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Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster


I hate to break this to you but if you were poor and your parents kept getting refunds then that was either due to "refundable credits" which really aren't refunds or it was due to them having more tax withheld from their check than they needed to which wasn't a function of the tax law but, rather, a problem of them CHOOSING to take less money with each check in favor of a larger refund at the end of the year. If the reason for their refund was the former then there's really nothing else they could have done to fix that problem. If their refund was due to the latter reason then they were basically choosing not to feed you guys and not to pay rent or utilities because they wanted a bigger refund in April.
 

you're the one whining about paying taxes. i offered a solution.
 
From the article:
GOP operatives insisted that the “blue wave” on the horizon would crest long before November — because the Trump Tax Cuts were about to kick in. Once voters saw fatter paychecks, Republicans would see better poll numbers. And just to be sure that voters noticed all the good Paul Ryan had done for them, the Trump administration reportedly pressured the IRS to err on the side of withholding too little from Americans’ paychecks "so people will see big increases in their take-home pay ahead of this year’s midterm elections."

This did not work out as planned.

Red:
Yes, I'm sure, one way or another, some folks saw fatter paychecks. I noticed the difference in my estimated tax payments. (Note: my estimated tax payments are structured to result in my, come April 15th, having paid ~90% of my federal tax liability.) I suspect, however, that most folks, regardless of their gross or pre-tax "take home" income, found the difference, as did I, inconsequential to their lifestyle. And therein lies a key problem with Trump's tax cut (the TCJA).

Tax cuts aren't supposed or generally designed to be "life altering;" however, if one's going to advertise them as being "middle class" tax cuts, members of the middle class (folks in the third through sixth septiles) ought, proportionally, get a better cut than folks in other economic segments of the population. Yet, that's just not how the TCJA doles the benefit of the cuts. Indeed the nature and extent of the revisions to the corporate sections of the tax code provided "life altering" reductions -- the plethora of stock buybacks being the early indicator of such -- to organizations that have, as the unabated and comparatively steep value increase of every stock index that readily comes to my mind: Dow indices, S&P indices, CBOE, NASDAQ, Russel, Goldman, etc.

Now folks are beginning to see what analyst after analyst indicated before Congress/Trump enacted the TCJA: it's little but a successfully marketed set of "window dressing" and "smoke and mirrors" set of provisions that allow corporations and wealthy folks (from "entry level" wealthy on up) retain more earnings, and it does so at a time when it's increasingly prudent (due to the greater returns to AI/robotics than to labor) for such folks to invest those retained earnings in purchases not of labor, but of capital. Exacerbating the matter is Trump's chaotic approach to articulating policy, particularly trade policy and policies that sagacious managers consider in evaluating decisions such as how to expand, where to deploy resources, whether to buy or outsource "this or that," whether/where to erect/buy new facilities, etc.


Blue:
So, yes, folks see fatter paychecks. The problem is what they don't see and don't bother to look for, behaviors typical of many a middle class citizen, Trumpkins in particular. I'm sure many a sharkbite victim saw lovely seas and beautiful skies but not the jaws lurking below....

Trump's tax cut is much like everything else coming from him: deceptive.

​
 
Helix said:
you're the one whining about paying taxes. i offered a solution.
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You offered no solution other than whiny assed emotions regarding your returns!

Takers, always talk just like you............................ Let's screw anyone anyone that doesn't give a grand or two per child of the takers who were irresponsible to begin with.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You offered no solution other than whiny assed emotions regarding your returns!
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not really. i don't mind paying taxes for the most part, as i enjoy being a member of a stable first world society, and that's the bill. my point is that significantly reduced refunds might cost the Trumpist party some votes. as predictions go, this one isn't very controversial.

RetiredUSN said:
Takers, always talk just like you............................ Let's screw anyone anyone that doesn't give a grand or two per child of the takers who were irresponsible to begin with.
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i'm not a "taker," but thanks for the flailing insult.
 

Thank you for not minding too much. :lamo But, you blamed Trumpist's for you lower return.

Suck it up and aim higher......................or just keeping whining like most takers.

Like I said.......... wanna swap returns with this 10th grade drop out?

I can guarantee that you will stop your whining.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Thank you for not minding too much. :lamo But, you blamed Trumpist's for you lower return.
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i pointed out that if refunds go down significantly, the Trumpist party might take a hit. as for my own refund, i have no idea what it will be this year.

RetiredUSN said:
Suck it up and aim higher......................or just keeping whining like most takers.
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i have worked in a highly skilled field for almost two decades. i'm not a taker. perhaps you should flail in a different direction.

RetiredUSN said:
Like I said.......... wanna swap returns with this 10th grade drop out?
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i don't really care about your returns other than to help you figure out a way to pay less by dropping into another socioeconomic bracket. the offer still stands.

RetiredUSN said:
I can guarantee that you will stop your whining.
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i'm not whining, and i've explained myself quite well. given this, i will be cutting out points that have already been addressed from future quote farms. this will save us both time. time is money, so perhaps you can use some of it to offset the tax returns that seem to bother you so much.
 

I guess I just wonder how you come up with the idea that Trump and his cronies had nothing to do with Russia. They had over 100 meetings that they lied about and already we have had what, over 35 indictments and over 7 guilty pleas or convictions, many for lying to congress about their meetings with the Russians. As of yet we have not heard anything out of Mueller's team, which is a good thing as leaks in an investigation are not a good. Do you really think that Trump and his team had nothing to so with the Russian's and that all of this is just an obsession. I think if Mueller's team comes out with the finding that Trump's team played a role with the Russian interference in our election and gave you evidence, you would never believe.
 

Of course it makes more financial sense to keep your withholdings low. But poor people keep their withholdings high because they don't have savings to pay thousands at the end of the year. The refund acts like a kind of yearly savings. When you're poor you end up spending everything you get.

My point is just that poor Trump supporters are going to be really pissed when that refund check shows up smaller than expected. Now all Dems have to do is whisper in their ear, "The tax cuts went to the elite. Trump is an elite. He fooled you."
 

So, essentially, all the Democrats need to do is lie to the people and they'll get the results they want! That's really a brilliant plan and, probably, far more truthful than you imagine.
 
Lutherf said:
So, essentially, all the Democrats need to do is lie to the people and they'll get the results they want! That's really a brilliant plan and, probably, far more truthful than you imagine.
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That would be tearing a page straight out of Trump's playbook. Remember, El Paso crime turnaround after the wall was built? (lie) Remember, our economy is booming? (lie)

But the fact that the tax cuts were far more beneficial to the wealthy is no lie.
 

Poor people don't pay Federal income taxes.
 

Sounds like you're one of the folks who oughta be paying more, anyway.
 
apdst said:
Sounds like you're one of the folks who oughta be paying more, anyway.
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i pay my taxes. thanks for sharing your opinion.
 

That (bolded above) is quite an assertion. Granting an interest free loan to the IRS (US Treasuary?) is a rather (economically) stupid thing to do. If nothing else, having a small savings account at least gets you free checking and the ability to avoid falling behind on bills thus avoiding late fees/penalties.
 
Helix said:
i pay my taxes. thanks for sharing your opinion.
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Sounds like you're going to pay your fair share and you ain't none too happy about it.
 

I'd rather just keep all my money and cut a check for 5% every april.
 

like i said, not a great investment, but it's a pretty common practice. as for me, yeah, i have a savings account or two. less than i should have saved back, but i'm working on it.
 
apdst said:
Sounds like you're going to pay your fair share and you ain't none too happy about it.
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once again, your analysis is pretty much what i would expect.
 

This is the playbook of the GOP and finally a play that most americans can understand. Their tax return this year is lower or you actually owe for the first time. People understand that if nothing else and yet this is what republicans do all the time. They word things to make them sound great to their base, you're gonna' have more in your paychecks and then the collective brain of the base turns off after hearing that part and does not absorb the rest of the double talk. Tariffs are good, the president is finally standing up to those foreign cheaters. Umm no, tariffs are not good ask the farmers. If you tell republicans they are voting against their own best interests, they get indignant. Willful ignorance is not the same as winning.
 
Helix said:
that's an interesting assertion. how many conspirators / planters of tactical nukes in the twin towers have been indicted and have pled guilty so far?
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The same number who have been indicted for collusion with Russia.
 
JustHanging said:
If you figure in the tariffs, you could very well be paying more taxes this year.
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And I also could very well not be. :roll: Plus going after China for its trade practices is something I support. In fact it is something that liberals used to support as well, before.....Trump.
 

Well, you would be wrong. If Mueller comes up with evidence that Trump did something nefarious with Russia during the campaign, I will not support him. As far as your number of indictments goes, of the 35, 27 were of Russians who were said to have no links to anyone in the Trump camp. Manafort and Gates were indicted for things they did before they even met Trump. There are really only 3 indictments that hit close to home for Trump: Flynn, Cohen and Stone. Flynn was for a lie he told to the FBI about things that took place AFTER the election. So horrible were his crimes that the Mueller team is asking that he be sentenced to zero jail time. Stone is in trouble for lying about contacts he had with Wikileaks--which werent a crime to begin with. That leaves Cohen. That may lead somewhere, I dont know. He hasnt been charged with collusion or conspiracy or treason so that may lead nowhere as well. But until Mueller concludes this thing, we have no way of knowing. But if Trump is 'an agent of a foreign power' as many on the left claim, then every moment he sits in office endangers the country. If true, the outrage should be focused Mueller for not getting to the bottom of this much, much sooner.
 
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