Trump will be impeached, he will not be convicted!

[independentusa]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

 

[jnug]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

Too hasty a judgement in my view. Nixon's popularity with his supporters remained high all the way up until the day it didn't. The base is not that important in this case.

Dean's testimony didn't move the Nixon supporters. Mitchell's utter corruption didn't move them, the RNC's utter corruption didn't move them. The tapes moved them and that was that.

Impeachment approval does not move in a serial fashion. It moves in chunks of numbers....4-5 points at a time which is a huge number these days. None of us, not DonDon, not the pollsters none of us will know until the very day. It will look impossible one day and eminently possible the next. Trump's actual base is not 40+%. Its more like 28-30%.

 

[Moderate Right]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

The biggest trouble I have with the whole thing is that Democrats have abused their power to get Trump with Hillary & Co digging up dirt on Trump through foreign means and Democrats don't seem to care about that at all. There is a "clean hands" doctrine which basically states that if your hands are not clean then it makes it a lot harder to win a case against someone else who you claim doesn't have clean hands. Democrats don't have clean hands and yet they want to oust a legitimately elected president for doing the very same things they have done. I don't want to hear any more from Democrats about Trump abusing his power while they abuse their power every day and try to claim it as "oversight". The Republican House impeached Bill Clinton for obvious crimes but the Democratic Senate voted not to remove Clinton from power so turnabout is fair play. If you are going to claim the moral high ground then you should have clean hands.

 

[trouble13]

Trump wont be impeached.
Its all bark and no bite in hopes of damaging his popularity with 2020 voters

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[independentusa]

The biggest trouble I have with the whole thing is that Democrats have abused their power to get Trump with Hillary & Co digging up dirt on Trump through foreign means and Democrats don't seem to care about that at all. There is a "clean hands" doctrine which basically states that if your hands are not clean then it makes it a lot harder to win a case against someone else who you claim doesn't have clean hands. Democrats don't have clean hands and yet they want to oust a legitimately elected president for doing the very same things they have done. I don't want to hear any more from Democrats about Trump abusing his power while they abuse their power every day and try to claim it as "oversight". The Republican House impeached Bill Clinton for obvious crimes but the Democratic Senate voted not to remove Clinton from power so turnabout is fair play. If you are going to claim the moral high ground then you should have clean hands.

I am claiming no high ground. TO go back to Clinton is certainly a deflection, but if we forget the past we make the same mistakes in the future. Just so you know, I thought that Clinton should have resigned. Not to do so set a bad example for the future presidents. And in truth it was the five GOpers who voted not to convict Clinton that turned the tide. We will see if any Gopers vote to convict Trump. A big difference in the two president's actions was the Clinton's lies were personal in nature and did not effect the nation. Trump's actions involved violating a law that controls our elections and also our relation with our allies.

 

[Perotista]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

I agree that at sometime in the near future the House will pass articles of impeachment. The senate will fail to convict as it takes 67 senators. I'm not sure that all Democratic senators will vote to convict. I can think of two that probably will vote Nay on the articles. That means a defection of 22 GOP senators to oust Trump which I don't see happening. I think you have to look at which Republican senators are up for reelection. Collins would in my opinion vote AYE, Gardner and Ernst could be two others who are up for reelection. I don't see anyone else. Murkowski who isn't could also be an AYE vote.

Unlike days of yore when quite a lot of states had a senator from each party, today most red states have two Republicans, most blue states two Democrats. Most folks in red states like Trump, most folks in blue states hate him.

RCP averages shows Trump approval rating at 43%. Pretty much where it has been since May 2018 with a swing of plus or minus a one point swing.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval

It looks like those who support Trump support him regardless of what is going on, the same with those who oppose him. Of course it usually take a week or two for the polls to catch up on the events. Especially if one is using averages without relying on a single poll.

With the senate one needs to discard the national polls, look at how Trump is viewed in the states. Trump has a 60% and 61% approval rating in Alabama and West Virginia which could make it hard for Democrats Manchin and Jones to vote for removal. Doing so may remove them, although Manchin isn't up in 2020, but Jones is.

Trump is down to 41% in Colorado which could make it difficult for Gardner not to vote for removal. Maine, Trump at 41%, Collins. Iowa, 42% Ernst is up for reelection, Grassley isn't, but there is the possibility of at least one of two. 45% in Pennsylvania, but Toomy isn't up for reelection. Murkowski doesn't like Trump, she is another possibility. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. So the evidence presented in the articles needs to be especially damning if there is a chance of removal.

 

[Drawdown]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

Technically it is "Removed" not "Convicted".

 

[ultmd]

The biggest trouble I have with the whole thing is that Democrats have abused their power to get Trump with Hillary & Co digging up dirt on Trump through foreign means and Democrats don't seem to care about that at all. There is a "clean hands" doctrine which basically states that if your hands are not clean then it makes it a lot harder to win a case against someone else who you claim doesn't have clean hands.

On, please. First, the Clean Hands Doctrine is a term of art in Patent Law, not criminal or campaign finance law.

Secondly, it's perfectly legal to use a "foreign national" to provide services in a political campaign provided that person (or entity) is paid at a fair market value rate. That, btw, is the OFFICIAL ruling handed down by the REPUBLICAN-controlled House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence...just last year (i.e. 2018).

"Under current federal election law, foreigners are prohibited from making contributions or donations in connection with any campaign in the United States. However, it is not illegal to contract with a foreign person or foreign entity for services, including conducting opposition research on a U.S. campaign, so long as the service was paid for at the market rate."

Of course, that was when Republicans were still trying to justify all of the overt efforts to seek assistance from Russia by the Trump campaign 2016. Remember, for example, the infamous Trump Tower meeting with Russians who told Trump, Jr they had "dirt" on Hillary to offer? Remember Trump's public call for help from the Russian government? But, as the Trumps...and Lindsey Graham and others have already demonstrated, I'm sure the GOP'ers have all forgotten about that. :roll:

Thirdly, let's not rewrite history. The FACT is that the company that hired Christopher Steele to do "oppo" research on Trump was actually hired by REPUBLICANS affiliated with the right wing Washington Free Beacon newspaper. Fusion GPS then later offered their services to the Clinton campaign after Trump became the defacto winner of the GOP primary contest.

Democrats don't have clean hands and yet they want to oust a legitimately elected president for doing the very same things they have done.

This is just silly, and you ought to know it. What does Trump's legitimacy (or lack thereof) have to do with ANYTHING? Read the Constitution. Democrats are conducting LEGITIMATE investigations of this president. The impeachment process is the LEGITIMATE way to address a president (or any other federal official) whose conduct in office is deemed inappropriate, illegal or unethical. Republicans like you need to stop whining. The Constitution that "legitimized" the electoral victory of Trump in 2016 is the SAME Constitution that dictates impeachment hearings for a president suspected of criminal, unethical and disgraceful conduct...such as this president.

I don't want to hear any more from Democrats about Trump abusing his power while they abuse their power every day and try to claim it as "oversight".

What brainwashed Trump acolytes may want to hear is really irrelevant. You're going to continue to hear Democrats talking about Trump's criminal behavior and abuses of power. You and I both know you cannot make the case that Democrats are abusing power, at all. Come on, now. Somehow, I am almost certain that you had no problem accepting SEVEN (or eight?, I lost count) separate Republican Benghazi-related investigations (all of which produced NO indictments or credible allegations of criminal wrongdoing)...as appropriate "oversight". Amirite about that?:roll:

The Republican House impeached Bill Clinton for obvious crimes but the Democratic Senate voted not to remove Clinton from power so turnabout is fair play. If you are going to claim the moral high ground then you should have clean hands.

Yes, of course, you are right. That's why ALL of the leading congressional Republicans who lead the charge against Bill Clinton's "immorality" and "unfitness" for public office, etc........had "clean hands", right? Let's see...how many GOP'ers in congress can I recall who lead the Clinton impeachment fiasco....who were ALSO lying, adulterous scum-bags at that time?

• --Rep. Bob Barr
• --Rep. Bob Livingston
• --Speaker Newt Gingrich
• --Rep. Henry Hyde
• --Rep. Dan Burton
• --Sen. Pete Domineci
• --Sen. Bob Packwood
• --Rep.Gary Condit
• --Rep. Steve LaTourette
• --Sen. David Vitter

:lamo
Yeah, that's right....you Republicans really do have a LONG history of adhering to the principle of "if you're going to claim high moral grounds, you have to have clean hands"!

It's hard to believe you're serious. And yet, I know you are.
:roll:

 

[ultmd]

Bottom line for our Republican/Trumpian friends in this thread:

The hypocrisy of Republicans today is just astounding. I'm sorry, but anyone....ANYONE...who believed that Bill Clinton deserved impeachment for lying about adultery, and not believes that Donald Trump does NOT deserve impeachment today....is either a fool, a liar or just a hopelessly blind ideologue.

The question for each of them, therefore, is....which one are you?

 

[Hypothetical]

the only hope they have of impeachment is public opinion to reach critical mass in the FOR category. They need to be getting some better evidence for that to happen.

 

[Hypothetical]

Bottom line for our Republican/Trumpian friends in this thread:

The hypocrisy of Republicans today is just astounding. I'm sorry, but anyone....ANYONE...who believed that Bill Clinton deserved impeachment for lying about adultery, and not believes that Donald Trump does NOT deserve impeachment today....is either a fool, a liar or just a hopelessly blind ideologue.

The question for each of them, therefore, is....which one are you?

prove quid pro quo and you might have something.

Bill Clinton committed perjury. plus that needed an investigation, there were indiscrepancies with an underling. he could have been manipulating her to have sex with him using his power.

 

[independentusa]

Technically it is "Removed" not "Convicted".

From what I understand they first vote on conviction and then removal. Separate actions. Someone on this Message board said they also vote on whether to allow the convicted to run for public office in the future.

 

[independentusa]

the only hope they have of impeachment is public opinion to reach critical mass in the FOR category. They need to be getting some better evidence for that to happen.

I think impeachment is already in the bag. It is conviction in the Senate that will be controlled by the public.

 

[ultmd]

the only hope they have of impeachment is public opinion to reach critical mass in the FOR category. They need to be getting some better evidence for that to happen.

Public opinion is already there.

But it won't matter. If this president is not impeached, we might as well just rip up the 1st three articles of the Constitution right now, and accept our fate as a declining, failed democracy for the next century.

Impeachment is as much about precedent as it is about removal from office...especially when it comes to the presidency.

We can debate the merits of the Senate's actions in response to impeachment. But we HAVE to impeach.

The simple act of forcing every U.S. Senator to a public vote on the matter is a potent tool (for both sides) of accountability in the common elections. I'm sure that swing state GOP'ers from states like Colorado (Gardner), Arizona (McSally), Iowa (Earnst), Maine (Collins) and N.C. (Tillis) will not be eager to cast their votes. Even Senate races in states like Kentucky (McConnell, very low state approval, very tough challenger), Alaska (Sullivan, low approval), Georgia (open race, a trending Blue state), Kansas (open race, just elected Dems across the state in 2018) will be competitive this time.

 

[Moderate Right]

On, please. First, the Clean Hands Doctrine is a term of art in Patent Law, not criminal or campaign finance law.

Secondly, it's perfectly legal to use a "foreign national" to provide services in a political campaign provided that person (or entity) is paid at a fair market value rate. That, btw, is the OFFICIAL ruling handed down by the REPUBLICAN-controlled House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence...just last year (i.e. 2018).

Of course, that was when Republicans were still trying to justify all of the overt efforts to seek assistance from Russia by the Trump campaign 2016. Remember, for example, the infamous Trump Tower meeting with Russians who told Trump, Jr they had "dirt" on Hillary to offer? Remember Trump's public call for help from the Russian government? But, as the Trumps...and Lindsey Graham and others have already demonstrated, I'm sure the GOP'ers have all forgotten about that. :roll:

Thirdly, let's not rewrite history. The FACT is that the company that hired Christopher Steele to do "oppo" research on Trump was actually hired by REPUBLICANS affiliated with the right wing Washington Free Beacon newspaper. Fusion GPS then later offered their services to the Clinton campaign after Trump became the defacto winner of the GOP primary contest.



This is just silly, and you ought to know it. What does Trump's legitimacy (or lack thereof) have to do with ANYTHING? Read the Constitution. Democrats are conducting LEGITIMATE investigations of this president. The impeachment process is the LEGITIMATE way to address a president (or any other federal official) whose conduct in office is deemed inappropriate, illegal or unethical. Republicans like you need to stop whining. The Constitution that "legitimized" the electoral victory of Trump in 2016 is the SAME Constitution that dictates impeachment hearings for a president suspected of criminal, unethical and disgraceful conduct...such as this president.


What brainwashed Trump acolytes may want to hear is really irrelevant. You're going to continue to hear Democrats talking about Trump's criminal behavior and abuses of power. You and I both know you cannot make the case that Democrats are abusing power, at all. Come on, now. Somehow, I am almost certain that you had no problem accepting SEVEN (or eight?, I lost count) separate Republican Benghazi-related investigations (all of which produced NO indictments or credible allegations of criminal wrongdoing)...as appropriate "oversight". Amirite about that?:roll:


Yes, of course, you are right. That's why ALL of the leading congressional Republicans who lead the charge against Bill Clinton's "immorality" and "unfitness" for public office, etc........had "clean hands", right? Let's see...how many GOP'ers in congress can I recall who lead the Clinton impeachment fiasco....who were ALSO lying, adulterous scum-bags at that time?

• --Rep. Bob Barr
• --Rep. Bob Livingston
• --Speaker Newt Gingrich
• --Rep. Henry Hyde
• --Rep. Dan Burton
• --Sen. Pete Domineci
• --Sen. Bob Packwood
• --Rep.Gary Condit
• --Rep. Steve LaTourette
• --Sen. David Vitter

:lamo
Yeah, that's right....you Republicans really do have a LONG history of adhering to the principle of "if you're going to claim high moral grounds, you have to have clean hands"!

It's hard to believe you're serious. And yet, I know you are.
:roll:

Democrats hands are not clean. They have done the very same thing that Trump is accused of doing.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Democrats hands are not clean. They have done the very same thing that Trump is accused of doing.

when did a sitting Dem POTUS solicit dirt on a political rival from a foreign national?

 

[Moderate Right]

when did a sitting Dem POTUS solicit dirt on a political rival from a foreign national?

We already know that the Obama administration did this and Hillary & Co but Democrats don't want to investigate that.

 

[jnug]

We already know that the Obama administration did this and Hillary & Co but Democrats don't want to investigate that.

We don't know anything of the sort. But you can keep running the same old tired BS out there. Why not. Trump does it daily.

 

[Moderate Right]

We don't know anything of the sort. But you can keep running the same old tired BS out there. Why not. Trump does it daily.

So BS from Democrats is OK but BS from the right is not OK? Democrats ran the same old tired Russian Collusion BS for two years and they had their insurance policy already in place in case Trump won the 2016 election.

 

[independentusa]

So BS from Democrats is OK but BS from the right is not OK? Democrats ran the same old tired Russian Collusion BS for two years and they had their insurance policy already in place in case Trump won the 2016 election.

We will believe when you reply with a "real" link showing that the Dems did this also. You or Trump saying so does not make it so.

 

[snakestretcher]

We already know that the Obama administration did this and Hillary & Co but Democrats don't want to investigate that.

No we don't know that. You think you know that. There's the difference.

 

[Moderate Right]

We will believe when you reply with a "real" link showing that the Dems did this also. You or Trump saying so does not make it so.

So you deny that Democrats were crying Russian Collusion all the way up to the Mueller report? You deny that Hillary & Co paid a foreign spy to dig up dirt on Trump? You deny that Obama administration employees formed an insurance policy to take Trump down if he won?

 

[Moderate Right]

No we don't know that. You think you know that. There's the difference.

Just explained that to independent. We do know that.

 

[VanceMack]

The biggest trouble I have with the whole thing is that Democrats have abused their power to get Trump with Hillary & Co digging up dirt on Trump through foreign means and Democrats don't seem to care about that at all.

Asie from the fact that democrats and the leftist media have been clamoring for impeachment since before the president was inaugurated, this is what makes the leftist position so completely laughable.

YThey CHEERED the DNC paying an intermediary to pay an intermediary to hire a foreign agent to hire another foreigh agent to hire yet another foreign agent to fabricate evidence to then use against a presidential candidate...and then cheered the use of that same fraudulent material to be used in a 3 year long investigation........but today say that the president asking a foreign government to investigate a potential criminal act is treasonous.

Leftists are a joke. Their position is a joke. Sadly...there are enogubof them in office that they may pull of an impeachment...which has been their stated goal for 3 straight years.

What would be the logical next step then would be that since theleftists have declared such actions to be worthy of impeachment, HRC and co should all be arrested.

 

[nitroexpress]

It is as simple as that. The House which is controlled by the Dems will impeach. There was enough in the Mueller report to impeach any other president, but the Dems could find no silver bullet that was needed to do so with Trump. Now with the Ukraine issue they have found the bullet the Dems needed to go ahead with impeachment. And today to add fuel to the fire, Trump has asked the Chinese to also look into his political opponent, although Trump may be going after the wrong Dem as it looks as if he should be looking for dirt on Warren rather than Biden. So impeachment is going to happen.
The Senate is controlled by the GOP and they will never convict and oust Trump. If this same situation had happened with Obama the GOP would have convicted in a moment, but the GOP in general still fears the Trump base and will not convict unless there is a huge swing in the polls toward impeachment and conviction. The latest polls show a drop in Trump's popularity, but not low enough for the GOP to turn on him and convict. I have heard that it would take polls that show him dropping below 35% before any GOP Senator would vote for conviction, and no one sees that happening.
So in the end we will have impeachment and then he will not be convicted. The real question is if any GOPer either in the House or the Senate will vote against Trump. What this will do to the nation is continue the great divide and maybe even make it worse, but I see no other action the Dems can take. To do less is saying to the Trump and the GOP, laws do not count.

It's all a political farce. If Pelosi was serious, she would have called for a vote in the House. Why won't she? Because she wants Lil Adam Schiff to try and find dirt to sling at Trump. Doesn't matter if truth prevails, it's election time. Btw, still waiting for Schiff to reveal his conclusive evidence of Trump collusion. 2 years and waiting Adam. Nancy has a dilemma. Call for a vote and expose moderate Dems to voters wraith and give the Republicans the right to subpoena or head down and forge ahead. What will Pelosi do? Mueller was a bust for the Dems. Volker was a bust for the Dems. Is Schiff running out of ideas? Looks like Pelosi will continue political hay gathering and not pursue the truth.