Trump tax cuts did not work. 2018 GDP revised down to 2.9%

[Bullseye]

U.S. fourth-quarter GDP revised down; profits weak



So, we didn't hit 3% GDP and indicators are pointing to a recession or slowdown. If Trump hasn't improved the economy, what has he done besides golfing and tweeting?

Well, gee, it's been a whole year! And nothing. Shameful. :roll:

 

[Fletch]

Why not? He said that if we went along with his corporate tax cuts that the economy would boom and GDP would boom. If we shackled ourself with extra debt for nothing, surely, that's a point of criticism. He never had to turnaround an economy in recession the way Obama did. So, Trump has to really accelerate economic growth to prove he's had any impact beyond inheriting a healthy economy.

Let's face it, if we go into a recession there is no way Trump is reelected.

I know. Now that your Mueller fantasy has collapsed, you now how to wish for a recession.

 

[jonny5]

The point was: We have less revenue than otherwise, due to the corporate revenue losses.

The point was, so what? We have more revenue. They could have simply spent that extra revenue, and no change in deficit. Or saved it and lowered the deficit. Instead they spent it and 10x more.

 

[WCH]

Still peddling that LIE?

Since the BOTTOM 50% pays only 3% of the taxes, who should save more?

Middle earners got the HIGHEST % cut, BY FAR...3-4%.

WHY DOES THE LEFT ALWAYS HAVE TO LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING?

Because they won't or can't give Trump credit for anything positive. Even if it's good for them personally.

Speaking of personally, how is the economy treating each of you? Did any of you have lower taxes this last year? Did you make more money?

 

[jonny5]

Regardless, the Trump tax cuts force working Americans to pay a larger share of the country's revenue burden, and subsequently corporate entities bear a smaller share of the burden.

No, theyre paying the same either way (actually less because tax rates went down and standard deduction went up). Whether thats through higher prices, or income taxes. Every single dollar of tax that a corporate entity pay comes out of selling products to working americans.

 

[WCH]

I know. Now that your Mueller fantasy has collapsed, you now how to wish for a recession.

They wanted badly for our POTUS to be found guilty of treason. Where do you go from there?

There's no end to their lust for power.

 

[Lesh]

No, theyre paying the same either way (actually less because tax rates went down and standard deduction went up). Whether thats through higher prices, or income taxes. Every single dollar of tax that a corporate entity pay comes out of selling products to working americans.

Then it would follow that a huge tax break for corporations would lead to a drop in prices. That of course never happens. They give themselves bonus's , buy back stocks (making their existing stock portfolio more valuable) and increase their profit margins

Oh...

 

[jonny5]

Then it would follow that a huge tax break for corporations would lead to a drop in prices. That of course never happens. They give themselves bonus's , buy back stocks (making their existing stock portfolio more valuable) and increase their profit margins

Oh...

They also expand, hire more people, innovate, research. Simply taking the profit would allow their competitors to steal market share by lowering their prices.

competition....

 

[Lesh]

No, theyre paying the same either way (actually less because tax rates went down and standard deduction went up). Whether thats through higher prices, or income taxes. Every single dollar of tax that a corporate entity pay comes out of selling products to working americans.

Personally I know MY taxes went up due to the loss of deductions. $2500.

I spoke to my tax prep guy and according to him folks making more modest incomes (which is most people) got a tax cut that showed up in their payroll. In fact the schedules changed such that the amount deducted from payrolls was reduced by MORE than the actual tax cut, resulting in lower refunds. Funny thing though...even with that, the tax cut even with the extra reduction was so small that most people never even noticed it

 

[jonny5]

Personally I know MY taxes went up due to the loss of deductions. $2500.

I spoke to my tax prep guy and according to him folks making more modest incomes (which is most people) got a tax cut that showed up in their payroll. In fact the schedules changed such that the amount deducted from payrolls was reduced by MORE than the actual tax cut, resulting in lower refunds. Funny thing though...even with that, the tax cut even with the extra reduction was so small that most people never even noticed it

I feel like we covered this in another thread somewhere, and it was actually that you didnt lose the deductions. You just didnt understand your own taxes. But that could be someone else. Refunds dont matter. All that matters is the bottom line total tax paid. Whether people notice it or not doesnt matter either. Thats a political problem.

 

[Chomsky]

The point was, so what? We have more revenue. They could have simply spent that extra revenue, and no change in deficit. Or saved it and lowered the deficit. Instead they spent it and 10x more.

Because every year the population increase and inflation grow the budget. Which is why you don't shrink revenue proportionally to the budget growth, thereby increasing the deficit, which is what the Stable Genius that knows everything did!

No, theyre paying the same either way (actually less because tax rates went down and standard deduction went up). Whether thats through higher prices, or income taxes. Every single dollar of tax that a corporate entity pay comes out of selling products to working americans.

They are paying the same, corps are paying less, therefore the deficit is growing. There's no free ride here, buddy. It's that simple. The numbers (and dollars) don't lie.

 

[Lesh]

They also expand, hire more people, innovate, research. Simply taking the profit would allow their competitors to steal market share by lowering their prices.

competition....

Which hasn't happened.

Hmmm

 

[Lesh]

I feel like we covered this in another thread somewhere, and it was actually that you didnt lose the deductions. You just didnt understand your own taxes. But that could be someone else. Refunds dont matter. All that matters is the bottom line total tax paid. Whether people notice it or not doesnt matter either. Thats a political problem.

Then you didn't read what I wrote.

Refunds don't matter IF...payroll deductions remain the same

Payroll tables were adjusted to reflect the tax cuts AND a little more (to make them look bigger?) and THAT is what reduced refunds.

The revealing thing is that even WITH that extra reduction...few people even noticed the pitiful tax cut in their paychecks.

They DID notice the reduced refunds though

And then there's all those folks who lost deductions like me and ended up paying thousands more

 

[bongsaway]

Hmmm

Trump Claims the Economy Is the Best Ever—These 11 Facts Tell a Different Story

Don't tell fletch or grok.

 

[bongsaway]

A nod is as good as a wink, to a blind horse. Facts have no bearing on trump or his followers. It's going to take their medicare, food stamps and overall loss of health care for his base to believe he isn't a good president. I think half the farmers already believe it and most of the manufacturing and coal industries. Trade wars are easy to win.

 

[jonny5]

Because every year the population increase and inflation grow the budget. Which is why you don't shrink revenue proportionally to the budget growth, thereby increasing the deficit, which is what the Stable Genius that knows everything did!

They are paying the same, corps are paying less, therefore the deficit is growing. There's no free ride here, buddy. It's that simple. The numbers (and dollars) don't lie.

Im not youre buddy, friend. But there is a free ride, from about half the population who pays no income tax. If you want more money, go get it. And neither inflation nor population grew 8%, so no need for 8% increase in spending.

 

[jonny5]

Which hasn't happened.

Hmmm

Yes it has.

Hmmmm?

 

[jonny5]

Then you didn't read what I wrote.

Refunds don't matter IF...payroll deductions remain the same

Payroll tables were adjusted to reflect the tax cuts AND a little more (to make them look bigger?) and THAT is what reduced refunds.

The revealing thing is that even WITH that extra reduction...few people even noticed the pitiful tax cut in their paychecks.

They DID notice the reduced refunds though

And then there's all those folks who lost deductions like me and ended up paying thousands more

Refunds dont matter period. If you paid more tax on the same income and situation, then you did something wrong. What deductions did you lose? Is this the trucking per diem which we showed you WENT UP? Are you still itemizing at a lower deduction than the standard deduction which doubled?

 

[Chomsky]

Im not youre buddy, friend. But there is a free ride, from about half the population who pays no income tax. If you want more money, go get it. And neither inflation nor population grew 8%, so no need for 8% increase in spending.

That's alright Jonny, you can still be my friend!

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

They wanted badly for our POTUS to be found guilty of treason. Where do you go from there?

There's no end to their lust for power.

You can say whatever you want but you can't get around the FACT that while Trump was promoting pro-Russia policies he was secretly negotiating to build a tower in Moscow that would require Putin's approval and make him millions.

That's just a fact.

To a rational person, the fact that you ignore this and still support this con man, is irrational.

When I talk to Trump supporters, I talk to them the way I would to a Scientologist. I just accept that they are very gullible and are victims of a scam.

 

[Lesh]

Refunds dont matter period. If you paid more tax on the same income and situation, then you did something wrong. What deductions did you lose? Is this the trucking per diem which we showed you WENT UP? Are you still itemizing at a lower deduction than the standard deduction which doubled?

WTF are you talking about? I just explained EXACTLY how and why refunds are lower. How do you not understand that payroll tax tables that take out too much would reduce refunds?

As for my tax INCREASE? Are you not aware that deductions have been capped by that "tax cut"?

 

[Lesh]

Yes it has.

Hmmmm?

Really? Forbes seems to disagree with you

Trump's Tax Cuts Haven't Spiked Job Growth

 

[jonny5]

WTF are you talking about? I just explained EXACTLY how and why refunds are lower. How do you not understand that payroll tax tables that take out too much would reduce refunds?

As for my tax INCREASE? Are you not aware that deductions have been capped by that "tax cut"?

Refunds dont matter, no matter how many times you explain it. All that matters when talking about tax cuts is how much tax you paid last year and this year. How much you get refunded is irrelevant.

And yes, but im not sure youre aware of the standard deduction. Capped deductions dont matter either if you arent using them.

 

[jonny5]

Really? Forbes seems to disagree with you

Trump's Tax Cuts Haven't Spiked Job Growth

Pertty sure I mentioned many more things businesses do when they pay less taxes, than just hire. You should be more specific when you say NUH UH.

 

[WCH]

You can say whatever you want but you can't get around the FACT that while Trump was promoting pro-Russia policies he was secretly negotiating to build a tower in Moscow that would require Putin's approval and make him millions.

That's just a fact.

To a rational person, the fact that you ignore this and still support this con man, is irrational.

When I talk to Trump supporters, I talk to them the way I would to a Scientologist. I just accept that they are very gullible and are victims of a scam.

Prove it.

BTW, only dimwits still believe that crap.