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Trump is using the military to crush freedom of speech

NatMorton said:
The sad part is that you probably believe that's true.

I say this in all sincerity: you're in no position to shame me. Clear your own head, first.
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Thanks for nothing, Mr. ''Small Government".

Didn't the Jan 6 rioters assault cops?
 
NatMorton said:
They sure did. I'd see them in jail. You?
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Okay and Trump pardoned them. Are you going to protest these Trump pardons or call your Congressman every day about it? Or do you really not care about "small government" and the poor policemen who got assaulted and really chimed in to "own the libs".

Is sending the US military to California to quell protest a government overreach or not?
 
j brown's body said:
"Donald Trump’s desire to militarize American politics and politicize the American military is unfinished business. Militarizing American politics means defining all those who do not conform to his version of normality as mortal enemies to be confronted as though they were hostile foreign nations. Politicizing the military means dismantling its self-image as an institution that transcends partisan divisions, is broadly representative of the US population, and owes its primary loyalty not to the president but to the Constitution. These aims are intertwined, but the first cannot be consummated until the second has been accomplished. Trump failed to do this in his first term, but he is determined not to be thwarted again.

...Trump’s deployment of troops in Los Angeles thus had no military purpose. It can best be thought of as a counterdemonstration. For Trump, those who protest against him are “paid troublemakers, agitators, and insurrectionists.” He cannot imagine large-scale dissent as anything other than a professionally organized conspiracy. The US Army, by this logic, is his own professionally organized crowd. It must be seen on the streets to demonstrate his personal power. That military presence in turn redefines peaceful protesters as enemies of the United States. They cease to be citizens exercising constitutionally protected rights to free speech and assembly and become outlaws and aliens.

...putting troops on the streets of Los Angeles is a training exercise for the army, a form of reorientation. Soldiers are being retrained or loyalty to the president rather than the Constitution. They are meanwhile becoming accustomed to confronting that deviant and anomalous America. In his Fort Bragg speech, Trump invited the troops to see protesters in Los Angeles as invaders: “We will not allow an American city to be invaded and conquered by a foreign enemy, and that’s what they are.” But what was happening in LA was, he claimed, even worse than an armed incursion: If the army doesn’t know exactly who “they” are, it has to be told. Trump reminded the troops that their purpose is to spread fear: “For our adversaries, there is no greater fear than the United States Army.” Its job now is to spread that fear to an ununiformed and thus unknowable mass of internal enemies. Just as Trump transforms actual rebellion into the vague but omnipresent “danger of a rebellion,” he makes the invading army invisible, amorphous, and fluid. Traditional military doctrine demands a clear understanding of the nature of the threat and the shape of the opposing forces. Contrariwise, in the Trump doctrine the threat must be as nebulous as possible, and the opposing forces must be formless. Thus only the commander-in-chief can say at any given time what they are. The enemy the army must learn to face is one that he, and he alone, can conjure."

Link

Needless to say, this bad.
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Your points are well taken but the military isn't doing anything in LA except to stand around watching civilian life go by.

The Army military is the National Guard federalized by the C'nC -- not ordered into LA by the governor nor requested by the Mayor each of whom opposes it. The only CA NG units federalized by the Generalissimo are those in LA. The bulk of the CA NG remains under their state commander in chief the governor. There are no Army active duty armed forces units or personnel in LA.

The battalion of active duty combat Marines are ordered by the Generalissimo to guard the federal building in central LA and nothing more. The battalion that assumed positions on June 13 was rotated out on July 1st because they hated the assignment. The new Marine battalion deployed in rotation hates it as well and they will be rotated out soon too.

The NG has provided "perimeter security" to ICE agents at MacArthur Park and in the farm raid which means they stood outside the action looking in. They took no part in either ICE action inside their perimeter or in other ICE actions in the LA vicinity.

The worst aspect of this deployment of the CA NG and active duty Marines in LA is that ordinary citizens go about their daily business with armed Soldiers and Marines watching them. Neither force has arrest authority although they may detain a citizen until police arrive. This too is a strong negative but its occurrence is rare.

The deployment is set to expire in mid August although it can be extended. The deployment can and has been reduced as the Pentagon just ordered 2000 NG out of the city and returned to the command authority of the governor who will use them in a normal activity for them of fighting fires.
 
Tangmo said:
The battalion of active duty combat Marines are ordered by the Generalissimo to guard the federal building in central LA and nothing more.
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Didnt they go to McArthur park?
 
Str8shooter said:
Trump is using the military to stop riots. These rioters are attacking law enforcement officers and need to be arrested and put in prison. These people are not peaceful. They don't have the right to attack law enforcement, throw rocks at them, destroy their vehicles, ... Of course, those on the left think that all of this is alright. When these people attack law enforcement, isn't this an insurrection? That was a part of the argument on Jan. 6 by the left.
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There's no law or policy that says the military must or can stop anything that looks like a riot. Civil authorities need to lose control and governance over a locale for the military to be deployed.

In LA there was absolutely no indication the local or state authorities had lost their ability to control and govern the city or the small area of the city affected. Indeed additional local and state LEO were deployed. Neither the governor nor the mayor saw any need of the military.

In fact the National Guard and Marines did nothing because the NG arrived once local and state LEO had the situation calmed down. The Marine combat Infantry troops did not arrive for several more days because they had to be trained for civil disturbance control instead of to close on the enemy and kill him.

Your use of the word "insurrection" makes it meaningless, the same as your post itself is meaningless given all of it is try too hard nonsense.
 
AZRWinger said:
Wow, all you can do is sling insults.
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But he is right in this case.

map-protests-los-angeles.webp

That is the area of downtown Los Angles that was in question. Seven square blocks of huge Los Angles. Not the entire city. Just a small area around City Hall and some federal buildings [the cite of the protests [ICE's local HQ if I am not mistaking but I am not sure]. The Police Chief didn't want the National Guard, they certainly didn't want the Army. Nor did the Mayor or the Governor. Trump crammed them down their throats because he had a point to make, and as usual that point was all about him. What else would one expect from a pathological narcissist.
 
NolanVoyd said:
Didnt they go to McArthur park?
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No. The Marines did not go to MacArthur Park or to any ICE actions.

MacArthur park is a city and state property, not a federal property. The active duty Marines in the zone of the civil disturbance were assigned to the federal building and that is all they had to do. As we know, Posse Comitatus prohibits any federal armed force from doing police work.

It's the federalized National Guard units in LA who provide "perimeter security" to the ICE goons in their seize and arrest activity. Typically, about 90 NG Infantry and Military Police surround the area of an ICE action to "secure" it. That is, to advise civilians the area is temporarily closed to public entry. NG did this at MacArthur Park, at the farm raid and at one or two other ICE actions in the vicinity of LA.

Under the law and Posse Comitatus the active duty Marines justification to be there is to secure the federal building and properties which were never under any real threat or risk. NG troops stood around the outer area of ICE actions looking in. The troops can detain until civilian LEO arrive but not make arrests. In this whole time only the Marines have detained one guy who's an Army veteran who just wanted to get felt up by Marines.
 
NatMorton said:
No, I've never voted for Trump and regularly say I believe him to be unfit for office.
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Agreed. NM is not a Trump supporter. He is a Conservative. When Trump does something right I am going to say so. I am sure NM feels the same.

I support the bombing of Iranian nuclear production assets that can help produce nuclear weapons. I said so.
NatMorton said:
Where many of the regulars here on DP seem to get confused is when Trump supports a policy I support.
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On this one I think you are wrong. Thinking as a law enforcer my take on it is it takes a situation that is giving the local PD a headache and making it worse. All the facilitate the ego of Trump. Not cool Mr President. Not cool.
 
Tangmo said:
No. The Marines did not go to MacArthur Park or to any ICE actions.

MacArthur park is a city and state property, not a federal property. The active duty Marines in the zone of the civil disturbance were assigned to the federal building and that is all they had to do. As we know, Posse Comitatus prohibits any federal armed force from doing police work.
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I Hope you are right. This says otherwise.



Yes, Marines were deployed to MacArthur Park in Los Angeles as part of a larger operation involving federal agents and the National Guard. This deployment was part of a broader effort to address immigration enforcement in the city, following protests related to previous raids.

Details:
  • Context:
    The operation took place in a largely immigrant neighborhood and was met with resistance from local officials and activists who viewed it as a show of force.

  • Scale:
    The operation involved over 4,000 California National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines, with some deployed on military vehicles like Humvees and armored personnel carriers.
In early July 2025, a contingent of U.S. Marines, along with National Guard troops and federal agents, were briefly deployed to MacArthur Park in Los Angeles, California. The deployment, which coincided with an immigration enforcement operation, sparked controversy and condemnation from local officials.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
  • Context:
    The deployment occurred during a larger immigration crackdown in Los Angeles, with over 4,000 National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines already stationed in the city.
Tangmo said:
It's the federalized National Guard units in LA who provide "perimeter security" to the ICE goons in their seize and arrest activity. Typically, about 90 NG Infantry and Military Police surround the area of an ICE action to "secure" it. That is, to advise civilians the area is temporarily closed to public entry. NG did this at MacArthur Park, at the farm raid and at one or two other ICE actions in the vicinity of LA.

Under the law and Posse Comitatus the active duty Marines justification to be there is to secure the federal building and properties which were never under any real threat or risk. NG troops stood around the outer area of ICE actions looking in. The troops can detain until civilian LEO arrive but not make arrests. In this whole time only the Marines have detained one guy who's an Army veteran who just wanted to get felt up by Marines.
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ModernDiogenes said:
Agreed. NM is not a Trump supporter. He is a Conservative. When Trump does something right I am going to say so. I am sure NM feels the same.

I support the bombing of Iranian nuclear production assets that can help produce nuclear weapons. I said so.


On this one I think you are wrong. Thinking as a law enforcer my take on it is it takes a situation that is giving the local PD a headache and making it worse. All the facilitate the ego of Trump. Not cool Mr President. Not cool.
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You are somewhat contradicting yourself. You support the bombing of Iranian nuclear site, and so does Trump (clearly). By your assessment, are you not facilitating Trump's ego with your support?
 
NolanVoyd said:
I Hope you are right. This says otherwise.
Yes, Marines were deployed to MacArthur Park in Los Angeles as part of a larger operation involving federal agents and the National Guard. This deployment was part of a broader effort to address immigration enforcement in the city, following protests related to previous raids.
The operation involved over 4,000 California National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines, with some deployed on military vehicles like Humvees and armored personnel carriers/
The deployment occurred during a larger immigration crackdown in Los Angeles, with over 4,000 National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines already stationed in the city.
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MacArthur Park did not involve "over 4,000 California National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines."

These numbers refer to the fact there were "over 4,000 National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines already stationed in the city."

There is no support in your post for the statement, "Yes, Marines were deployed to MacArthur Park."

Your attachments to your dubious post are not links. They are logos that go nowhere, the same as your post goes nowhere. I'll stand corrected on the point of Marines at MacArthur Park if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong based on your unsourced and unlinked post. Many real media reports said the only troops at MacArthur Park were National Guard.
 
NatMorton said:
You are somewhat contradicting yourself. You support the bombing of Iranian nuclear site, and so does Trump (clearly). By your assessment, are you not facilitating Trump's ego with your support?
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No, because I do not support it because Trump did it. I support it because I think it was the appropriate action given the totality of the circumstances in this point in time.

Iran is a problem waiting to get worse. At the least we've slowed them down some.
 
Tangmo said:
MacArthur Park did not involve "over 4,000 California National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines."

These numbers refer to the fact there were "over 4,000 National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines already stationed in the city."

There is no support in your post for the statement, "Yes, Marines were deployed to MacArthur Park."

Your attachments to your dubious post are not links. They are logos that go nowhere, the same as your post goes nowhere. I'll stand corrected on the point of Marines at MacArthur Park if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong based on your unsourced and unlinked post. Many real media reports said the only troops at MacArthur Park were National Guard.
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Sorry for no link.

It was AI.

Which could explain the inaccuracy.

I thought the link was embedded.
 
NolanVoyd said:
Sorry for no link.

It was AI.

Which could explain the inaccuracy.

I thought the link was embedded.
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Obviously.

I never use AI in posts.

I answered your question in my post, then came your grossly disastrous reply based in AI. I see them as connected beforehand and as you indicate.
 
Tangmo said:
Obviously.

I never use AI in posts.

I answered your question in my post, then came your grossly disastrous reply based in AI. I see them as connected beforehand.
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When i said "i hope you are right, this says otherwise" that was "grossly disasterous"?

Ok.
 
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