U.S. business group accuses Obama of shorting Taiwan

[ludahai]

article here

Well, I have been saying that Obama would not support the democratic nation of Taiwan and its 23 million people. Sadly, the Chinese Nationalist Party here in Taiwan is a part of the problem. When Bush made many of these weapons available, the Chinese KMT blocked the funding because the president was of the Democratic Progressive Party. Now, with one of their own as president, they want them, but Obama seems reluctant to allow Taiwan to build its own self-defense capability.

There are other issues. The beef row has many angry in Taiwan. Taiwanese also want visa-free access to the US (Taiwan already meets all of the requirements asked of other nations and easily falls below the visa rejection threshhold -- and Americans have visa-free access to Taiwan), a TIFA, an FTA and a mutual extradition treaty -- all things the current adminstration is moving slowly on, if at all.

 

[DarkWizard12]

article here

Well, I have been saying that Obama would not support the democratic nation of Taiwan and its 23 million people. Sadly, the Chinese Nationalist Party here in Taiwan is a part of the problem. When Bush made many of these weapons available, the Chinese KMT blocked the funding because the president was of the Democratic Progressive Party. Now, with one of their own as president, they want them, but Obama seems reluctant to allow Taiwan to build its own self-defense capability.

There are other issues. The beef row has many angry in Taiwan. Taiwanese also want visa-free access to the US (Taiwan already meets all of the requirements asked of other nations and easily falls below the visa rejection threshhold -- and Americans have visa-free access to Taiwan), a TIFA, an FTA and a mutual extradition treaty -- all things the current adminstration is moving slowly on, if at all.

What Im afraid of is what the taiwan people will think of the US after this. Taiwan has a very good reputation here, I hope US reputation remains as good in Taiwan.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

article here

Well, I have been saying that Obama would not support the democratic nation of Taiwan and its 23 million people. Sadly, the Chinese Nationalist Party here in Taiwan is a part of the problem. When Bush made many of these weapons available, the Chinese KMT blocked the funding because the president was of the Democratic Progressive Party. Now, with one of their own as president, they want them, but Obama seems reluctant to allow Taiwan to build its own self-defense capability.

There are other issues. The beef row has many angry in Taiwan. Taiwanese also want visa-free access to the US (Taiwan already meets all of the requirements asked of other nations and easily falls below the visa rejection threshhold -- and Americans have visa-free access to Taiwan), a TIFA, an FTA and a mutual extradition treaty -- all things the current adminstration is moving slowly on, if at all.

I wish this quibbling over whether or not Taiwan is an independent nation would finally be over with, so that the people of Taiwan can go on with their lives.

I think it's an insult that the supposed supporters of democracy bow to the demands of China and always follow Taiwan with R.O.C.

 

[ludahai]

What Im afraid of is what the taiwan people will think of the US after this. Taiwan has a very good reputation here, I hope US reputation remains as good in Taiwan.

It is mixed. The US is seen as having bullied Taiwan into accepted "risky beef products" with nothing given in return -- i.e. visa-free entry, TIFA and FTA negotiations, etc.

Taiwan has long been VERY pro-USA and it still is, but there are strains in some elements of Taiwan's population regarding the state of relations between the two countries.

 

[Hatuey]

article here

Well, I have been saying that Obama would not support the democratic nation of Taiwan and its 23 million people. Sadly, the Chinese Nationalist Party here in Taiwan is a part of the problem. When Bush made many of these weapons available, the Chinese KMT blocked the funding because the president was of the Democratic Progressive Party. Now, with one of their own as president, they want them, but Obama seems reluctant to allow Taiwan to build its own self-defense capability.

Obama, much like his predecessor, George W. Bush, has slowed the submission of proposed Taiwan arms sales to Congress, both for what analysts say is fear of disrupting China-Taiwan rapprochement and to avoid angering Beijing.

Seems like your problem is with an American policy. You attempts to try to pin this as 'Obama not supporting the Taiwanese' is kind of see through given the sources in the article and some of the facts stated.

 

[ludahai]

Seems like your problem is with an American policy. You attempts to try to pin this as 'Obama not supporting the Taiwanese' is kind of see through given the sources in the article and some of the facts stated.

The article is not complete. Bush actually authorized many of the weapons Taiwan asked for -- it was the Chinese Nationalist Party that controlled Taiwan's Legislative Yuan who blocked it due to their opposition to the Democratic Progressive Party president.

 

[Hatuey]

The article is not complete.

Oh so now it's not complete? Hm.

Bush actually authorized many of the weapons Taiwan asked for -- it was the Chinese Nationalist Party that controlled Taiwan's Legislative Yuan who blocked it due to their opposition to the Democratic Progressive Party president.

Well then the problem is your own country men not supporting your positions. Ain't democracy grand? If you don't like what your country does - do not try to spin it into 'Obama not supporting the Taiwanese people'. When your article doesn't support that in any way.

 

[ludahai]

Oh so now it's not complete? Hm.



Well then the problem is your own country men not supporting your positions. Ain't democracy grand? If you don't like what your country does - do not try to spin it into 'Obama not supporting the Taiwanese people'. When your article doesn't support that in any way.

Did I ever say the article provided complete information in the issue at hand? No I didn't. Bush was FAR MORE pro-Taiwan than Obama. Bush would have sold Taiwan most of those weapons. I am putting the blame squarely where it belongs -- both on the KMT incompetants here in Taiwan AND on Obama. If you can't accept the truth, then TOUGH!

 

[Hatuey]

Bush was FAR MORE pro-Taiwan than Obama.

You article does not suggest this. Only your opinion. Until you have something more than opinion to provide. I'll see you in the :spin: section.

But just how pro-Taiwan was Bush? Oh I know :

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105239,00.html

Bush Opposes Taiwan Independence


WASHINGTON — Tuesday was not Taiwan's day at the White House, as President Bush announced that the U.S. had asked the island republic to cancel a referendum American officials feel would be provocative toward Beijing.

"The United States policy is one China (search)," Bush said after a 40-minute Oval Office meeting with mainland Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao (search).

"We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo," Bush told reporters, "and the comments and actions made by the leader of Taiwan" — referring to President Chen Shui-bian (search) — "indicate that he may be willing to make decisions unilaterally."

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2592

What was surprising and distressing was the Bush administration's response to China's pressure. How much the administration was willing to accommodate Beijing became evident in December 2003 during a visit by Chinese premier Wen Jiabao. President Bush publicly scolded "Taiwan's leader" for seeking to change the political status of the island unilaterally and emphasized Washington's opposition to any unilateral actions. Chen's principal offense was his proposal to hold the March referendum.

That is no way for Washington to treat another democracy. It is unsavory for the United States to criticize a democratic polity for choosing to hold a referendum on a policy issue-however sensitive that issue might be. It is even worse to criticize such a basic exercise of democracy, as Bush did, while saying nothing about the PRC's destabilizing and provocative deployment of missiles across the Taiwan Strait.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=20312

In 2001, President Bush made a bold and principled decision to offer Taiwan a range of military equipment for its security. In 2008, as he prepares to leave office, the president seems to have reneged on that commitment.

On Wednesday, Adm. Timothy Keating, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command, confirmed that the administration has frozen arms sales to the island nation, acknowledging Beijing’s displeasure by way of explanation. “The Chinese have made clear to me their concern over any arms sales to Taiwan,” he said at a Heritage Foundation forum in Washington. However, the decision to freeze arms sales is mistaken and dangerous.

The Bush administration now appears unwilling to follow through on its side of the bargain.

So tell us all Ludahai. How pro-Taiwan was Bush? Seems to me like your personal bias is showing. You have Bush wanting to appease China and not really caring about your renegade state in doing so because let's face it pal, Taiwan's democracy is nowhere near as important as the support of China on more pressing issues like North Korea's nuclear weapons. So please ludahai, oh great expert on Asian politics, explain to us how Bush cared about Chinese Taipei's people and Obama doesn't even though the official American policy on your island has not changed. Explain it, I'm curious to see how your partisanship on this can be exposed.

 

[ludahai]

So tell us all Ludahai. How pro-Taiwan was Bush? Seems to me like your personal bias is showing. You have Bush wanting to appease China and not really caring about your renegade state in doing so because let's face it pal, Taiwan's democracy is nowhere near as important as the support of China on more pressing issues like North Korea's nuclear weapons. So please ludahai, oh great expert on Asian politics, explain to us how Bush cared about Chinese Taipei's people and Obama doesn't even though the official American policy on your island has not changed. Explain it, I'm curious to see how your partisanship on this can be exposed.

I have been HIGHLY critical of Bush on Taiwan policy, but this isn't about President Bush, who APPROVED arms sales and pressed on behalf of Taiwan's participation in various international organizations. This is about President Obama who is NOT expected to approve some of the most important arms and is NOT moving forward on FTA, TIFA, and visa-free entry, and has NOT fulfilled his campaign promises to develop closer relations with democratic Taiwan and take a harder line against authoritarian China.

And your use of "Chinese Taipei" in this forum definately shows YOUR bias against the people of Taiwan. Taipei is a city and a county ... I don't live in it. Also, most people of Taiwan regard them as Taiwanese, NOT Chinese.

 

[ludahai]

link

The Bush administration notified Congress Oct. 3 that it plans to sell more than $6.4 billion in military equipment to Taiwan, triggering sharp criticism from China, which believes that the move would violate bilateral assurances made by Washington to decrease arms transfers to Taiwan.

According to the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency, the bulk of the planned U.S. sale would include 330 Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) missiles and 30 Apache Longbow attack helicopters, as well as 182 Javelin guided anti-tank missiles, 32 submarine-launched Harpoon missiles, spare parts for F-16s and other fighter aircraft, and upgrades for four E-2T Hawkeye 2000 early-warning aircraft. The proposed package does not include new F-16 fighter jets or submarines, about which Beijing has been particularly concerned.

Again, not everything Taiwan wanted, but more than apparently Obama is going to offer. Furthermore, I am still waiting for Obama to give the Taiwanese its diplomatic support to meaningful participation in international organizations that the Bush administration did.

 

[DarkWizard12]

You article does not suggest this. Only your opinion. Until you have something more than opinion to provide. I'll see you in the :spin: section.

But just how pro-Taiwan was Bush? Oh I know :

FOXNews.com - Bush Opposes Taiwan Independence - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum



President Bush's Taiwan Policy: Immoral and Dangerous | Ted Galen Carpenter | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary



Bush Should Keep His Word on Taiwan - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace



So tell us all Ludahai. How pro-Taiwan was Bush? Seems to me like your personal bias is showing. You have Bush wanting to appease China and not really caring about your renegade state in doing so because let's face it pal, Taiwan's democracy is nowhere near as important as the support of China on more pressing issues like North Korea's nuclear weapons. So please ludahai, oh great expert on Asian politics, explain to us how Bush cared about Chinese Taipei's people and Obama doesn't even though the official American policy on your island has not changed. Explain it, I'm curious to see how your partisanship on this can be exposed.

thats just sick, how much longer do we have to bully taiwan untill they cease to be pro-US?

Really, we are appeasing authoritarian regimes, apologizing to Muslims and Europeans in hopes that someday they will actually like us, and yet, we are giving the finger to the few countries that actually do like us? And in asia, where they are needed the most?

Where does this foreign policy begin to make sense? How long does has this been going on?

 

[Hatuey]

I have been HIGHLY critical of Bush on Taiwan policy, but this isn't about President Bush, who APPROVED arms sales and pressed on behalf of Taiwan's participation in various international organizations. This is about President Obama who is NOT expected to approve some of the most important arms and is NOT moving forward on FTA, TIFA, and visa-free entry, and has NOT fulfilled his campaign promises to develop closer relations with democratic Taiwan and take a harder line against authoritarian China.

Are you still trying this? No that is not what you said. You stated that Bush was far more 'Pro-Taiwan' than Obama. This is clearly untrue as U.S. policy has remained the same and in accordance with the Reagan signed JC on reducing arm sales to Taiwan. Selling arms to a country does not provide any evidence that a country's leader supports the people of another country. That is simply business. Opposition to a country's independence to appease another country? That sounds to me like being as pro-Taiwan as China.

And your use of "Chinese Taipei" in this forum definately shows YOUR bias against the people of Taiwan. Taipei is a city and a county ... I don't live in it. Also, most people of Taiwan regard them as Taiwanese, NOT Chinese.

Bit sensitive aren't we? I think from now on I will call Taiwan - Chinese Taipei.

 

[Hatuey]

link

Again, not everything Taiwan wanted, but more than apparently Obama is going to offer. Furthermore, I am still waiting for Obama to give the Taiwanese its diplomatic support to meaningful participation in international organizations that the Bush administration did.

This diplomatic support for participation in international participations has already shown to be completely untrue. Why do you persist?