• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ukraine says they will make a nuke if Western nations stop helping them.

I

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
83,330
Reaction score
39,892
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This is a brilliant move and not a bluff either. Ukraine has had the capability to make a plutonium bomb since the start of the war, that is a given. Ukraine will not surrender to Putin no matter what the west says or does. If the west is worried about a nuclear conflict between Russia and Ukraine they must give Ukraine the conventional weapons to win this war. It also make clear what a psycho Putin is. He has zero chance of getting his way in Ukraine and still does not care that 1000+ Russians a day are fighting a hopeless war.

 
Last edited:
Have they withdrawn from the Non-Proliferation Treaty? I think it specifies a three month notice.
 
Isidore said:
Have they withdrawn from the Non-Proliferation Treaty? I think it specifies a three month notice.
Click to expand...
They are not making any nukes now so no. They are merely promising Putin that he will never win in Ukraine and they will nuke Russia if that becomes the only way to assure that. If the world wants to avoid a nuclear war they know what they must do and Ukraine is praying they will.
 



“Everything is going well, and we are winning the war easily against the Russians. In unrelated news, our leadership is now fantasizing about using nukes”



Ukraine clearly doesn’t think Putin has “zero chance of getting his way” or they wouldn’t be talking about reducing their country to a radioactive wasteland. The much vaunted Kursk offensive turned out to be another dud, accomplishing nothing of note.

Fascinating how you’ve suddenly decided using nukes is “brilliant” though after months of shrieking about how the “entire world” would condemn their use

Oh, and given the fact nuclear programs take years to develop working weapons during peacetime— the US, working at a frantic pace with a homeland largely safe from enemy attack, could only do it in roughly five years— how exactly is Ukraine going to get nukes in the first place? Is it going to beg the West for those too? I can’t see any way any Western politician with a working brain agrees to that.
 
iguanaman said:
This is a brilliant move and not a bluff either.
Click to expand...


How do you know that?




iguanaman said:
Ukraine has had the capability to make a plutonium bomb since the start of the war, that is a given.
Click to expand...


Again, how do you know that?








Mr Zelensky's Victory Plan is anything but a victory plan. It reads more like an obituary
 
There's no way Russia will ever win this war.
 
Reactions: PoS
I doubt we'll allow Ukraine to have a nuke, largely because they'll use it. The whole point of nukes is that no one wants them used and so no one uses them. Only a madman would think a nuclear war would end in their favor.
 
Juin said:
How do you know that?







Again, how do you know that?









Mr Zelensky's Victory Plan is anything but a victory plan. It reads more like an obituary
Click to expand...
LOL Trust me. Ukraine has plenty of plutonium and making a bomb when you have that is child's play for Ukraine. They have not and will not need to do it as long as the west supplies them with the conventional weapons they need to win. Putin was a fool to attack a country with many nuclear power plants. They produce plutonium as a byproduct.
 
If they have the capability then haven't they been working on it already? Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
 
Teatime said:
I doubt we'll allow Ukraine to have a nuke, largely because they'll use it. The whole point of nukes is that no one wants them used and so no one uses them. Only a madman would think a nuclear war would end in their favor.
Click to expand...
Ukraine does not need our permission to make a nuke and they have only stated that it is a last resort measure only. But you are right, the west does not want nukes to be used and that means they need to supply Ukraine with the weapons they need to defeat Russia. Ukraine would rather commit suicide then be enslaved again by Russia they know that nuking Moscow would not bring them victory but they would sure go out with a bang.
 
psikeyhackr said:
If they have the capability then haven't they been working on it already? Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Click to expand...
That would be classified info but no they have not admitted to working on a nuke. They could have one in a month if they wanted to though.
 
Israel won't admit to having nukes or not having nukes, and has not asked anyone for permission, but it's an open secret that they possess about forty of them. UKR could go the exact same route, and never admit to having them or not having them.
They have the brains, they have the refined fissile material and they have the ability to manufacture them. They also have prior experience handling them.
 
Teatime said:
Yes, they do. Unofficially, of course. If we don't want them to have a nuke then we'll quietly pay 3rd parties, and use our black ops, to make sure they never get them.
Click to expand...
LOL You really underestimate the Ukrainians. Putin made the same mistake. If Ukraine runs out of weapons they will drop a nuke on Russia and no one on earth can stop them. Russia will never win in Ukraine.

 
iguanaman said:
LOL You really underestimate the Ukrainians.
Click to expand...
Not at all, I just have an understanding of the US's capabilities. Ukraine will not be allowed to have a nuke unless the US approves. The scary thing is the US may approve so that Ukraine uses it, so that the US can pretend we didn't know and assert more direct military control over Ukraine to both keep Russia back and assume control over the energy recourses. Politics is dirty, we've toppled legitimately elected leaders for less.
 
I actually… tend to agree. No nuclear weapons state has suffered war on its home soil, period. Would we have invaded Iraq if they had tested a nuclear device? No. Would Russia have attempted to conquer Ukraine if the latter had a nuke? No. So, this actually is an interesting idea. Let’s play it out. Ukraine detonates a KT test device then announces they have 3 more, and will deploy unless Russia withdraws to its territory.

What’s Russia going to do?

Use a weapon of its own? Putin is buried in a shallow grave by the end of the week.

Keep fighting conventionally? Ukraine uses a weapon and (a) the world mobilizes to stop the war and (b) Putin is in a shallow grave by the end of the week.

Putin would withdraw. And a deal is offered: Ukraine will de-nuclearize but with NATO admission, and in exchange Russia gets Crimea recognized and accepts peace with NATO.

I like it.
 
Nuke held together by duct tape vs. real tried & tested nukes. That's mighty smart thinking.
 
phoenix2020 said:
No nuclear weapons state has suffered war on its home soil, period.
Click to expand...
?? Huh ?? Pakistan and India are both nuclear weapon states, and they constantly war against each other in disputed territories. Israel has been a nuclear state for more than 30 years, and their home soil has been under periodic rocket bombardment for generations already.


If Ukraine became nuclear capable, there's no reason for them to give up Crimea.
 
America needs to remember why we are a signatory on the Budapest Memorandum.
 
MamboDervish said:
?? Huh ?? Pakistan and India are both nuclear weapon states, and they constantly war against each other in disputed territories.
Click to expand...
Nothing major since they both detonated devices in the 1990s. Since then, skirmishes. Violent, ugly ones, yet skirmishes nonetheless. Also, no repeat of a Sino-Indian war either

“Israel has been a nuclear state for more than 30 years, and their home soil has been under periodic rocket bombardment for generations already.”

Should have clarified that my comment was addressed to nation states, not terrorist orgs like Hamas or
Al-qaida.

MamboDervish said:
If Ukraine became nuclear capable, there's no reason for them to give up Crimea.
Click to expand...
I agree. Crimea would be the carrot in exchange for Ukraine induction into NATO.
 
Ukraine should build nukes regardless, whether the West helps or not. It was a huge betrayal when Ukraine gave up its nukes and the West didnt bat an eye when Russia took Crimea. Thanks, Obama.
 
Zelensky can go pound sand.
 
Easier to get rid of Zelensky.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…