Trump's war on immigrants is "made for TV"

[trumptman]

You framed historical activism as destructive, and I called that revisionism out. If you'd like to reframe your argument with less rhetoric, it might provide avenues to respond. What were you referring to as the "slaves and peasant class" and the need to give up on "slavery, racism and insurrection" in your post?

Nope. I didn't. Please keep mind reading though.

Reframing is exactly what you want to do to a strawman argument.

No thanks.

 

[j brown's body]

It's made for TV. You mean people who are not news organizations are broadcasting the truth to the world at large?

It's not the fault of Trump that Demcrats call for CIVIL WAR everytime someone wants to remove their slaves and peasant class.

Each time it has happened they've undermined the Federal Government to keep their disproportionate representation and power.

They could just give up on slavery, racism and insurrection but they can't so each time they start burning down cities we have to take note of it.

His "truth" is a dystopian fantasy that has no connection to the real world. Thats why he has to set the stage and invite his media for its performance.

He is attempting to provoke violence through his sadistic cruelty so he can turn the screws of repression a little tighter.

 

[Xilnik]

Nope. I didn't. Please keep mind reading though.

Reframing is exactly what you want to do to a strawman argument.

No thanks.

Sorry, my crystal ball is in the shop, and you didn't make your arguments clear. It seems you're not interested in doing so now, so I'll leave you to it.

 

[BirdinHand]

Sorry, my crystal ball is in the shop, and you didn't make your arguments clear. It seems you're not interested in doing so now, so I'll leave you to it.

There’s never any actual argument with that one - just ridiculousness.

 

[trumptman]

Sorry, my crystal ball is in the shop, and you didn't make your arguments clear. It seems you're not interested in doing so now, so I'll leave you to it.

They're clear but what is also clear is your desire to shift, reframe and strawman them since you can't address and counter them.

No thanks to you on your attempt to do that.

You are welcome to stop. It's not effective and it won't work.

 

[trumptman]

His "truth" is a dystopian fantasy that has no connection to the real world. Thats why he has to set the stage and invite his media for its performance.

He is attempting to provoke violence through his sadistic cruelty so he can turn the screws of repression a little tighter.

Look it's more PEACE according to Democrats.

It's all so so so peaceful.

 

[j brown's body]

Considering that you are not distinguishing legal immigrants from illegal immigrants, your op is intellectually dishonest.

ICE not only grabs people who are following the rules, he creates more illegal immigrants by stripping people of their legal status.

 

[j brown's body]

Look it's more PEACE according to Democrats.

It's all so so so peaceful.

They feed you that, but not this. You're being played.

 

[trumptman]

It's not a real riot.

It just plays one on television.

 

[j brown's body]

It's not a real riot.

It just plays one on television.

They show you that, but not this.

 

[MAGAnificent]

ICE not only grabs people who are following the rules, he creates more illegal immigrants by stripping people of their legal status.

You are making absolutely no sense.

 

[trumptman]

They show you that, but not this.

No the media shows us ONLY that bit of stage craft. That is why they demand "fact checkers" remove all non-approved "news" from any source they don't control claiming it is "misinformation."

"They" are the actual media. The "not this" are the corporate propaganda media who will show up and film that little psy-op for 15 minutes and then loop it for days.

 

[j brown's body]

No the media shows us ONLY that bit of stage craft. That is why they demand "fact checkers" remove all non-approved "news" from any source they don't control claiming it is "misinformation."

"They" are the actual media. The "not this" are the corporate propaganda media who will show up and film that little psy-op for 15 minutes and then loop it for days.

The stage craft began with ICE and then the Guard bring sent into LA. Dr.nPhil brings tge production values.

The protest rally is remarkably spontaneous.

Either way, it shows us the violence is isolated with massive numbers of people being peaceful.

It must be a great disappointment to you.

 

[trumptman]

Karen Bass saying that all this is driven by ICE doing their jobs. She admits the only way it will stop is for ICE to not do their job.

 

[j brown's body]

Karen Bass saying that all this is driven by ICE doing their jobs. She admits the only way it will stop is for ICE to not do their job.

Yeah, they don't want ICE in their town.

That's why Trump sent them.

Actually, most towns don't.

They rely on undocumented immigrants.

But what milage is Trump going to get out of video of resistance from a red state?

 

[Xilnik]

They're clear but what is also clear is your desire to shift, reframe and strawman them since you can't address and counter them.

No thanks to you on your attempt to do that.

You are welcome to stop. It's not effective and it won't work.

What I've gathered so far is you believe slavery still exists, but Democrats should give up on it, racism, and insurrection attempts because you're tired of them calling for civil wars.

I'd love to address those points as I understand them:

1. The Claim That Slavery Still Exists

Slavery, as historically practiced in the United States, was abolished with the 13th Amendment in 1865. If the argument is that undocumented immigrants are exploited under poor working conditions, that is a separate issue that applies across many industries regardless of political affiliation.

2. Racism as a Political Tool

The idea that Democrats use racism as a tool to maintain control is vague and unsupported. Racism has been a systemic issue across American history, affecting both parties at different times. To claim that one party singularly promotes or benefits from racism ignores historical shifts in political alignment, such as the Southern Strategy, which saw a realignment of racial politics in the U.S.

3. The Civil War and Insurrection Claims

A link was provided to the American Civil War as supposed evidence that Democrats have a history of calling for conflict to maintain their power. The Confederacy seceded to preserve slavery, not because Democrats of today have some ideological continuity with those in the 1860s.

4. Framing Protesters as Violent Mobs

There is a common tactic of painting all protesters as violent when discussing issues like immigration enforcement and police interactions. While some individuals engage in illegal activities during demonstrations, widespread protests often include peaceful participants advocating for policy changes.

Additionally, labeling modern protests as insurrection conflates legitimate demonstrations with actual rebellion. The United States was founded on protests, such as the Boston Tea Party, and to dismiss all modern activism as violent insurrection ignores peaceful movements that have led to societal advancements.

 

[trumptman]

What I've gathered so far is you believe slavery still exists, but Democrats should give up on it, racism, and insurrection attempts because you're tired of them calling for civil wars.

I'd love to address those points as I understand them:

Good luck.

1. The Claim That Slavery Still Exists

Slavery, as historically practiced in the United States, was abolished with the 13th Amendment in 1865. If the argument is that undocumented immigrants are exploited under poor working conditions, that is a separate issue that applies across many industries regardless of political affiliation.

You note the point above and then literally move on to the point you know was actually being made. However it is clear it isn't a matter that is regardless of political affiliation since one party is claiming illegal immigration doesn't exist while demanding a path to legalization and the other is simply trying to engage in border enforcement.

2. Racism as a Political Tool

The idea that Democrats use racism as a tool to maintain control is vague and unsupported. Racism has been a systemic issue across American history, affecting both parties at different times. To claim that one party singularly promotes or benefits from racism ignores historical shifts in political alignment, such as the Southern Strategy, which saw a realignment of racial politics in the U.S.

The myth of Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’

The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had more to do with the South becoming Republican than anything related to race.

thehill.com

As noted the claimed Southern Strategy literally relies on gatekeeping and mindreading.

Democrats are the party of the KKK and the Civil War. Much like how Communism was relabeled so was their racism.

3. The Civil War and Insurrection Claims

A link was provided to the American Civil War as supposed evidence that Democrats have a history of calling for conflict to maintain their power. The Confederacy seceded to preserve slavery, not because Democrats of today have some ideological continuity with those in the 1860s.

I'm not going to be someone's illegal immigrant search engine. If they don't believe the claim they can work to disprove it.

4. Framing Protesters as Violent Mobs

There is a common tactic of painting all protesters as violent when discussing issues like immigration enforcement and police interactions. While some individuals engage in illegal activities during demonstrations, widespread protests often include peaceful participants advocating for policy changes.

Additionally, labeling modern protests as insurrection conflates legitimate demonstrations with actual rebellion. The United States was founded on protests, such as the Boston Tea Party, and to dismiss all modern activism as violent insurrection ignores peaceful movements that have led to societal advancements.

It's not framing. There is plenty of primary source material proving this is happening.

In this case the parties are literally trying to prevent the Federal Government from engaging in it's job and harboring and protecting foreign nationals.

 

[trumptman]

Yeah, they don't want ICE in their town.

That's why Trump sent them.

Actually, most towns don't.

They rely on undocumented immigrants.

But what milage is Trump going to get out of video of resistance from a red state?

They aren't above the law. They don't get to pick and choose which laws they want to follow.

 

[j brown's body]

They aren't above the law. They don't get to pick and choose which laws they want to follow.

Lol, the man sending them is a criminal. ICE is, technically, above the law.

100s of laws are broken everyday. We probably break a couple ourselves.

Why use valuable resource upholding the law in Trump's sadistically cruel game against decent people when it could be used against malicious law breakers who seek to do us harm?

Because it's about violence and power.

 

[trumptman]

Lol, the man sending them is a criminal. ICE is, technically, above the law.

100s of laws are broken everyday. We probably break a couple ourselves.

Why use valuable resource upholding the law in Trump's sadistically cruel game against decent people when it could be used against malicious law breakers who seek to do us harm?

Because it's about violence and power.

"Technically" Democrats think of a reason they are above the law.

"It's complicated" why they can't follow the law.

They can't FAFO.

 

[j brown's body]

"Technically" Democrats think of a reason they are above the law.

"It's complicated" why they can't follow the law.

They can't FAFO.

This makes no sense, but ok.

 

[Xilnik]

Good luck.



You note the point above and then literally move on to the point you know was actually being made. However it is clear it isn't a matter that is regardless of political affiliation since one party is claiming illegal immigration doesn't exist while demanding a path to legalization and the other is simply trying to engage in border enforcement.

The myth of Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’

The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had more to do with the South becoming Republican than anything related to race.

thehill.com

As noted the claimed Southern Strategy literally relies on gatekeeping and mindreading.

Democrats are the party of the KKK and the Civil War. Much like how Communism was relabeled so was their racism.



I'm not going to be someone's illegal immigrant search engine. If they don't believe the claim they can work to disprove it.



It's not framing. There is plenty of primary source material proving this is happening.

In this case the parties are literally trying to prevent the Federal Government from engaging in it's job and harboring and protecting foreign nationals.

Alright, clearly you're a bit confused about immigration policies and history. Let's try to clear that up.


1. The Claim That One Party Denies Illegal Immigration Exists

No major political party denies the existence of illegal immigration. The debate is over policy: how to handle undocumented immigrants, whether to provide pathways to legalization, and how enforcement should be conducted. Framing one party as denying reality while the other simply enforces the law oversimplifies a complex issue.

2. The Southern Strategy and Historical Revisionism

The linked article from The Hill argues against the existence of Nixon’s Southern Strategy. However, the Southern Strategy is widely documented by historians as a political realignment where Republicans appealed to white Southern voters disaffected by civil rights advancements. While Nixon himself may not have made explicitly racist appeals, the broader shift in party demographics is well established.

3. The Claim That Democrats Are the Party of the KKK and the Civil War

This argument ignores political realignment over time. While Democrats in the 19th century included Southern slaveholders, the party evolved significantly, particularly during the Civil Rights Movement. The modern Republican Party absorbed many Southern conservatives who opposed civil rights legislation, leading to a shift in racial politics. Equating today’s Democratic Party with its 19th-century counterpart ignores these changes.

4. The Framing of Immigration Enforcement as a Federal vs. State Conflict

The claim that Democrats are "harboring and protecting foreign nationals" suggests that opposition to certain immigration policies equates to lawlessness. However, states and cities have legal discretion in how they cooperate with federal immigration enforcement. Sanctuary policies, for example, prioritize local law enforcement resources rather than actively obstructing federal agencies.

 

[trumptman]

Alright, clearly you're a bit confused about immigration policies and history. Let's try to clear that up.


1. The Claim That One Party Denies Illegal Immigration Exists

No major political party denies the existence of illegal immigration. The debate is over policy: how to handle undocumented immigrants, whether to provide pathways to legalization, and how enforcement should be conducted. Framing one party as denying reality while the other simply enforces the law oversimplifies a complex issue.

2. The Southern Strategy and Historical Revisionism

The linked article from The Hill argues against the existence of Nixon’s Southern Strategy. However, the Southern Strategy is widely documented by historians as a political realignment where Republicans appealed to white Southern voters disaffected by civil rights advancements. While Nixon himself may not have made explicitly racist appeals, the broader shift in party demographics is well established.

3. The Claim That Democrats Are the Party of the KKK and the Civil War

This argument ignores political realignment over time. While Democrats in the 19th century included Southern slaveholders, the party evolved significantly, particularly during the Civil Rights Movement. The modern Republican Party absorbed many Southern conservatives who opposed civil rights legislation, leading to a shift in racial politics. Equating today’s Democratic Party with its 19th-century counterpart ignores these changes.

4. The Framing of Immigration Enforcement as a Federal vs. State Conflict

The claim that Democrats are "harboring and protecting foreign nationals" suggests that opposition to certain immigration policies equates to lawlessness. However, states and cities have legal discretion in how they cooperate with federal immigration enforcement. Sanctuary policies, for example, prioritize local law enforcement resources rather than actively obstructing federal agencies.

Thanks ChatGPT.

I'm here for discussion.

 

[Xilnik]

Thanks ChatGPT.

I'm here for discussion.

It doesn't seem like it. You mistakenly said one party is pretending illegal immigration doesn't exist. That has never been the case. There is bipartisan support for immigration reform, but real reform, not reform passed through executive overreach using executive orders. The way this administration is going about it is dangerous to our country, its laws, and the Constitution.

You claim the Southern Strategy is nothing more than a facade based on illusory mind reading. There is plenty of evidence through the electorate that it occurred just as similar evidence showed Dixiecrats worked against the Civil Rights Movement and the movement flipped the parties in the 1960s.

You also ignore why the current protests exist. It is not a grab for power; it is a defense against power. The current administration is overstepping at every turn in an effort to meet quotas, detaining and deporting people who are documented and have otherwise followed immigration enforcement laws despite not having legal status. Instead of focusing purely on violent criminals, they're now targeting people who benefit our economy and pay taxes.

 

[trumptman]

It doesn't seem like it. You mistakenly said one party is pretending illegal immigration doesn't exist. That has never been the case. There is bipartisan support for immigration reform, but real reform, not reform passed through executive overreach using executive orders. The way this administration is going about it is dangerous to our country, its laws, and the Constitution.

So a discussion is where we talk back and forth. It is not about you attempting to invalidate a point some imagined technicalities vs an actual counterpoint.

You claim the Southern Strategy is nothing more than a facade based on illusory mind reading. There is plenty of evidence through the electorate that it occurred just as similar evidence showed Dixiecrats worked against the Civil Rights Movement and the movement flipped the parties in the 1960s.

You also ignore why the current protests exist. It is not a grab for power; it is a defense against power. The current administration is overstepping at every turn in an effort to meet quotas, detaining and deporting people who are documented and have otherwise followed immigration enforcement laws despite not having legal status. Instead of focusing purely on violent criminals, they're now targeting people who benefit our economy and pay taxes.

So again to clarify, you haven't presented a counterpoint. You've typed a few prompts into ChatGPT and then SHAT the results here. That also isn't a discussion.

Get a counterpoint. You're not going to be correct in a vacuum.