WASHINGTON — Bush administration officials acknowledged Friday that they had yet to compile evidence strong enough to back up publicly their claims that Iran is fomenting violence against U.S. troops in Iraq.
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates seemed to concede Friday that U.S. officials can't say for sure whether the Iranian government is involved in assisting the attacks on U.S. personnel in Iraq.
"I don't know that we know the answer to that question," Gates said.
Yeah right."The president has made clear, the secretary of State has made clear, I've made clear … we are not planning for a war with Iran," Gates said Friday.
Intelligence Officials Say Weapons Responsible for Increasing U.S. Deaths in Iraq
"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Barry. "So it's the same make and model."
U.S. officials say roadside bomb attacks against American forces in Iraq have become much more deadly as more and more of the Iran-designed and Iran-produced bombs have been smuggled in from the country since last October.
"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."
ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iraq Weapons -- Made in Iran?
Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militias
WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.
This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.
Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.
ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militia
Then how do you explain this?
And this?
Why should we be concerned with having to prove it when Iran freely admits to supplying Iraq insurgents with support?
Then how do you explain this?
Intelligence Officials Say Weapons Responsible for Increasing U.S. Deaths in Iraq
"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Barry. "So it's the same make and model."
U.S. officials say roadside bomb attacks against American forces in Iraq have become much more deadly as more and more of the Iran-designed and Iran-produced bombs have been smuggled in from the country since last October.
"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."
ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iraq Weapons -- Made in Iran?
And this?
Quote:
Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militias
WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.
This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.
Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.
ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militia
Good money says that all of the talking hair-dos (pundits) will overlook this info. I guess we can just accept the lies and be marched toward another neo-con/Zionist war in the ME.
Yeah right.
U.S. can't prove Iran link to Iraq strife - Los Angeles Times
Great, its the same make and model. Want to say where it was made in that case then? A huge order from China or Russia (maybe even from America) during the Saddam years? Or doesn't he know which provides exactly zero evidence.
This story has already been run before. I have zero military expertise but supposedly the increased destruction has been due to insurgents becoming knowledgeable about how to 'shape' the charge so that it can penetrate thick armour. They are still using the same type of decades old artilllary shells as before.
The evidence is strong..what evidence. Rumurs and allegations are proof of nothing. 'Its very hard to escape the conclusion that in all probability' just about sums it up. He's in effect just admitted that they have no evidence to back up the claims, only suspicions.
I'd be interested to know who they seized these things from, if true. But if so it could be evidence, just depends who sold the stuff, who it was given to, who was using it etc.
Iran can completely seal its border with Iraq but the Iraqi govt with thousands of American troops can't seal its own side, very doubtfull. There are lots of possibilities about how/if this happened but the official disregards these in order to promote his pre-determined conclusion.
If they know this for a fact why use the phrase 'believe'?
Of course its a possibilty this may be occuring but this is the same sort of 'proof' that we had in relation to WMD in Iraq. All maybes, buts, ifs, beliefs, possibles etc etc.
Fact is we have proof of nothing...why not just say we suspect Iran may be helping arm Shia groups in Iraq instead of lieing and saying we have proof it is doing so?
Looks like someone is definately trying to push the agenda forward here.
Then how do you explain this?
And this?
Maybe the date on the articles? 02/03/07 vs 03/06/06 and 11/30/06.
Or
Maybe the quotes from the SecDef? :2wave:
Oh so they were supplying IED's last year but out of the kindness of their hearts have decided to stop? Is that your assertion?
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates seemed to concede Friday that U.S. officials can't say for sure whether the Iranian government is involved in assisting the attacks on U.S. personnel in Iraq.
"I don't know that we know the answer to that question," Gates said.
Good money says that all of the talking hair-dos (pundits) will overlook this info. I guess we can just accept the lies and be marched toward another neo-con/Zionist war in the ME.
Yeah right.
U.S. can't prove Iran link to Iraq strife - Los Angeles Times
Blah blah blah:
WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.
Case ****ing closed!
They're Iranian in origin that's a fact and your twisting and wriggling isn't going to get you anywhere.
I guess if they turn up with a brand new Russian or Chinese made AK47 the case is closed that they are also arming our enemies...
You can't get IED's off the shelf they're not for sale on the open market, there would be know way in the world that the Iranian government wouldn't know about it and who they were going to.
I know..as there name suggests you can't buy them or supply them - they're improvised devices - usually decades old artillary shells looted from huge arm depots in the aftermath of the war - the Iranian govt ain't got any control over them.
As the Sec of Def has said already..there is no PROOF that the Iranians are doing any of this..its definatly a possibility but not been proved.
Bullshit these are advanced IED's which the Iranian government specializes in making, they have factories which produce them.
I believe what he meant is that there is no evidence that Iranian operatives are directly engaged in attacking U.S. soldiers.
In that case they would be roadside bombs or maybe even mines, not IEDS's. IED's are devices/explosives which are normally meant for one purpose and then improvised to be used for another i.e converted artillary shells.
WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.
He was asked if they were 'assisting' and he said they couldn't say for sure. Case closed at the moment, if he ain't got any proof about this then there is none.
These advanced IED's were produced in Iranian munition factories:
Again Iranian produced IED's is proof enough.
G-Man said:In that case they would be roadside bombs or maybe even mines, not IEDS's. IED's are devices/explosives which are normally meant for one purpose and then improvised to be used for another i.e converted artillary shells.
While EFPs have served mainly as warheads in military weapons, the war in Iraq has seen a shift in use with their incorporation into IEDs.
EFP IEDs are currently being deployed in Iraq by insurgents [1] to attack Western forces, in particular the many PSD (Personal Security Detail) teams as they operate in light- to medium-armoured vehicles.
Often mounted on crash barriers at window level, they are placed at roadsides where vehicles must slow down at choke points such as intersections and junctions. This gives the operator time to judge the moment to strike, when the vehicle is moving more slowly. The intent is often to penetrate the vehicle crew compartment.
The charges are generally cylindrical, fabricated from commonly available water or oil pipe with the forward end closed by a concave metal disk known as the liner, of copper or steel to create a shaped charge. Explosive is loaded behind the metal liner to fill the pipe. Upon detonation, the explosive projects the liner to form a rod-like projectile at a velocity well over 1 km/s, depending on the design and type of explosive used.
Essentially, the projectile is a potent short-range kinetic-energy penetrator that can easily punch through the protection of light- to medium-armoured vehicles, delivering a wide spray of semi-molten metal and vehicle armour backspall, intended to penetrate the vehicle's exterior, injuring its crew and damaging other systems.
Detonation is controlled by cable, radio control (RC) or remote arming with passive IR (PIR) trigger.
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