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Trump says whether he’ll commit to NATO mutual defense guarantee ‘depends on your definition’

Hamish Howl

Hamish Howl

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apnews.com

Trump says whether he'll commit to NATO mutual defense guarantee 'depends on your definition'

President Donald Trump injected some some uncertainty over whether the U.S. would abide by the mutual defense guarantees outlined in the NATO treaty as he headed to its summit.
apnews.com apnews.com

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — President Donald Trump on Tuesday injected some uncertainty over whether the U.S. would abide by the mutual defense guarantees outlined in the NATO treaty as he headed to its summit — comments that could revive long-standing concern from European allies about his commitment to the military alliance.

“Depends on your definition,” Trump told reporters as he was headed to The Hague, where this year’s summit is being held. “There’s numerous definitions of Article 5. You know that, right? But I’m committed to being their friends.” Asked later aboard Air Force One to clarify, Trump said he is “committed to saving lives” and “committed to life and safety” but did not expand further.
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Translation:

"Dearest Vladimir-Chan,

If you invade Europe I won't mind. NOTICE ME, SENPAI!"
 
If he won't commit to article 5 then the US should be expelled from NATO. Article 5 is the cornerstone of NATO. You can be damn sure if Iran retaliates in a successful way against the US, Trump would invoke it in a heartbeat.
 
“Depends on your definition” is right. A lot is left open to interpretation. According to the Treaty:

“Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6​

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

  • on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
  • on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”


For further reference, Article 51 of the UN Charter says the following:

“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”

Chapter VII: Article 51 — Charter of the United Nations — Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs — Codification Division Publications

This is the website of the Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs (Legal Publications of the Codification Division of the Office of Legal Affairs). Here you will find related information and links.
legal.un.org
 
Napoleon said:
“Depends on your definition” is right. A lot is left open to interpretation. According to the Treaty:

“Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6​

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

  • on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
  • on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”


For further reference, Article 51 of the UN Charter says the following:

“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”

Chapter VII: Article 51 — Charter of the United Nations — Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs — Codification Division Publications

This is the website of the Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs (Legal Publications of the Codification Division of the Office of Legal Affairs). Here you will find related information and links.
legal.un.org
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Bend over.
 
European countries, like all of us, certainly know they must humor Trump, but recognize there are no guarantees its going to get them anywhere.
 
Napoleon said:
“Depends on your definition” is right. A lot is left open to interpretation. According to the Treaty:

“Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6​

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

  • on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
  • on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”


For further reference, Article 51 of the UN Charter says the following:

“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”

Chapter VII: Article 51 — Charter of the United Nations — Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs — Codification Division Publications

This is the website of the Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs (Legal Publications of the Codification Division of the Office of Legal Affairs). Here you will find related information and links.
legal.un.org
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I love it when Trumpists attempt to intellectualize the ramblings of a complete and total idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about at best.

And someone whos actively working against America and her allies in a worst case scenario.

Trump doesn’t understand… anything.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I love it when Trumpists attempt to intellectualize the ramblings of a complete and total idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about at best.

And someone whos actively working against America and her allies in a worst case scenario.

Trump doesn’t understand… anything.
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So you have no rebuttal.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Haha.

I know your MO, so it’s okay.

But it is funny to see you attempt to intellectualize the ramblings of a complete retard who understands nothing.
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He obviously understands the ambiguity of the Treaty. You have nothing intelligent to say.
 
Napoleon said:
He obviously understands the ambiguity of the Treaty. You have nothing intelligent to say.
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Nah he is just being trump. He could have said he clearly supports the treaty but being the unprincipled person he is, he used the usual weasel words he uses
 
That kind of talk just makes it more likely that a country would attack a NATO country and more likely the US would be dragged into a war.

That's basic common sense stuff, something such a genius expert negotiator would know.
 
iliveonramen said:
That kind of talk just makes it more likely that a country would attack a NATO country and more likely the US would be dragged into a war.

That's basic common sense stuff, something such a genius expert negotiator would know.
Click to expand...

That ship sailed at Montenegro.
 
Napoleon said:
“Depends on your definition” is right. A lot is left open to interpretation. According to the Treaty:

“Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6​

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

  • on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
  • on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”


For further reference, Article 51 of the UN Charter says the following:

“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”

Chapter VII: Article 51 — Charter of the United Nations — Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs — Codification Division Publications

This is the website of the Repertory of Practice of United Nations Organs (Legal Publications of the Codification Division of the Office of Legal Affairs). Here you will find related information and links.
legal.un.org
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Hawaii falls outside of the treaty
 
BirdinHand said:
Even if we sign, the world would be wise not to actually take the word of this Administration to mean shit.

🤷‍♀️
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This! Getting a commitment from Trump is akin to the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog.
 

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Callen said:
If he won't commit to article 5 then the US should be expelled from NATO. Article 5 is the cornerstone of NATO. You can be damn sure if Iran retaliates in a successful way against the US, Trump would invoke it in a heartbeat.
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Completely agree. Trump is presenting America as a coward that may not abide by NATO's Article 5 provision.

Either they should get the hell out or a new defence pact be formed without them.
 
I wonder who really, really wants NATO weakened beyond usefulness.
 
Callen said:
If he won't commit to article 5 then the US should be expelled from NATO. Article 5 is the cornerstone of NATO. You can be damn sure if Iran retaliates in a successful way against the US, Trump would invoke it in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what Trump would do. I doubt he knows either.
 
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