• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Trump's best speech - Key details to our future

274ina

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,415
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A55goJJKYE

Here are the sections Trump Mentions, 1 st parts of them.

Trade act of 1962
SEC. 232. SAFEGUARDING NATIONAL SECURITY. (a) No action shall be taken pursuant to section 201 (a) or pursuant to section 350 of the Tariff Act of 1930 to decrease or eliminate the duty or other import restriction on any article if the President determines that such reduction or elimination would threaten to impair the national security. (

1974 Trade act
SEC. 301. ACTIONS BY UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVE. (a) MANDATORY ACTION.— (1) If the United States Trade Representative determines under section 304(a)(1) that— (A) the rights of the United States under any trade agreement are being denied; or (B) an act, policy, or practice of a foreign country— (i) violates, or is inconsistent with, the provisions of, or otherwise denies benefits to the United States under, any trade agreement, or (ii) is unjustifiable and burdens or restricts United States commerce; the Trade Representative shall take action authorized in subsection (c), subject to the specific direction, if any, of the President regarding any such action, and shall take all other appropriate and feasible action within the power of the President that the President may direct the Trade Representative to take under this subsection, to enforce such rights or to obtain the elimination of such act, policy, or practice.


SEC. 201. ACTION TO FACILITATE POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION. (a) PRESIDENTIAL ACTION.—If the United States International Trade Commission (hereinafter referred to in this chapter as the ‘‘Commission’’) determines under section 202(b) that an article is being imported into the United States in such increased quantities as to be a substantial cause of serious injury, or the threat thereof, to the domestic industry producing an article like or directly competitive with the imported article, the President, in accordance with this chapter, shall take all appropriate and feasible action within his power which the President determines will facilitate efforts by the domestic industry to make a positive adjustment to import competition and provide greater economic and social benefits than costs. (b) POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION.— (1) For purposes of this chapter, a positive adjustment to import competition occurs when— (A) the domestic industry— (i) is able to compete successfully with imports after actions taken under section 204 terminate, or (ii) the domestic industry experiences an orderly transfer of resources to other productive pursuits; and (B) dislocated workers in the industry experience an orderly transition to productive pursuits.


Do you see any "orderly transition"?

101026_nickelsville.jpg
 

yankintx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
19,436
Reaction score
8,668
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A55goJJKYE

Here are the sections Trump Mentions, 1 st parts of them.

Trade act of 1962
SEC. 232. SAFEGUARDING NATIONAL SECURITY. (a) No action shall be taken pursuant to section 201 (a) or pursuant to section 350 of the Tariff Act of 1930 to decrease or eliminate the duty or other import restriction on any article if the President determines that such reduction or elimination would threaten to impair the national security. (

1974 Trade act
SEC. 301. ACTIONS BY UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVE. (a) MANDATORY ACTION.— (1) If the United States Trade Representative determines under section 304(a)(1) that— (A) the rights of the United States under any trade agreement are being denied; or (B) an act, policy, or practice of a foreign country— (i) violates, or is inconsistent with, the provisions of, or otherwise denies benefits to the United States under, any trade agreement, or (ii) is unjustifiable and burdens or restricts United States commerce; the Trade Representative shall take action authorized in subsection (c), subject to the specific direction, if any, of the President regarding any such action, and shall take all other appropriate and feasible action within the power of the President that the President may direct the Trade Representative to take under this subsection, to enforce such rights or to obtain the elimination of such act, policy, or practice.


SEC. 201. ACTION TO FACILITATE POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION. (a) PRESIDENTIAL ACTION.—If the United States International Trade Commission (hereinafter referred to in this chapter as the ‘‘Commission’’) determines under section 202(b) that an article is being imported into the United States in such increased quantities as to be a substantial cause of serious injury, or the threat thereof, to the domestic industry producing an article like or directly competitive with the imported article, the President, in accordance with this chapter, shall take all appropriate and feasible action within his power which the President determines will facilitate efforts by the domestic industry to make a positive adjustment to import competition and provide greater economic and social benefits than costs. (b) POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION.— (1) For purposes of this chapter, a positive adjustment to import competition occurs when— (A) the domestic industry— (i) is able to compete successfully with imports after actions taken under section 204 terminate, or (ii) the domestic industry experiences an orderly transfer of resources to other productive pursuits; and (B) dislocated workers in the industry experience an orderly transition to productive pursuits.


Do you see any "orderly transition"?

View attachment 67203722

Those manufacturing jobs are long gone. You know, they went to the same place Don gets his ties made. Walk the walk, talk the talk. Don needs to clean his own house first.
 

274ina

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,415
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Don works in the trade envioroment that currently exists.

And NEVER has the USA wanted clothing jobs.

Cotton YES
Spinning YES......not making cloths.
 

yankintx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
19,436
Reaction score
8,668
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Don works in the trade envioroment that currently exists.

And NEVER has the USA wanted clothing jobs.

Cotton YES
Spinning YES......not making cloths.

Good point, but most of America is not that informed. What they do is the Don has much of his branded merchandise made overseas. Its all about perception, sometimes its not fair, but thats politics.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
59,865
Reaction score
46,650
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Good point, but most of America is not that informed. What they do is the Don has much of his branded merchandise made overseas. Its all about perception, sometimes its not fair, but thats politics.
But regardless, you are right in your earlier assessment:

"Those jobs are long gone"

We can bend market forces a bit with public policy, but we can't stem the overwhelming tide! :doh

(regardless of the B.S. one Mr. trump decides to fling at prospective voters)
 
Last edited:

yankintx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
19,436
Reaction score
8,668
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
But regardless, you are right in your earlier assessment:

"Those jobs are long gone"

We can bend market forces a bit with public policy, but we can't stem the overwhelming tide! :doh

(regardless of the B.S. one Mr. trump decides to fling at prospective voters)

And that is what the Don is selling, the return of those jobs, not happening. Every canidate since RR has promised there own version of the Dons tag line, did not happen. What makes his supporters believe he can do better?

Trump says one thing and does another, i will pass on the orange one and his empty promises.
 

SailaWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
3,771
Reaction score
145
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
And that is what the Don is selling, the return of those jobs, not happening. Every canidate since RR has promised there own version of the Dons tag line, did not happen. What makes his supporters believe he can do better?

Trump says one thing and does another, i will pass on the orange one and his empty promises.

Those jobs will come back one way or the other.. maybe when 30 conservative states secedes.....a nation NEEDS all types of jobs in order to progress correctly..... example is all abilities are needed to build a bridge.. and this grows a strong middle class which is less costly because of less crime and welfare a wisdom test for voters will understand and make laws to bring the jobs back
 

reinoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
16,824
Reaction score
7,183
Location
Out West
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
But regardless, you are right in your earlier assessment:

"Those jobs are long gone"

We can bend market forces a bit with public policy, but we can't stem the overwhelming tide! :doh

(regardless of the B.S. one Mr. trump decides to fling at prospective voters)
Hold on a second. The reason manufacturing jobs went overseas in the first place is because of Trade deals that gave INCENTIVES to ship jobs overseas. It wasn't free market forces. If we removed those incentives then the "cost increases" that the big corporations whine about would be due to moving the manufacturing base from overseas back into this country. Those increases were negated by unfair trade deals that moved the jobs overseas in the first place.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A55goJJKYE

Here are the sections Trump Mentions, 1 st parts of them.

Trade act of 1962
SEC. 232. SAFEGUARDING NATIONAL SECURITY. (a) No action shall be taken pursuant to section 201 (a) or pursuant to section 350 of the Tariff Act of 1930 to decrease or eliminate the duty or other import restriction on any article if the President determines that such reduction or elimination would threaten to impair the national security. (

1974 Trade act
SEC. 301. ACTIONS BY UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVE. (a) MANDATORY ACTION.— (1) If the United States Trade Representative determines under section 304(a)(1) that— (A) the rights of the United States under any trade agreement are being denied; or (B) an act, policy, or practice of a foreign country— (i) violates, or is inconsistent with, the provisions of, or otherwise denies benefits to the United States under, any trade agreement, or (ii) is unjustifiable and burdens or restricts United States commerce; the Trade Representative shall take action authorized in subsection (c), subject to the specific direction, if any, of the President regarding any such action, and shall take all other appropriate and feasible action within the power of the President that the President may direct the Trade Representative to take under this subsection, to enforce such rights or to obtain the elimination of such act, policy, or practice.


SEC. 201. ACTION TO FACILITATE POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION. (a) PRESIDENTIAL ACTION.—If the United States International Trade Commission (hereinafter referred to in this chapter as the ‘‘Commission’’) determines under section 202(b) that an article is being imported into the United States in such increased quantities as to be a substantial cause of serious injury, or the threat thereof, to the domestic industry producing an article like or directly competitive with the imported article, the President, in accordance with this chapter, shall take all appropriate and feasible action within his power which the President determines will facilitate efforts by the domestic industry to make a positive adjustment to import competition and provide greater economic and social benefits than costs. (b) POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT TO IMPORT COMPETITION.— (1) For purposes of this chapter, a positive adjustment to import competition occurs when— (A) the domestic industry— (i) is able to compete successfully with imports after actions taken under section 204 terminate, or (ii) the domestic industry experiences an orderly transfer of resources to other productive pursuits; and (B) dislocated workers in the industry experience an orderly transition to productive pursuits.


Do you see any "orderly transition"?

View attachment 67203722

Trump is a horrible speaker. On the other hand, Bill Clinton had pretty good oral skills.......... Oops. I just went and did it. I mentioned Bill Clinton and "oral" in the same sentence. :mrgreen:
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
59,865
Reaction score
46,650
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Hold on a second. The reason manufacturing jobs went overseas in the first place is because of Trade deals that gave INCENTIVES to ship jobs overseas. It wasn't free market forces. If we removed those incentives then the "cost increases" that the big corporations whine about would be due to moving the manufacturing base from overseas back into this country. Those increases were negated by unfair trade deals that moved the jobs overseas in the first place.
No Reinoe, free trade is what happens when those agreements go into place. They remove tariffs and other trade obstacles. That's why the jobs left; they followed free-market principles and went to the lowest cost producers!

The deal is this: You can enact tariffs and trade constraints and bend free-market forces a little, but only so far. You're not going to stop globalization without extraordinarily marginalizing endeavors (ex: Castro's Cuba).
 

Lafayette

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
7,968
Reaction score
1,620
Location
France
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Hold on a second. The reason manufacturing jobs went overseas in the first place is because of Trade deals that gave INCENTIVES to ship jobs overseas. It wasn't free market forces.

And where were you in 1991 when the Bamboo Curtain came crashing down and the China Price invaded World Markets. In a cave?

China over the the past quarter-century since has hollowed out all the low labor-cost jobs, like banging out pots 'n pans, etc., etc., etc. In fact, those Chinese who were in the low-cost goods manufacturing sector, with companies that don't even belong to them since there is no notion of private-property in China, have become overnight millionaires - and many are buying high-priced houses on the West Coast of Canada and the US so that their kids can go to school there.

Stop with the "poor me, poor me, poor me - it's all somebody else's fault" because that is factually incorrect. GATT and TPS and any other trade agreements have created jobs in America. Just look at companies like Boeing, GE, Deere, IBM, etc., etc., etc. - the list is very, very long.

It's a noted historical fact that the US in the 19th century did exactly the same by hollowing-out Britain's knitted-goods industry. Go anywhere in New England to see the factories that were built - with the advantage of getting their base material (cotton) directly from the southern states at lower cost. Ditto later in the beginning of the Industrial Age when the US competed very well with Europe in machine equipment.

Most all human activity is cyclic, which is why we must move with the times. Nobody owes Uncle Sam a living ...
__________________________
 
Last edited:

Lafayette

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
7,968
Reaction score
1,620
Location
France
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Do you see any "orderly transition"?

The orderly transition consists very simply of this: The American Consumer (all 300 million of them) preferred cheaper goods imported from overseas. And American companies could not lower their costs to meet the competition.

So, retailers, in order to keep selling to American consumers started buying large volumes of goods the American consumer wanted to buy. Do you understand that formula?

Were the US to start implementing Import Duties, so its manufacturers of pots-'n-pans or other low-tech goods could compete, then countries would retaliate on American goods - like higher-priced farm-equipment from Deere or computers from IBM. Had that happened, then even higher-skilled, well-paying jobs would have been lost in America. (Which has occurred as well in some high-tech industries.)

Which is what happens when countries stupidly get into Trade Wars simply to protect internal markets from external competition.

A far better solution is for the US to upgrade the skills/competencies of its workers. Which means what?

It means the higher-skilled workers will have better jobs in industries that compete well both at home and on international markets. And the lower-skilled workers will migrate to low-cost service-industries jobs. Like flipping hamburgers at Macdonalds.

Do you like that outcome for fellow Americans? I don't, which is why these unskilled people - instead of flipping hamburgers - should have the same opportunity to retrain themselves into better paying work. And that cannot be done in a country where postsecondary schooling is so damn expensive.

Half the kids in postsecondary schooling today graduate with a more than $30K debt to repay! (See here.) So, you can imagine why the very poorest don't even try. (Hillary's offer for subsidized postsecondary schooling is a godsend to them! See here.)

Furthermore, look there as well for the reason that so many Americans are in jail because "keeping up with the Joneses" enticed them into unlawful activities. The highest percentage of any developed country on earth - which is not an achievement of which we can be proud ...
___________________
 
Last edited:

274ina

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,415
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other


The orderly transition consists very simply of this: The American Consumer (all 300 million of them) preferred cheaper goods imported from overseas. And American companies could not lower their costs to meet the competition.

So, retailers, in order to keep selling to American consumers started buying large volumes of goods the American consumer wanted to buy. Do you understand that formula?

Were the US to start implementing Import Duties, so its manufacturers of pots-'n-pans or other low-tech goods could compete, then countries would retaliate on American goods - like higher-priced farm-equipment from Deere or computers from IBM. Had that happened, then even higher-skilled, well-paying jobs would have been lost in America. (Which has occurred as well in some high-tech industries.)

Which is what happens when countries stupidly get into Trade Wars simply to protect internal markets from external competition.

A far better solution is for the US to upgrade the skills/competencies of its workers. Which means what?

It means the higher-skilled workers will have better jobs in industries that compete well both at home and on international markets. And the lower-skilled workers will migrate to low-cost service-industries jobs. Like flipping hamburgers at Macdonalds.

Do you like that outcome for fellow Americans? I don't, which is why these unskilled people - instead of flipping hamburgers - should have the same opportunity to retrain themselves into better paying work. And that cannot be done in a country where postsecondary schooling is so damn expensive.

Half the kids in postsecondary schooling today graduate with a more than $30K debt to repay! (See here.) So, you can imagine why the very poorest don't even try. (Hillary's offer for subsidized postsecondary schooling is a godsend to them! See here.)

Furthermore, look there as well for the reason that so many Americans are in jail because "keeping up with the Joneses" enticed them into unlawful activities. The highest percentage of any developed country on earth - which is not an achievement of which we can be proud ...
___________________


Education is a lie and has no future in USA for this simple economic fact.

The Chinaman PHd, is STILL CHEAPER than any US Citizen, and they graduate millions every year.
 

Lafayette

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
7,968
Reaction score
1,620
Location
France
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Education is a lie and has no future in USA for this simple economic fact.

The Chinaman PHd, is STILL CHEAPER than any US Citizen, and they graduate millions every year.

As a market-economy, our Services Sector is already constitutes around 70% of GDP. The other thirty-percent are manufacturing jobs that suffer from the advances of robotic-production. Btw, that has been happening to Detroit for at least 30-years - which is why it restructured and sent a great deal of manufacturing southward in the US, wwere salaries are lower*.

New England is an historical lesson. In the 1970s/1980s a once robust plastics industry died. The jobs went south, then to Mexico and finally to China. And, when you look at the plants that produced plastic-products, many were left-over from the 19th century when they were used for textile-production. The changes in job-structures are inevitable, and we have to recognize that Law of Economic Evolution.

So, if you want to complain about hollowing out jobs in the Great Lakes Area, then blame Kentucky, North 'n South Carolina, etc., etc. etc. We did much, not all, by ourselves.

There is a viable alternative nationally. The cost of a Postsecondary Education (Vocational, 2- & 4-year) by which our children (and unemployed) can obtain the credentials for higher paying Services Jobs is scandalous. The Hillary 'n Bernie proposition for postsecondary educational costs to be subsidized is a Great Idea! - and long overdue.

American kids are leaving university with an average $50K debt to repay, which is why far too many do not even bother to go. Their alternative is low-paying jobs, which is why we have a 15% of the population living below the Poverty Threshold.

That's close to 50 million men, women and children - or the states of California and Illinois combined.

Ask the Dunderhead what he plans for those people ...
_________________
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom