UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment (1 Viewer)

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Wow... YOU made a claim then I asked you to clarify it and your link doesn't even support you but I am playing tricks? You've always eventually resorted to dishonesty and blather eventually in your debates but this is a new low for you.
The funny part in this thread is where you claimed other posters who refused to give your weak arguments any time "couldn't debate."

Anyone familiar with the psychological parameters governing in these cases, will long since have concluded that those most prone to accuse others of being poor debaters are actually those that cannot debate at all.

Demonstrating that by, like in this case, substituting a load of illogical blather to fill the void.

Even when they're shown (as you did in your post #81) how their own (provided) link tanks their argument, they clutch at any straw in the delusion of actually having grabbed a timber beam and thus they continue to sink.

Pointing out how little response their offerings merit is the only way to go.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Excuse me? You demanded to know if the ratings agencies were going to downgrade, and I gave you a direct answer to it. What is clear here is that you went off on a tangent and it has become your sole point in this debate, which is very dishonest. Stick to the subject matter.

Goodbye.

~ don't call me a liar when you have no idea what the hell you're talking about ~

OK, find me a definition for "Rum" and post it here with link.

If you're happy to call something "Rum" when it plainly isn't "Rum," I'll have some "Canadian whisky" here to sell you after I've been to the toilet. I can provide you plenty "samples..." um "whisky" for when your carcinogenic rotgut finally eats through.

~ Even when they're shown (as you did in your post #81) how their own (provided) link tanks their argument ~

I've really got to learn to stop replying to people like that. Something in me keeps hoping for an intelligent, well thought out reply but he never fails to disappoint.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

~........................I've really got to learn to stop replying to people like that. Something in me keeps hoping for an intelligent, well thought out reply but he never fails to disappoint.

Speaking of which (whom), I see that Boris had done kind of a back-pedal in his campaign today. In that he considers a no-deal crash-out to be the very last resort.

I loved the bit about voters being tired of politicos not speaking clearly and how he is much more honest (as an excuse for having called Burkha-clads letterboxes).

One could credit him with having expressed regret over any offense his letterbox comment might have caused, but this is BoJo.

What with everybody knowing that honesty and BoJo don't even speak to each other, he can be just as fittingly disregarded as some guys in this thread.

 

[zyzygy]

LOL you live in a freaking different universe.

1) The UK-US relationship is fully dependent on what the US wants. The UK will be a vassal state of the US if not worse if it moves even more towards the US.
2) By not paying the divorce bill, the UK will become untrustable in the financial markets and politically. That will matter and you even trying to gloss over it, shows how little you know and how biased you are.
3) Calling the EU spineless and insulting 27 nations and 500 million people is pathetic. Face the facts for once in your life. The EU has been playing hardball the whole time, and it is the British who have failed time and time again to come up with a plan that could be accepted.. why? Because the British dont know what the hell they are doing or want.

The EU has been open and transparent from the start on what conditions it has, and we still don't know what the **** the Brits want or have as a solution to the key problems.. The British think they can have their cake and eat it (or whatever the saying is), and life is not like that.

The Brits want to leave, fine, but in no way would it be in the interest of the EU members, that the British would retain the same access without any consequences and this part the British right wing do not understand. They do not even understand what going under WTO rules actually means and they have lied constantly to the British public. At the same time, the government with its ministers and backers who will benefit financially from Brexit and some even links to Putin, have failed time after time to get basic agreements (that they did not need to leave in the first place) on everything from nuclear power to airline access to even guaranteeing that British pensioners can live within the EU without too much fuss. They have also failed to guarantee EU citizens in the UK and have in fact worked damn hard to make it as hard as possible for EU citizens to remain.. why is that?

So stop making the EU the bad guy here.. no it is clear for even the neutral viewer (and no I am not one), that the root problem here is the Tory party. The UK could have been out of the EU months ago, but nooooo the Tories had to get in bed with racist sexist Northern Irish assholes who want war.. and guess what, the chance of the troubles getting hot again are going up day by day thanks to Farage and Boris.. Congrats!

Not all Brits want to leave.

 

[zyzygy]

Here is a typical Boris supporting Brexiteer.

A Leave voter who wants to exit the European Union so the UK can take “control of our own laws” has been embarrassed on a radio phone-in when he failed to name a single EU law he was most keen to get rid of.

Ashley, a self-employed electrician who called in to James O’Brien’s LBC radio show, claimed he was willing to take a “short-term” financial hit to his business if it meant leaving the EU.

Leave voter who wants to 'control our own laws' can't name single EU law | The Independent

 

[Chagos]

Here is a typical Boris supporting Brexiteer.

A Leave voter who wants to exit the European Union so the UK can take “control of our own laws” has been embarrassed on a radio phone-in when he failed to name a single EU law he was most keen to get rid of.

Ashley, a self-employed electrician who called in to James O’Brien’s LBC radio show, claimed he was willing to take a “short-term” financial hit to his business if it meant leaving the EU.

Leave voter who wants to 'control our own laws' can't name single EU law | The Independent

Yeah, if it weren't so sad it would be funny.

There's an English phone-in radio station for expats down here that I sometimes listen to when in I'm in the car and you get the same crap spouted by the hard brexiteer callers. It's pretty balanced though in that other callers (even Leavers) take them apart.

 

[Snazzy]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Speaking of which (whom), I see that Boris had done kind of a back-pedal in his campaign today. In that he considers a no-deal crash-out to be the very last resort.

This is why this whole "deal" fiasco makes no sense to me.

May's deal won't fly, and the EU aren't budging.

Am I missing something here?

So the way things currently stand at the moment, a no-deal crash-out is the ONLY resort, NOT the last resort.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

This is why this whole "deal" fiasco makes no sense to me.

May's deal won't fly, and the EU aren't budging.

Am I missing something here?

So the way things currently stand at the moment, a no-deal crash-out is the ONLY resort, NOT the last resort.

That parliament rejected an exclusion (call it prohibition) of a no-deal exit should be seen in its context. That context being that the motion came from Corbyn and even most no-deal enemies in the Tories weren't going to give support to Labour on that.

What BoJo is aware of however (I've pointed out that he's not stupid despite having the buffoon record) is that if he pursues a no-deal exit, he's going to face a no-confidence vote in parliament. Which the Tories will lose on account of not every Tory's loyalty to the party stretching that far. Many of those that voted down yesterday's motion are aware of plenty of future opportunities to scuttle a no-deal scenario and will, if push comes to shove in that manner, swallow the toad of general elections.

IOW we're all no further than before in the sense that Boris is or will be just as hamstrung as Theresa was. I suspect that, should the Tories hoist him into the saddle, most will do it in the awareness of his being able to secure a deal that is only along the lines (IOW not much dissimilar) to the one we already have. Just that his charisma will assist him into spinning it thru parliament better than May was able to.

Of course the ERG fraudsters won't share that view but they do not constitute a Tory majority.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

~ IOW we're all no further than before in the sense that Boris is or will be just as hamstrung as Theresa was. I suspect that, should the Tories hoist him into the saddle, most will do it in the awareness of his being able to secure a deal that is only along the lines (IOW not much dissimilar) to the one we already have. Just that his charisma will assist him into spinning it thru parliament better than May was able to ~

Don't disagree ANY of this. BoJo may appeal to the insane or those wishing harm on the UK but the final fact is "where will we be in comparison to 2015?"

The "Brexit" genie will have been out of the bottle for 4+ years and what will it have achieved?

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Don't disagree ANY of this. BoJo may appeal to the insane or those wishing harm on the UK but the final fact is "where will we be in comparison to 2015?"

The "Brexit" genie will have been out of the bottle for 4+ years and what will it have achieved?

an exit nowhere near as simple and beneficial as both the liars and the simpleton dreamers envisaged, with future trade deals still to be struck.

There is no reason to assume that the EU will retreat from its position of divorce and future trade relations being two different issues altogether, the latter not being brought onto the table until the former is finalized. If all of May's attempts to marry the two into one bundle were repeatedly thwarted in the past, why would a new PM suddenly change Brussels' position on that?

Of course withholding the settlement fee (something BoJo has meanwhile become conspicuously vague upon) will tank any future UK-EU deal for a very long, long time, while prorogation of parliament (by now cloaked in even greater fog) will show us a new catapult.

These "alternatives" will not float and anyone that tries them might just as well slit their own throat, from BoJo all the way thru the whole party, ERG included.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

~ why would a new PM suddenly change Brussels' position on that ~

My suspicion is he'll go for the Canada+++ deal that was offered and never taken up by Theresa May.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

That parliament rejected an exclusion (call it prohibition) of a no-deal exit should be seen in its context. That context being that the motion came from Corbyn and even most no-deal enemies in the Tories weren't going to give support to Labour on that.

What BoJo is aware of however (I've pointed out that he's not stupid despite having the buffoon record) is that if he pursues a no-deal exit, he's going to face a no-confidence vote in parliament. Which the Tories will lose on account of not every Tory's loyalty to the party stretching that far. Many of those that voted down yesterday's motion are aware of plenty of future opportunities to scuttle a no-deal scenario and will, if push comes to shove in that manner, swallow the toad of general elections.

IOW we're all no further than before in the sense that Boris is or will be just as hamstrung as Theresa was. I suspect that, should the Tories hoist him into the saddle, most will do it in the awareness of his being able to secure a deal that is only along the lines (IOW not much dissimilar) to the one we already have. Just that his charisma will assist him into spinning it thru parliament better than May was able to.

Of course the ERG fraudsters won't share that view but they do not constitute a Tory majority.

I wish I shared your optimism. Oliver Letwin is now saying there's pretty much nothing parliament can do to stop no deal if that's what the PM goes for.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

My suspicion is he'll go for the Canada+++ deal that was offered and never taken up by Theresa May.

Yeah, not unlikely at all.

One can then argue whether that is actually the better deal as promised, but he can always say that he never ruled the option out.

What it certainly won't do is address the Irish border issue.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

I wish I shared your optimism.

Please do not mistake my "analysis" for an expression of optimism.

Oliver Letwin is now saying there's pretty much nothing parliament can do to stop no deal if that's what the PM goes for.

His pessimism is understandable. Where there are nevertheless still options open to parliament, the question remains of whether it'll take any of them.

I see yesterday's downvote as a manifestation of not caving to Labour and as such without a fixed future way-to-go if push really comes to shove.

But it would take guts on the part of a more sizeable number of Tories to trash a PM they've just hoisted into the saddle. And guts in that lot (as well as in Labour) appear to currently be in short supply.

 

[Snazzy]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

What it certainly won't do is address the Irish border issue.

Which has pretty much been the death knell for May's deal - or certainly the main gripe for many.

I doubt the best deal the world has ever seen would get rubber stamped if it doesn't solve the Irish border issue.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Which has pretty much been the death knell for May's deal - or certainly the main gripe for many.

I doubt the best deal the world has ever seen would get rubber stamped if it doesn't solve the Irish border issue.

A doubt we certainly share.

 

[Snazzy]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

But it would take guts on the part of a more sizeable number of Tories to trash a PM they've just hoisted into the saddle. And guts in that lot (as well as in Labour) appear to currently be in short supply.

That would without a doubt cause the Tory party to implode on an enormous scale - and would leave voters running straight into the arms of Farage.

 

[Chagos]

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

That would without a doubt cause the Tory party to implode on an enormous scale - and would leave voters running straight into the arms of Farage.

Who, despite havingmade great inroads on Tories already, barely managed to secure a third of the vote in the recent election that was NOT!!! a national election.

One should decidedly not confuse the two types of election.