Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hosted Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at his official residence in Jerusalem on Wednesday, in what special U.S. envoy George Mitchell described as a sign that both leaders believe a peace deal can be achieved.
The meeting in Jerusalem was the third consecutive session between the leaders over the last two days, a continuation of the direct negotiations that began last month.Following the meeting, Mitchell said that Abbas and Netanyahu had discussed difficult issues "up front" and seemed to be making progress on the contentious issue of settlement construction in the West Bank. "They are tackling up front ... the issues that are at the center of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict," Mitchell told reporters. "I will say that the two leaders are not leaving the tough issues to the end of their discussions ... We take this as a strong indicator of their belief that peace is possible."
U.S. envoy: Israel, Palestinians tackling tough issues up front - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
let's assume the two parties are able to forge a peace agreement
what does that do for israelis if the Palestinians are unwilling to ratify the document, by refusing to adhere to its terms, recognizing abbas is not a legitimate representative of the Palestinian interests
I suspect that Egypt and Jordan would help President Abbas implement the agreement. Both countries see an expansion of peace as being in their interest. Extremist elements such as Hamas would likely find themselves increasingly isolated if they tried to block a historic opportunity for peace given that peace would be in the mutual interests of Israel, the Palestinians, and neighboring Jordan and Egypt.
let's assume the two parties are able to forge a peace agreement
what does that do for israelis if the Palestinians are unwilling to ratify the document, by refusing to adhere to its terms, recognizing abbas is not a legitimate representative of the Palestinian interests
You are wrong. Abbas is legitimate. Hamas is not.
i see it differently
certainly, the Palestinians would accept the concessions the israelis are willing to relinquish as the price to reach agreement with abbas
but i do not envision the Palestinians subscribing to any restrictions abbas has agreed to accept, where those restrictions are not in the Palestinian interests
those arab leaders who would elevate israeli interests above Palestinian expectations would alienate a substantial portion of their constituents against them. they would have to recognize their vulnerability by placing israeli objectives above Palestinian interests
You are wrong. Abbas is legitimate. Hamas is not.
Abbas hasn't had an election for half a decade, as far as I'm aware.
[emphasis added by bubba]The election hasn't been held not because President Abbas has decided to avoid elections. No recent election has been held because Hamas has blocked elections. Just as Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip via force of arms not by rule of law, Hamas has shown no less respect for democratic governance in choosing to try to hang onto power by blocking elections. Most of the world community understands that Hamas, not President Abbas, has taken the non-democratic path. Hence, the world community continues to recognize President Abbas as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians.
[emphasis added by bubba]
ah, but what matters is who the PALESTINIANS view as their legitimate representative
abbas does not appear to be that person
[emphasis added by bubba]
ah, but what matters is who the PALESTINIANS view as their legitimate representative
abbas does not appear to be that person
And neither does Hamas. From a March 2010 poll that covered the issue of legitimacy:
28% believe that Haniyeh’s government is the legitimate one and only 26% say that Abu Mazin’s and Fayyad’s government is the legitimate one, and 31% say both governments are illegitimate. Three months ago, 26% said Haniyeh’s government was the legitimate one and 30% said Fayyad’s government was the legitimate one. Moreover, 53% say PA president Abbas has lost his legitimacy when his term ended and 41% disagree with that. Similarly, 53% say the Palestinian Legislative Council has lost its legitimacy after its term ended and 39% disagree with that.
At the same time, Palestinians supported elections (something Abbas supported and Hamas opposed):
54% support and 41% oppose the holding of local elections in the West Bank next July even if reconciliation talks have not succeeded by then to unify the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Support for holding local elections is higher in the West Bank, reaching 60%, and lower in the Gaza Strip, standing at 46%.
Palestinian Public Opinion Poll No (35), Publications, Palestinian Autonomous Territories, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung
then it appears you have come to agree with me: abbas is not the legitimate representative to negotiate Palestinian interests
which then causes us to ponder why the hell abbas is sitting at the negotiation table
then your sig would have to be "i hate democracy", as you are opposed to the outcome of democratic electionsI don't suppose it would matter if the Palestinians viewed their legitimate leaders as a genocidal terrorist organization? We couldn't possibly "punish them for exercising democracy" just because they elected genocidal racist ideologues engaged in decades of terrorism, could we?
That would be ... what's the word ... treating them like ADULTS or without the colonial sense of supremacy that non-Europeans couldn't possibly be responsible for their own decisions and be responsible for the consequences.
This general infatuation with Hamas (I♥Hamas might as well be your sig) is, frankly, fairly appalling.
about the only folks i know who are opposed to peace are those reich wingers who embrace any act of perpetual war; which only serves to fill the coffers of the military industrial complex while draining our nation's wealth, and most importantly, deprives our young soldiers of their livesThere are way too many westerrn "leftists" who are not even remotely concerned with achieving any sort of actual peace.
it appears that you have never entertained the prospect that some of us value democracy - and that we recognize democratic outcomes as the will of the people being governedWhile supporting Hamas is fully consistent with this anti-peace world-view, the incoherence of it all is a remarkable thing to observe.
tell us why those who engage in democracy are not entitled to self determinationBut sure, ask the Palestinians who they think should lead them. hold elections. Allow anyone to run. But put them on notice that they will be held responsible - if they elect a genocidal terrorist organization, then they get nothing. No money, no support, no state.
and who would be the parents to the Palestinian children with the broken toys?There are only so many times you can break your toy car before your parents stop buying you a new one.
then your sig would have to be "i hate democracy", as you are opposed to the outcome of democratic elections
about the only folks i know who are opposed to peace are those reich wingers who embrace any act of perpetual war; which only serves to fill the coffers of the military industrial complex while draining our nation's wealth, and most importantly, deprives our young soldiers of their lives
it appears that you have never entertained the prospect that some of us value democracy - and that we recognize democratic outcomes as the will of the people being governed
tell us why those who engage in democracy are not entitled to self determination
you would have us believe that the price of democracy is the loss of statehood
you have an array of very queer notions
and who would be the parents to the Palestinian children with the broken toys?
again, you make no sense
then it appears you have come to agree with me: abbas is not the legitimate representative to negotiate Palestinian interests
which then causes us to ponder why the hell abbas is sitting at the negotiation table
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