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Trump & Putin – without Zelensky?

Ime, only a naive fool would believe anything from the murderously retarded US/NATO neocons... They've been murderously retarded liars our whole lives:

"The ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Serbs by a US-backed Croatian leader was premeditated, according to newly-uncovered files revealing the operation’s planning. After the bloodshed subsided, Richard Holbrooke, a top US diplomat, assured him: “We said publicly… that we were concerned, but privately, you knew what we wanted.”

August 4, 2025 marks the 30th anniversary of Operation Storm. Little known outside the former Yugoslavia, the military campaign unleashed a genocidal cataclysm that violently expelled Croatia’s entire Serb population. Dubbed “the most efficient ethnic cleansing we’ve seen in the Balkans” by Swedish politician Carl Bildt, Croat forces rampaged UN-protected areas of the self-declared Serb Republic of Krajina, looting, burning, raping and murdering their way across the province. Up to 350,000 locals fled, many on foot, never to return. Meanwhile, thousands were summarily executed.

As these hideous scenes unfolded, UN peacekeepers charged with protecting Krajina watched without intervening. Meanwhile, US officials strenuously denied the horrifying massacres and mass displacement amounted to ethnic cleansing, let alone war crimes. NATO member state governments were far more interested in the “sophistication” of Zagreb’s military tactics. One British colonel heading a UN observer mission in the area gushed, “whoever wrote that plan of attack could have gone to any NATO staff college in North America or Western Europe and scored an A-plus.”

Widely overlooked documents reviewed by The Grayzone help explain why Croatian forces were graded so highly: Operation Storm was for all intents and purposes a NATO attack, carried out by soldiers armed and trained by the US and directly coordinated with other Western powers. Despite publicly endorsing a negotiated peace, Washington privately encouraged Zagreb to employ maximum belligerence, even as their ultranationalist Croat proxies plotted to strike with such ferocity that the country’s entire Serb population would “to all practical purposes disappear...”


 
Ime, only a naive fool would believe anything from the murderously retarded US/NATO neocons... They've been murderously retarded liars our whole lives:

"The ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Serbs by a US-backed Croatian leader was premeditated, according to newly-uncovered files revealing the operation’s planning. After the bloodshed subsided, Richard Holbrooke, a top US diplomat, assured him: “We said publicly… that we were concerned, but privately, you knew what we wanted.”

August 4, 2025 marks the 30th anniversary of Operation Storm. Little known outside the former Yugoslavia, the military campaign unleashed a genocidal cataclysm that violently expelled Croatia’s entire Serb population. Dubbed “the most efficient ethnic cleansing we’ve seen in the Balkans” by Swedish politician Carl Bildt, Croat forces rampaged UN-protected areas of the self-declared Serb Republic of Krajina, looting, burning, raping and murdering their way across the province. Up to 350,000 locals fled, many on foot, never to return. Meanwhile, thousands were summarily executed.

As these hideous scenes unfolded, UN peacekeepers charged with protecting Krajina watched without intervening. Meanwhile, US officials strenuously denied the horrifying massacres and mass displacement amounted to ethnic cleansing, let alone war crimes. NATO member state governments were far more interested in the “sophistication” of Zagreb’s military tactics. One British colonel heading a UN observer mission in the area gushed, “whoever wrote that plan of attack could have gone to any NATO staff college in North America or Western Europe and scored an A-plus.”

Widely overlooked documents reviewed by The Grayzone help explain why Croatian forces were graded so highly: Operation Storm was for all intents and purposes a NATO attack, carried out by soldiers armed and trained by the US and directly coordinated with other Western powers. Despite publicly endorsing a negotiated peace, Washington privately encouraged Zagreb to employ maximum belligerence, even as their ultranationalist Croat proxies plotted to strike with such ferocity that the country’s entire Serb population would “to all practical purposes disappear...”



United Nations General Assembly Resolution 78/282 is a resolution adopted by the seventy-eighth session of the United Nations General Assembly on May 23, 2024, designating July 11 as the International Day of Reflection and Commemoration of the 1995 Genocide in Srebrenica.
 
There's something seriously wrong with Zelensky's way of thinking. Who in human history has ever settled for a land swap unless they had to? If Russia holds 20%; and all opinion about agrees it may be impossible for Ukraine to get it back; then what does what a Constitution say matter?

And why does he want to be in Alaska where the starting position of the US is that Ukraine has to make land concessions? In essence it is like he wants to participate in discussions he himself is insisting his Constitution forbids his participation!







The best thing Trump can do is to really distance the US from Zelensky. Zelensky already has the size of army he should have after settlement. The budget to go with it. In addition to the rebuilding and pensions you mentioned. And Zelensky considers it the least his European partners should do.

You don't think it smacks of Chamberlain at Munich? Negotiating the fate of Czechoslovakia without the Czechs?
 
You don't think it smacks of Chamberlain at Munich? Negotiating the fate of Czechoslovakia without the Czechs?



Or Daladier at Munich:) Somehow history has let Daladier off the hook. He was right there alongside Chamberlain.

Yes, it does smack of Daladier at Munich:) Unfortunately life did not begin, nor ended with Hitler. History is replete with all kinds of Munich: minor and outrageous. Probably the most outrageous Munich was the 1884 Berlin Conference that divided up Africa. LOL That Conference was everything about Africa but without a single African.

Now back to Zelensky.

The "nothing about Ukraine, without Ukraine" is nice but can also be wishful thinking. Zelensky has to have his own cards to sit at the table. That is True for any table. The Trump decision to no more actively solicit aid from Congress for Ukraine is a decision about Ukraine, but without any input from Ukraine.

Plus Zelensky's interpretation of nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine is also problematic. He would like to be able to set partner minimum partner contributions as well as veto any partner up and leaving. Those are cards he does not have.
 
Or Daladier at Munich:) Somehow history has let Daladier off the hook. He was right there alongside Chamberlain.

Yes, it does smack of Daladier at Munich:) Unfortunately life did not begin, nor ended with Hitler. History is replete with all kinds of Munich: minor and outrageous. Probably the most outrageous Munich was the 1884 Berlin Conference that divided up Africa. LOL That Conference was everything about Africa but without a single African.

Now back to Zelensky.

The "nothing about Ukraine, without Ukraine" is nice but can also be wishful thinking. Zelensky has to have his own cards to sit at the table. That is True for any table. The Trump decision to no more actively solicit aid from Congress for Ukraine is a decision about Ukraine, but without any input from Ukraine.

Plus Zelensky's interpretation of nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine is also problematic. He would like to be able to set partner minimum partner contributions as well as veto any partner up and leaving. Those are cards he does not have.

I think Daladier was prepared to be as firm with Germany was Chamberlain decided to be. He wasn't in a position to take a unilateral strong stand, but was prepared to be firm if the British joined him. The ball was entirely in Chamberlain's court as to the Allied stance. If Chamberlain is Trump, Daladier is the EU.

I think we need to decide what's in our best national interest where it comes to Ukraine. Are we better off with a Putin victory? I don't see how we are. You may argue that it doesn't matter either way to us and that we have no stake in the outcome... but I don't think that's the case, either. We're still a member of NATO... and an emboldened and strengthened Putin just brings him closer to a confrontation with a NATO country. Poland, the Baltics, take your pick.
 
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