you'll be hard pressed to match that one. But listen up to Victoria Nuland's own words:

US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals.'

Nuland emerged to sound like a bubblegum-chewing Mafia doll. In her leaked
private conversation with the US ambassador to Kiev, the American female
diplomat is heard laying down in imperious tones how a new government in
Ukraine should be constituted. Nuland talks about "gluing together" a sovereign
country as if it is a mere plaything, and she stipulates which members of
the US-backed street rabble in Kiev should or should not be included in any
Washington-approved new government in the former Soviet republic.

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"
BTW there are about 10 other sources similar to this one

I hate to keep you on your toes but please just quit the nonsense!

RV was responding to DaveFagan and his lie the $5 Billion was CIA funds to institute a "Coup d etat" in the Ukraine.

BTW - Information Clearing House is a Conspiracy Theory cess pool.


Try this link: https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

 

[slick]

RV was responding to DaveFagan and his lie the $5 Billion was CIA funds to institute a "Coup d etat" in the Ukraine.

BTW - Information Clearing House is a Conspiracy Theory cess pool.

This never ends, so the article quoted Victoria Nuland incorrectly, is that what you're imagining? That's why I stated in my post
that there are 10 other sources maybe more
with the same quote by Nuland! Do you think all 10 are 'Conspiracy Theory cess pools' funny stuff. I doubt you want to continue a verbal tug of warover this.

BTW "Coup d etat" in the Ukraine was exactly what Nuland worked on feverishly for half a decade to finally achieve
the Kiev Maidan she wished for. And what a disaster it turned out to be for Ukraine.

My post offerred:
'Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"
BTW there are about 10 other sources similar to this one'

 

[Fledermaus]

This never ends so it quoted Victoria Nuland incorrectly, is that what you're imagining? That's why I stated in my post
that there are 10 other sources maybe more
with the same quote by Nuland! Do you think all 10 are 'Conspiracy Theory cess pools' funny stuff. I doubt you want to continue a verbal tug of was over this

Victoria Nuland Admits: US Has Invested $5 Billion In The Development of Ukrainian, "Democratic Institutions"
BTW there are about 10 other sources similar to this one

Ummmm

Dude.

Did I say ANYTHING about Nuland quotes?

What I said is that the source you used is a crap site. You wish to use crap sites that is up to you.

And I also stated DaveFagan's lie about the $5 Billion being CIA bucks for the overthrow.

As a bonus I provided a link that actually addressed DaveFagan's lie and details where much of the money went...

 

[slick]

Ummmm

Dude.

Did I say ANYTHING about Nuland quotes?

What I said is that the source you used is a crap site. You wish to use crap sites that is up to you.

And I also stated DaveFagan's lie about the $5 Billion being CIA bucks for the overthrow.

As a bonus I provided a link that actually addressed DaveFagan's lie and details where much of the money went...

An article by Robert Perry, is he another 'Conspiracy Theorist' I don't think so but it seems that's the
notion you have to fall back on again & again to counteract realities.

Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s “regime change” in early 2014 without
weighing the likely chaos and consequences. Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried
to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”

Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014
“regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while
convincing the ever-gullible U.S. mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”

Wasn't this poor excuse for a diplomat also the one who stated proudly she spent 5 billion to disstablize Ukraine & wasn't
the Kiev Maidan the hoped result of the expenditure. The Maidan would never have happened without the vicious fervor of Nuland &
her ally the money spent to achieve that result. It's silly to disconnect the two, but have at it.

 

[Evilroddy]

That's $5 billion since independence. Do the math: 2014-1991 = 23 years | $5 billion ÷ 23 years = $22 million per year. Much of that funding was for the de-nuclearization program.

From 1998-2008 US aid to Russia was $752 million = $75 million per year | US aid to Russia slowly faded out yearly after 2008 and terminated in 2010.

To all:

Check the maths. It's off by a factor of ten. $ 5 billion divided by 23 years is an average of $ 217.4 million per year. The actual numbers are 5.1 billion from 1992 to 2014 so the correct ccalculation would be $ 5,100,000,000/23 which comes to an average of $ 221.7 million; or about ten times what was calculated.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

And speaking of Robert Parry here are two videos worth listening to for better context:

https://vimeo.com/223525772

and:



Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fledermaus]

An article by Robert Perry, is he another 'Conspiracy Theorist' I don't think so but it seems that's the
notion you have to fall back on again & again to counteract realities.

Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s “regime change” in early 2014 without
weighing the likely chaos and consequences. Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried
to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”

Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014
“regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while
convincing the ever-gullible U.S. mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”

Wasn't this poor excuse for a diplomat also the one who stated proudly she spent 5 billion to disstablize Ukraine & wasn't
the Kiev Maidan the hoped result of the expenditure. The Maidan would never have happened without the vicious fervor of Nuland &
her ally the money spent to achieve that result. It's silly to disconnect the two, but have at it.

Wow.. A whole lot of CLAIMING with little actual meat.

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

And you haven't even looked at my link. Have you?

 

[Fledermaus]

To all:

Check the maths. It's off by a factor of ten. $ 5 billion divided by 23 years is an average of $ 217.4 million per year. The actual numbers are 5.1 billion from 1992 to 2014 so the correct ccalculation would be $ 5,100,000,000/23 which comes to an average of $ 221.7 million; or about ten times what was calculated.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Thank you.

 

[DaveFagan]

Wow.. A whole lot of CLAIMING with little actual meat.

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

And you haven't even looked at my link. Have you?

The USA builds Democratic Institutions by interfering in internal foreign elections. Now we accuse the Russians of doing that by using social media to the tune of $150,000. We spend $5 billion. It's different when we do it???? No! Interference. Collusion leading to a coup d'etat. Not complicated. Nuland was/is scum and one of your heroes, don't ya' know? Sad.
/

 

[Fledermaus]

The USA builds Democratic Institutions by interfering in internal foreign elections. Now we accuse the Russians of doing that by using social media to the tune of $150,000. We spend $5 billion. It's different when we do it???? No! Interference. Collusion leading to a coup d'etat. Not complicated. Nuland was/is scum and one of your heroes, don't ya' know? Sad.
/

Your RT.COM is showing. Lick Slick you cannot put very many cogent thoughts together and fall back on CT THINKING.

 

[slick]

Wow.. A whole lot of CLAIMING with little actual meat.

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

And you haven't even looked at my link. Have you?

I read your link & it essentially reads like Nuland's remarks
“Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development
of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve
the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals.'

(achieve these and other goals) everyone of the goals she emphasized she completely failed in except the 'other goals'
Look, Since independence in 1991 4 of the 5 elections the Russian leaning candidate won. Our state dept from both parties
didn't expect or like that. Bringing Ukraine toward Europe & away from Russia was paramount in determining how the money was spent.
Not all 5 billion was spent directly to "destabilize" Ukraine most of that money was spent before Nuland arrived on the scene
I don't think Nuland was sicked on Ukraine till around 2010 but once she emerged destabilizing Ukraine was the objective.

She and McCain were among the prime movers of the coup & the coup backfired badly.

And what came about was a world turned upside down, in which Donbass civilians get called terrorists and
the Azov Battalion, composed of the Right Sector & Swoboda ultra nationalist that shields their eyes from
the sunshine with Third Reich gestures, are defending European values.

The Maidan revolution was about bringing democracy to Ukraine...or something. Right? This alienated the people
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already.

Their president was removed - replaced with an interim president who tried to ban their language and appointed
billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections - and then burned the people in Odessa who protested alive.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it.

Let's get the story correct. Russia wanted no war with Ukraine. If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be on the Dneiper River within a week & be at Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely aided the 3 eastern provinces.

 

[Fledermaus]

I read your link & it essentially reads like Nuland's remarks
“Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development
of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve
the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals.'

(achieve these and other goals) everyone of the goals she emphasized she completely failed in except the 'other goals'
Look, Since independence in 1991 4 of the 5 elections the Russian leaning candidate won. Our state dept from both parties
didn't expect or like that. Bringing Ukraine toward Europe & away from Russia was paramount in determining how the money was spent.
Not all 5 billion was spent directly to "destabilize" Ukraine most of that money was spent before Nuland arrived on the scene
I don't think Nuland was sicked on Ukraine till around 2010 but once she emerged destabilizing Ukraine was the objective.

She and McCain were among the prime movers of the coup & the coup backfired badly.

And what came about was a world turned upside down, in which Donbass civilians get called terrorists and
the Azov Battalion, composed of the Right Sector & Swoboda ultra nationalist that shields their eyes from
the sunshine with Third Reich gestures, are defending European values.

The Maidan revolution was about bringing democracy to Ukraine...or something. Right? This alienated the people
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already.

Their president was removed - replaced with an interim president who tried to ban their language and appointed
billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections - and then burned the people in Odessa who protested alive.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it.

Let's get the story correct. Russia wanted no war with Ukraine. If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine
they would be on the Dneiper River within a week & be at Lviv the real heartland
of the coup within a fortnight. Russia merely aided the 3 eastern provinces.

Nice long post...

TLR

Did you actually answer my question?

 

[Rogue Valley]

To all:

Check the maths. It's off by a factor of ten. $ 5 billion divided by 23 years is an average of $ 217.4 million per year. The actual numbers are 5.1 billion from 1992 to 2014 so the correct ccalculation would be $ 5,100,000,000/23 which comes to an average of $ 221.7 million; or about ten times what was calculated.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Thanks. Computer was acting up (was hanging up) and I got a bit distracted.

This is a far cry from Fagan's CT claim that Nuland just dropped by Maidan with sugar-cookies and a $5 billion check for a new government that didn't even exist yet.

 

[Fledermaus]

Thanks. Computer was acting up (was hanging up) and I got a bit distracted.

This is a far cry from Fagan's CT claim that Nuland just dropped by Maidan with sugar-cookies and a $5 billion check for a new government that didn't even exist yet.

Exactly.

 

[Fledermaus]

The USA builds Democratic Institutions by interfering in internal foreign elections. Now we accuse the Russians of doing that by using social media to the tune of $150,000. We spend $5 billion. It's different when we do it???? No! Interference. Collusion leading to a coup d'etat. Not complicated. Nuland was/is scum and one of your heroes, don't ya' know? Sad.
/

"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

Since 1991....

"The insinuation that the United States incited the people of Ukraine to riot or rebel is patently false," said Nicole Thompson, a State Department spokeswoman.

Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries.

About $2.4 billion went to programs promoting peace and security, which could include military assistance, border security, human trafficking issues, international narcotics abatement and law enforcement interdiction, Thompson said. More money went to categories with the objectives of "governing justly and democratically" ($800 million), "investing in people" ($400 million), economic growth ($1.1 billion), and humanitarian assistance ($300 million).

 

[slick]

Nice long post...

TLR

Did you actually answer my question?

I tried!

 

[Fledermaus]

I tried!

You failed.

 

[slick]

You failed.

How so?

 

[Fledermaus]

How so?

Did you actually answer my question?

 

[Fledermaus]

How so?

REMINDER:

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

 

[slick]

REMINDER:

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

Read what I posted. Before Victoria Nuland arrived on the scene a significant portion of the 5 Billion was spent by the US
with the pretense of an innocent bystander supporting democracy from afar. But Nuland acted like an agent provocateur
in Ukraine affairs once she entered the fray. Nuland would have been even more of a failed diplomat if she ever suggested
the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine? But that was her goal and she spent much of what she had left at HER disposal to do so.

This is becoming some heavy lifting on my part so here goes. Much 5 Billion spent was before Nuland screwed things
up as much as one could have so no the 5 billion Nuland didn't spend to destablize Ukraine. Nulled however was the prime
mover.

 

[Fledermaus]

Read what I posted. Before Victoria Nuland arrived on the scene a significant portion of the 5 Billion was spent by the US
with the pretense of an innocent bystander supporting democracy from afar. But Nuland acted like an agent provocateur
in Ukraine affairs once she entered the fray. Nuland would have been even more of a failed diplomat if she ever suggested
the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine? But that was her goal and she spent much of what she had left at HER disposal to do so.

This is becoming some heavy lifting on my part so here goes. Much 5 Billion spent was before Nuland screwed things
up as much as one could have so no the 5 billion Nuland didn't spend to destablize Ukraine. Nulled however was the prime
mover.

YOU stated "Wasn't this poor excuse for a diplomat also the one who stated proudly she spent 5 billion to disstablize Ukraine & wasn't the Kiev Maidan the hoped result of the expenditure."

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

She didn't.

You fail.

 

[slick]

YOU stated "Wasn't this poor excuse for a diplomat also the one who stated proudly she spent 5 billion to disstablize Ukraine & wasn't the Kiev Maidan the hoped result of the expenditure."

Where exactly did she state the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine?

She didn't.

You fail.

It's not what she said it's what she did & like I suggested. Nuland would have been even more of a failed diplomat if she ever suggested
the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine? But that was her goal and she spent much of what she had left at HER disposal to do so.
Don't erect a cathedral over one perhaps misused word.

Was the West powerless to stop Russia? A little late to ask that question, don't you think. Maybe the big brains in the EU and US should
have asked themselves that question before they spent $5 billion funding the "pro-democracy" groups that ultimately overthrew
the elected government in the Ukraine.

Nuland's folly was a complete disaster. In the last legitimate election the 3 regions that revolted voted almost
unaminously for the Russian leaning candidate Yanukovich who was ousted in
the 'coup' when insurrection occurred in the breakaway regions of Luhansk &
Donetsk, the Ukraine Army tried to quell the insurgency in the ethnic Russian
regions. Russia always the protector of the slavs moved in and the rest is history.


Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.76 Tymoshenko 7.72%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%

Also rans: Tihipko Yatsenyuk Yushchenko

 

[Fledermaus]

It's not what she said it's what she did & like I suggested. Nuland would have been even more of a failed diplomat if she ever suggested
the $5 Billion was to "destabilize" the Ukraine? But that was her goal and she spent much of what she had left at HER disposal to do so.
Don't erect a cathedral over one perhaps misused word.

Was the West powerless to stop Russia? A little late to ask that question, don't you think. Maybe the big brains in the EU and US should
have asked themselves that question before they spent $5 billion funding the "pro-democracy" groups that ultimately overthrew
the elected government in the Ukraine.

Nuland's folly was a complete disaster. In the last legitimate election the 3 regions that revolted voted almost
unaminously for the Russian leaning candidate Yanukovich who was ousted in
the 'coup' when insurrection occurred in the breakaway regions of Luhansk &
Donetsk, the Ukraine Army tried to quell the insurgency in the ethnic Russian
regions. Russia always the protector of the slavs moved in and the rest is history.


Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.76 Tymoshenko 7.72%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%

Also rans: Tihipko Yatsenyuk Yushchenko

YOU STATED : "Wasn't this poor excuse for a diplomat also the one who stated proudly she spent 5 billion to disstablize Ukraine"

YOU STATED : It's not what she said it's what she did & like I suggested.

Derp.

You fail.