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U. S. was founded on Christian Principles

On talk radio I hear it said that the U. S. was founded on Christian Principles. What I want to know is what those principles were?
The vast majority of conservative Christians of the time did not consider the Founders to be motivated by "Christian principles". This slogan is an attempt by the far-right to harmonize their twisted ideology with that of the founders (even though they have far more in common with the British Monarchy than they do with the Founders). Someone who edits all references to the supernatural out of the Bible and publicly declares the Virgin Birth a ignorant myth (Jefferson) would be considered a "heretic" today by the Christian Reich, and much more so back then (when society was much more religious).
 
Depends on the Christian you talk to.

Which is how and why the U.S. was not founded on Christian anything. It is true that many (if not most or all?) of the colonies that became the 13 original U.S. states had legal charters that declared that the purpose of the colonies was to promote Christianity. But no majority of these colonies legally recognized the same form of Christianity. Massachusetts/Maine was Puritan/Congregational; the southern colonies recognized Anglicanism; Maryland was Roman Catholic. Jews were either barred from holding public office or barred period from staying more than 24 hours in many of the colonies, while all religions were welcome in Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Connecticut.

And then with independence and ever since no single sect of Christianity has ever had a national majority.

BTW: The U.S. Constitution legally recognizes Jesus Christ in that the Constitution was done in convention in the year of our Lord 1787 as per the last article written at the Constitutional Convention. Jesus Christ is not expressly named in the document, but Jesus Christ is the only person to whom this dating style has ever been applied. However, the Constitution does not clarify who Jesus Christ is or whether or not He is God.
 
The vast majority of conservative Christians of the time did not consider the Founders to be motivated by "Christian principles". This slogan is an attempt by the far-right to harmonize their twisted ideology with that of the founders (even though they have far more in common with the British Monarchy than they do with the Founders). Someone who edits all references to the supernatural out of the Bible and publicly declares the Virgin Birth a ignorant myth (Jefferson) would be considered a "heretic" today by the Christian Reich, and much more so back then (when society was much more religious).

Here's a quote from a letter written by John Adams that is often cited in support of the view that the U. S. was founded on Christian principles:


Could my answer be understood by any candid reader or hearer, to recommend to all the others the general principles, institutions, or systems of education of the Roman Catholics, or those of the Quakers, or those of the Presbyterians, or those of the Methodists, or those of the Moravians, or those of the Universalists, or those of the Philosophers? No. The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence.


Here's the entire letter:


TO THOMAS JEFFERSON.

Quincy, 28 June, 1813.

It is very true that the denunciations of the priesthood are fulminated against every advocate for a complete freedom of religion. Comminations, I believe, would be plenteously pronounced by even the most liberal of them, against atheism, deism,—against every man who disbelieved or doubted the resurrection of Jesus, or the miracles of the New Testament. Priestley himself would denounce the man who should deny the Apocalypse, or the prophecies of Daniel. Priestley and Lindsey have both denounced as idolaters and blasphemers all the Trinitarians and even the Arians. Poor weak man! when will thy perfection arrive? Thy perfectibility I shall not deny, for a greater character than Priestley or Godwin has said, “Be ye perfect,” &c. For my part, I cannot “deal damnation round the land” on all I judge the foes of God or man. But I did not intend to say a word on this subject in this letter. As much of it as you please, hereafter; but let me now return to politics.

With some difficulty I have hunted up or down the “address of the young men of the city of Philadelphia, the district of Southwark, and the northern liberties,” and the answer.

The addressers say, “actuated by the same principles on which our forefathers achieved their independence, the recent attempts of a foreign power to derogate from the rights and dignity of our country, awaken our liveliest sensibility and our strongest indignation.” Huzza, my brave boys! Could Thomas Jefferson or John Adams hear these words with insensibility and without emotion? These boys afterwards add, “we regard our liberty and independence as the richest portion given us by our ancestors.” And who were these ancestors? Among them were Thomas Jefferson and John Adams; and I very coolly believe that no two men among these ancestors did more towards it than those two. Could either hear this like a statue? If, one hundred years hence, your letters and mine should see the light, I hope the reader will hunt up this address, and read it all, and remember that we were then engaged, or on the point of engaging, in a war with France. I shall not repeat the answer till we come to the paragraph upon which you criticized to Dr. Priestley, though every word of it is true; and I now rejoice to see it recorded, though I had wholly forgotten it.

The paragraph is, “Science and morals are the great pillars on which this country has been raised to its present population, opulence, and prosperity; and these alone can advance, support, and preserve it. Without wishing to damp the ardor of curiosity, or influence the freedom of inquiry, I will hazard a prediction, that after the most industrious and impartial researches, the longest liver of you all will find no principles, institutions, or systems of education more fit, in general, to be transmitted to your posterity than those you have received from your ancestors.”1

Now, compare the paragraph in the answer with the paragraph in the address, as both are quoted above, and see if we can find the extent and the limits of the meaning of both.

Who composed that army of fine young fellows that was then before my eyes? There were among them Roman Catholics, English Episcopalians, Scotch and American Presbyterians, Methodists, Moravians, Anabaptists, German Lutherans, German Calvinists, Universalists, Arians, Priestleyans, Socinians, Independents, Congregationalists, Horse Protestants, and House Protestants,2 Deists and Atheists, and Protestants “qui ne croyent rien.” Very few, however, of several of these species; nevertheless, all educated in the general principles of Christianity, and the general principles of English and American liberty.

Could my answer be understood by any candid reader or hearer, to recommend to all the others the general principles, institutions, or systems of education of the Roman Catholics, or those of the Quakers, or those of the Presbyterians, or those of the Methodists, or those of the Moravians, or those of the Universalists, or those of the Philosophers? No. The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system. I could, therefore safely say, consistently with all my then and present information, that I believed they would never make discoveries in contradiction to these general principles. In favor of these general principles, in philosophy, religion, and government, I could fill sheets of quotations from Frederic of Prussia, from Hume, Gibbon, Bolingbroke, Rousseau, and Voltaire, as well as Newton and Locke; not to mention thousands of divines and philosophers of inferior fame.

I might have flattered myself that my sentiments were sufficiently known to have protected me against suspicions of narrow thoughts, contracted sentiments, bigoted, enthusiastic, or superstitious principles, civil, political, philosophical, or ecclesiastical. The first sentence of the preface to my Defence of the Constitution, vol. i., printed in 1787, is in these words: “The arts and sciences, in general, during the three or four last centuries, have had a regular course of progressive improvement. The inventions in mechanic arts, the discoveries in natural philosophy, navigation, and commerce, and the advancement of civilization and humanity, have occasioned changes in the condition of the world, and the human character, which would have astonished the most refined nations of antiquity,” &c. I will quote no farther, but request you to read again that whole page, and then say whether the writer of it could be suspected of recommending to youth “to look backward instead of forward,” for instruction and improvement. This letter is already too long. In my next, I shall consider “the terrorism of the day.”

[1 ] For the whole of the answer, of which this is a part, see vol. ix. p. 188.

[2 ] All the later letters of Mr. Adams are much marred in the copying. Unless these words refer to Messrs. Horne and Howes, two of the disputants with Dr. Priestley in England, the editor cannot explain them.​

It turns out that Adams had a rather unconventional view of Christian Principles. To Adams, Christian Principles were only those principles that were common to both believers and atheists.

I wonder what principles Adams believed united believers and atheists.
 
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Which is how and why the U.S. was not founded on Christian anything. It is true that many (if not most or all?) of the colonies that became the 13 original U.S. states had legal charters that declared that the purpose of the colonies was to promote Christianity. But no majority of these colonies legally recognized the same form of Christianity. Massachusetts/Maine was Puritan/Congregational; the southern colonies recognized Anglicanism; Maryland was Roman Catholic. Jews were either barred from holding public office or barred period from staying more than 24 hours in many of the colonies, while all religions were welcome in Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Connecticut.

And then with independence and ever since no single sect of Christianity has ever had a national majority.

BTW: The U.S. Constitution legally recognizes Jesus Christ in that the Constitution was done in convention in the year of our Lord 1787 as per the last article written at the Constitutional Convention. Jesus Christ is not expressly named in the document, but Jesus Christ is the only person to whom this dating style has ever been applied. However, the Constitution does not clarify who Jesus Christ is or whether or not He is God.

Did you know that the Convention didn't vote to include the reference to "our Lord" in the date?
 
While a few of the original immigrants from the Mayflower were religious extremists, the majority were economic migrants.
 
Did you know that the Convention didn't vote to include the reference to "our Lord" in the date?

It is in the document that the Convention sent to the Confederation Congress for transmittal to the states for ratification. In all likelihood the reference was added by either the Convention's committee on style or by the Convention's secretary who may have prepared the copy that the delegates signed. But either way, if any of the delegates to the Convention objected to it, I know of no record of how the issue was settled.
 
While a few of the original immigrants from the Mayflower were religious extremists, the majority were economic migrants.

How many of these economic migrants refused to sign the Mayflower Compact that was written “in the name of God. Amen” by the subjects of King James who “having undertaken, for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith” a voyage to plant a colony in the northern parts of Virginia?
 
In god we trust enough of a clue










please click
 
The United States is a secular state. It was (and still is) the refugee camp for those who have been religiously displaced; Here is an interesting story about a secret mission to rescue Yemeni Jews from Orthopraxy Muslims.


THe principles, however, are Christian in nature.

Then why are there so many legal documents that say the U.S. was founded in the name of the Christian God in order to promote Christianity? Can you legally promote Christianity in what was founded as a secular state?

When the First Amendment was ratified some of the states had religious requirements to hold public office at the state level; there seems to be an ongoing dispute in North Carolina over whether or not an atheist can be elected to public office in that state according to its current constitution.

Some of these same states had churches that were maintained by state tax revenue up until the 1940s, and the restrictions on Jews holding public office (even so much as a notary public) in Maryland was not struck by the U.S. Supreme Court until the 1960s.
 
Which was not put on money until 1864.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust]In God We Trust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The last stanza of The Star Spangled Banner, written in 1814, concludes with the expression “and this be our motto; ‘in God is our trust’”.

Although neither The Star Spangled Banner, or U.S. coin and currency, nor any other legal use of the motto designates the Lord God of Israel as the god in question.
 
Obviously, the clause in the national anthem even contains "God" within it.
 
Obviously, the clause in the national anthem even contains "God" within it.

The Star Spangled Banner did not become the U.S. national anthem until long after it was written, although it enjoyed wide popularity as a song from the time it was written.
 
I want to know why the hell it matters.
 
In god we trust enough of a clue
Not really. Or which interpretation of the Christian religion is it referring to? "Jefferson" called himself a Christian, but believed that Jesus wasn't even divine, for example (which according to conservative Christians, would make Jefferson not a true Christian).

And if you compare the govt the founders created to that of England (which had Christianity as the state religion along with a "God-appointed monarch"), it is very secular in comparison. In some ways, it still is (for example, Commonweath nations still have Christianity as the state religion and it is acceptable in Canada to fund Catholic schools with taxpayer dollars).
 
Which was not put on money until 1864.
Why would conservatives trouble themselves with learning the facts about our nation's history? It's a lot less trouble just to repeat a meaningless one-liner and pretend that you've proven something.
 
It is in the document that the Convention sent to the Confederation Congress for transmittal to the states for ratification. In all likelihood the reference was added by either the Convention's committee on style or by the Convention's secretary who may have prepared the copy that the delegates signed. But either way, if any of the delegates to the Convention objected to it, I know of no record of how the issue was settled.

It was obviously a way to finesse the religious issue. One side could argue that the document acknowledges the Christian religion. The other side could argue that the lawmakers never actually voted to put it there.

It was all about getting enough votes for ratification.
 
How many of these economic migrants refused to sign the Mayflower Compact that was written “in the name of God. Amen” by the subjects of King James who “having undertaken, for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith” a voyage to plant a colony in the northern parts of Virginia?

Back then, everything was done in the name of God. The Constitution rejected the idea that civil government derived its authority from God in favor of the atheist view that it is derived from the people.
 
When the First Amendment was ratified some of the states had religious requirements to hold public office at the state level
It is true that there were such requirements still on the books in some states. However, it is also true that they were being completely ignored in 1787.

For example. On paper, the North Carolina Constitution prohibited Catholics from holding office. However, some of the state's most prominent officials were Catholic. Also, there were a few atheists who held office at the local level.

Here's an example:



William Joseph Gaston, 19 Sept. 1778-23 Jan. 1844​

William Joseph Gaston (19 Sept. 1778-23 Jan. 1844), lawyer, legislator, congressman, and jurist, was born in New Bern. His father, Alexander Gaston of Huguenot ancestry, was a native of Ireland, trained in medicine, and served as a surgeon in the British navy before settling in Craven County prior to May 1764. His Roman Catholic mother, Margaret Sharpe, went to New Bern from England nine years later. In May 1775, she married Dr. Gaston, who became an ardent patriot with the advent of the American Revolution. He was killed by a party of Tories in August 1781, leaving a widow and two children, William and Jane. Thereafter, the pious and intelligent Mrs. Gaston proceeded to mold her son's character and to instill in him a lasting devotion to the Roman Catholic church. This upbringing in time made Gaston worthy to be called "the greatest lay Catholic in America."

Gaston's formal education began in 1791. After a five-month visit in Philadelphia, he arrived in the autumn of that year in Georgetown on the Potomac River to enroll as the first student at Georgetown College, a recently founded Roman Catholic institution of higher learning. III-health, however, compelled him to leave in the spring of 1793. Back in his native town, Gaston regained his strength and spent the next year as a student at New Bern Academy, where he gave the valedictory in July 1794. After another sojourn in Philadelphia, he was admitted in November to the junior class of the College of New Jersey at Princeton, from which he was graduated at age eighteen at the head of his class. Gaston then returned to New Bern to study law under Francois-Xavier Martin, an eminent attorney. He developed such legal competence that he was admitted to the bar in September 1798. He immediately took over part of the law practice of his brother-in-law, John Louis Taylor, who had been selected a superior court judge. Although Gaston excelled in land cases, he also emerged as a superlative criminal lawyer. A number of students prepared for the bar under his direction.

Politics soon attracted Gaston's attention, and he proved to be an energetic Federalist leader. In 1800 he was elected to the state senate, where he served on several committees and was chairman of three others. He was sent to the House of Commons in 1807, 1808, and 1809. In 1808 he was chosen both speaker of the house and a presidential elector. He ran unsuccessfully for the U.S. House of Representatives in 1810, but again won a seat in the state senate in 1812. The next year he went to Washington as a member of the House in the Thirteenth Congress. He gained experience on several relatively minor committees before working on the important Ways and Means Committee; he was reelected to the Fourteenth Congress. As a congressman Gaston gained a national reputation for the eloquence of his speeches, especially those supporting the Bank of the United States and opposing the Loan Bill, by which President James Madison was to be entrusted with $25 million for the conquest of Canada. He denounced generally the War of 1812 as "forbidden by our interests, and abhorrent from our honour." His speech in reply to Henry Clay's "defense of the previous question" was a particularly noteworthy piece of parliamentary oratory. In January 1815 he presented a petition asking for authority for Georgetown College to award academic degrees. A congressional charter for the school resulted. In 1817, he voluntarily retired from Congress and resumed the practice of law. Daniel Webster, one of many national figures known by Gaston, described him as the greatest man of the War Congress.

Craven County sent Gaston to the state senate in 1818 and 1819. At both sessions he served as chairman of the Judiciary Committee; he was also chairman of the joint legislative committee that in 1818 framed the act creating the North Carolina Supreme Court. Although Gaston never reentered national politics after leaving Congress, President John Quincy Adams considered naming him secretary of war in 1826 because of his faithful support of the administration. In a circular prepared by Gaston for the Committee of Correspondence and Vigilance of New Bern, he announced that the president's wisdom and honesty entitled him to a second term. In his keynote address to the anti-Jackson convention in Raleigh in December 1827, he once more urged that Adams be reelected. Gaston was returned to the House of Commons in 1827 to fill the vacancy for New Bern occasioned by John Stanly's resignation. The next year he was elected to the lower house for a full term and was returned to that body in 1829 and 1831. Besides serving on the judiciary committee during these years, Gaston was chairman of the finance committee, a position that coincided with his interest in banking. In 1828, he was appointed president of the Bank of New Bern and while in the house was able to cooperate with conservative financial groups in an effort to maintain sound banking policies for North Carolina.

He also took a lively interest in internal improvements for the state. In 1827, he was elected the first president of the Agricultural Society of Craven County. The same year he was a delegate to a convention in Washington, N.C., for the purpose of deciding on ways to improve navigation at Ocracoke Inlet; he then tried to help put the measures agreed upon into effect. In July 1833 he attended an internal improvements convention in Raleigh, serving as chairman of the committee to prepare an address to the state and to lay the convention's proceedings before the state legislature. The address, which was his own handiwork, stressed the need for colleges, railroads, hospitals, and asylums for the handicapped. As a member of the House of Commons, Gaston had the satisfaction of introducing the bill to charter the North Carolina Central Railroad.

Gaston's career as a public servant entered a new phase in November 1833, when the General Assembly elected him to the North Carolina Supreme Court. Although Article 32 of the state constitution denied the right to hold state office to anyone who did not believe in "the Truth of the Protestant Religion," Gaston and the politicos concluded that a Roman Catholic was not disbarred by the provision. More than thirty years earlier, former governor Samuel Johnston had given him a written opinion expressing approbation when Gaston first became a member of the state legislature. His most famous decision on the bench came in 1834 with the case of State v. Negro Will. Gaston ruled that a slave had the right to defend himself against an unlawful attempt of a master, or an agent of a master, to kill him. In the significant case of State v. William Manuel in 1838, he held that a manumitted slave was a citizen of the state and thus entitled to the guarantees of the constitution. This opinion was cited as "sound law" in 1857 by Benjamin R. Curtis of the United States Supreme Court in his dissent in the Dred Scott case. The better for the justices to render decisions, Gaston purchased a library for the state supreme court while on a trip to New York City in 1835. When Chief Justice John Marshall died that year, there was speculation that Gaston would succeed him on the United States Supreme Court, a possibility championed by various state newspapers.

Elected by Craven County as its representative to the Constitutional Convention of 1835, Gaston spoke out in favor of continued suffrage for free blacks, federal representation as the basis for representation in the House of Commons, and biennial meetings of the state legislature. However, it was to the fight against Article 32 of the state constitution that he gave most of his considerable oratorical skills, delivering a two-day address against religious tests for public office. In the end, the attempt to expunge all religious qualifications from the constitution failed, but the word "Christian" was substituted for "Protestant." Gaston served on the committee appointed at the convention to draft the proposed amendments to be submitted to the voters of North Carolina.

A deeply religious man, Gaston was also an active Roman Catholic. When Bishop John England visited New Bern from Charleston, S.C., in May 1821, he celebrated in the parlor of the Gaston house his first recorded mass in North Carolina. The bishop designated Gaston one of five Catholics to conduct services every Sunday in the improvised chapel; at the same time a treasury, to which Gaston contributed $700, was established to receive funds for a church building. Appointed a church warden in February 1824, on another visit by England, Gaston suggested a few amendments to the constitution for the Catholic church in North Carolina which the bishop published in New Bern. Plans for a wooden church were finally presented at a meeting in Gaston's law office in October 1839, and he pledged an additional $500 towards the amount needed to construct the edifice. A contract was drawn up between Gaston and the builder the next year. Work on the church was completed in 1841, thus making St. Paul's Church the oldest Roman Catholic church in North Carolina.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/browse/bios/pn0000574_bio.html​
 
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It was obviously a way to finesse the religious issue. One side could argue that the document acknowledges the Christian religion. The other side could argue that the lawmakers never actually voted to put it there.

It was all about getting enough votes for ratification.

But the states did ratify the document after the reference to Christ was added to it and the document became legally-binding once it was ratified.
 
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