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Trump files motion seeking independent review of docs seized during FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago

sigh.
Why do you believe I hate Trump?

Because of the stuff you post. You've repeatedly and repeatedly stated that he has no right to these documents. The only place you are getting this from is the Trump hate media. I give you and equally if not mor plausible explanation and you accuse me of playing games.

One can disagree with someone without hating them.

There is a process for former President's to get access to Presidential record they helped create. Seems Trump didn't follow the process.

There is also a process for documents to get into the archives. That Trump and the NARA were working through., When Biden and his goons (yes goons) at the FBI and the DOJ got involved and executed an unprecedented raid by dozens of armed FBI agents on the private home of a former President, the primary political opponent of the current President, over documents the former President has had for 18 months, in a secure location, guarded by the secret service 24/7.

Yes, I will keep repeating this until the context of this raid is truly appreciated.
 
There is also a process for documents to get into the archives.

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At the end of the President's term, Presidential Records are turned over the the NARA.

It's pretty simple.

WW
 
Because of the stuff you post. You've repeatedly and repeatedly stated that he has no right to these documents. The only place you are getting this from is the Trump hate media. I give you and equally if not mor plausible explanation and you accuse me of playing games.



There is also a process for documents to get into the archives. That Trump and the NARA were working through., When Biden and his goons (yes goons) at the FBI and the DOJ got involved and executed an unprecedented raid by dozens of armed FBI agents on the private home of a former President, the primary political opponent of the current President, over documents the former President has had for 18 months, in a secure location, guarded by the secret service 24/7.

Yes, I will keep repeating this until the context of this raid is truly appreciated.
actually, Rawley I looked up and read the PRA. You should try it some time. :giggle:

Sorry, you need to read the PRA again and the process. Trump did not follow the process. NARA has tried for months to get Trump to comply.
Why do you defend someone who admits they should not have had some of the records?

I don't hate Trump. I just "believe" Trump violated the PRA laws.
 
Well they aren't Presidential Records until the Archive has them, are they?

Is this your new excuse?

Did some guy on your AM radio feed you that, or was it some guy posting a YouTube video?

He took them before the Archives go them so therefore they’re not presidential records???????

Astoundingly stupid!!!! You really have to be desperate to excuse your failed fuhrer yet again to make a fool out of yourself with something like this!
 
actually, Rawley I looked up and read the PRA. You should try it some time. :giggle:

Sorry, you need to read the PRA again and the process. Trump did not follow the process. NARA has tried for months to get Trump to comply.
Why do you defend someone who admits they should not have had some of the records?

I don't hate Trump. I just "believe" Trump violated the PRA laws.
If you can drop the condescending bullshit please cite the portion of PRA process that Trump failed to follow, from your detailed reading and understanding the PRA
 
Because of the stuff you post. You've repeatedly and repeatedly stated that he has no right to these documents. The only place you are getting this from is the Trump hate media. I give you and equally if not mor plausible explanation and you accuse me of playing games.



There is also a process for documents to get into the archives. That Trump and the NARA were working through., When Biden and his goons (yes goons) at the FBI and the DOJ got involved and executed an unprecedented raid by dozens of armed FBI agents on the private home of a former President, the primary political opponent of the current President, over documents the former President has had for 18 months, in a secure location, guarded by the secret service 24/7.

Yes, I will keep repeating this until the context of this raid is truly appreciated.

There is no evidence that trump and his henchment were working through any process at all. None.

You made it up, or some nutter fed it to you.

Trump took the stuff. Didn’t want to give it back.

Gave some of it back after he was called out.

Gave some more back after he got called out again.

Said it was “mine” (no process).

Ignored a subpoena (that must have been your imaginary “process”.).

And got served with a warrant.
 
He has a new excuse. We really need a sticky at the top of this forum with all his excuses listed out.

Now some of the files are covered by executive privilege..you know those fake planted fbi documents
Except he lost the power of EP the day he left office. Only Biden can declare EP and he waived it.
 
Except he lost the power of EP the day he left office. Only Biden can declare EP and he waived it.
Oh I know. Every excuse he throws out ****s him honestly.
 
If you can drop the condescending bullshit please cite the portion of PRA process that Trump failed to follow, from your detailed reading and understanding the PRA
I have already in this and other threads regarding Trump's mishandling of items.

Using your style of response. Go onto the NARA sites and look up Presidential Records.
 
You could be right in all that you say.
But your rantings and ravings will do nothing to keep him from running again.

I do not want him to be president again.
Someone has to come up with the legal means to keep him from running in 2024.

Trump is an expert at playing the victim, all narcissists learn that trick early. Therefore, he will always view the reasonable repercussions from his life of criminality as excessive. He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special.

But, you're right. No matter how correct my opinions are about his low morals, he thirsts for power and he's extremely dangerous. He's only dangerous, however, because of the retarded rabble who hang on his every word. We still have the appearance of democracy and that is his path to regaining power. Ironically, his followers will use democracy to create an autocracy. Their violence on 1-6 was just plan B, after the vote, they didn't really value in the first place, failed them.

I feel as hopeless as I ever have about the American system. I fear that if we don't abandon the two-party system, democracy will be lost. The current state, where democracy can be used to undermine itself is not encouraging.
 
Trump is an expert at playing the victim, all narcissists learn that trick early. Therefore, he will always view the reasonable repercussions from his life of criminality as excessive. He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special.

But, you're right. No matter how correct my opinions are about his low morals, he thirsts for power and he's extremely dangerous. He's only dangerous, however, because of the retarded rabble who hang on his every word. We still have the appearance of democracy and that is his path to regaining power. Ironically, his followers will use democracy to create an autocracy. Their violence on 1-6 was just plan B, after the vote, they didn't really value in the first place, failed them.

I feel as hopeless as I ever have about the American system. I fear that if we don't abandon the two-party system, democracy will be lost. The current state, where democracy can be used to undermine itself is not encouraging.

He is a textbook narcissistic sociopath. They are very very dangerous people. Inevitably they leave a trail of destruction behind them.
 
Trump is an expert at playing the victim, all narcissists learn that trick early. Therefore, he will always view the reasonable repercussions from his life of criminality as excessive. He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special.

But, you're right. No matter how correct my opinions are about his low morals, he thirsts for power and he's extremely dangerous. He's only dangerous, however, because of the retarded rabble who hang on his every word. We still have the appearance of democracy and that is his path to regaining power. Ironically, his followers will use democracy to create an autocracy. Their violence on 1-6 was just plan B, after the vote, they didn't really value in the first place, failed them.

I feel as hopeless as I ever have about the American system. I fear that if we don't abandon the two-party system, democracy will be lost. The current state, where democracy can be used to undermine itself is not encouraging.
you wrote:
"He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special."

You wrote that suggesting you do not understand why more than 70 million of your fellow countrymen feel Trump is better than the elitist establishment currently running the government in D.C. Are they all nuts or are you just unaware?
No wonder the Dems want to run against Trump again given that senile Joe beat him the first time.
 
Is this your new excuse?

Did some guy on your AM radio feed you that, or was it some guy posting a YouTube video?

He took them before the Archives go them so therefore they’re not presidential records???????

Astoundingly stupid!!!! You really have to be desperate to excuse your failed fuhrer yet again to make a fool out of yourself with something like this!
I've had him on ignore since shortly after I joined. It's hilarious that I can know what he posted by the replies. Lol.
 
you wrote:
"He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special."

You wrote that suggesting you do not understand why more than 70 million of your fellow countrymen feel Trump is better than the elitist establishment currently running the government in D.C. Are they all nuts or are you just unaware?
No wonder the Dems want to run against Trump again given that senile Joe beat him the first time.

Trump is an elitist in the truist sense of the word. He‘s the spoiled narcissitic son of a crooked real estate developer from Queens who always carried a chip on his shoulder. He still does.

He may speak pitch perfect Archie Bunker to millions of little Archies, but he‘s not one of them. Never was.

He always wanted to be, or at least be taken seriously, by real elites. But he never was.

His open vulgarity, His obvious corruption, and his own obvious ignorance all got in the way.

The only people he ever fooled with this “lifestyles of the rich and famous” act, were the folks out there in trump nation.

No one in Manhattan ever took him seriously.

No one in Washington did either. They don’t now.

They fear him. But only because he can use his lowbrow appeal to spoil things for everyone else.

He was never any kind of a reformer, or moral character.

”Drain the swamp” was a slogan for morons to repeat. Not a real thing. Far from “draining the swamp”. His team spent most of their reign trying to cash in on it, and demand bakseesh from it.

And an “elite” is anyone more intelligent than Donald Trump. Which is most people.

The bankers rejected him because he doesn’t pay his bills and ran every one of his big deals into the ground.

The Russians used him to launder money, and later used him in their campaign to divide the US and hamstring it as a world leader.

A host of his own henchmen used him for cover while they lined their own pockets (we havent’ even gotten to many of them yet).

And now, he’s reduced to ranting on his social network, conning ordinary folks into throwing money at a self proclaimed billionaire.

And, of course, he wont’ admit to losing. He never did. Even when he lost decisively.
 
Trump is an elitist in the truist sense of the word. He‘s the spoiled narcissitic son of a crooked real estate developer from Queens who always carried a chip on his shoulder. He still does.

He may speak pitch perfect Archie Bunker to millions of little Archies, but he‘s not one of them. Never was.

He always wanted to be, or at least be taken seriously, by real elites. But he never was.

His open vulgarity, His obvious corruption, and his own obvious ignorance all got in the way.

The only people he ever fooled with this “lifestyles of the rich and famous” act, were the folks out there in trump nation.

No one in Manhattan ever took him seriously.

No one in Washington did either. They don’t now.

They fear him. But only because he can use his lowbrow appeal to spoil things for everyone else.

He was never any kind of a reformer, or moral character.

”Drain the swamp” was a slogan for morons to repeat. Not a real thing. Far from “draining the swamp”. His team spent most of their reign trying to cash in on it, and demand bakseesh from it.

And an “elite” is anyone more intelligent than Donald Trump. Which is most people.

The bankers rejected him because he doesn’t pay his bills and ran every one of his big deals into the ground.

The Russians used him to launder money, and later used him in their campaign to divide the US and hamstring it as a world leader.

A host of his own henchmen used him for cover while they lined their own pockets (we havent’ even gotten to many of them yet).

And now, he’s reduced to ranting on his social network, conning ordinary folks into throwing money at a self proclaimed billionaire.

And, of course, he wont’ admit to losing. He never did. Even when he lost decisively.
OK Fitz,
Did you just write all that off the top of your head.?
Or did you go into your HateTrump folder and pull it out from one of your previous anti-Trump rants.?
It was quite good.
But that's what a populist does no matter how rich he is.
And people believe and follow him because they believe he is for them.
 
OK Fitz,
Did you just write all that off the top of your head.?
Or did you go into your HateTrump folder and pull it out from one of your previous anti-Trump rants.?
It was quite good.
But that's what a populist does no matter how rich he is.
And people believe and follow him because they believe he is for them.

No, I wrote it off the top of my head.

I knew everything I needed to know about him in 1983.

Trump isn’t a populist. Populists try to be men of the people.

But he understands white resentment and knows that racism is a core value in the crowd that follows him. And he promoted that every chance he got.

Trump is not that. He won’t even take his gloves off to shake your hand.

Trump is an elite wannabe. But his understanding of what makes a true leader, or plutocrat is something he does not have, and never will.

Character.

Instead he nurses the chip on his shoulder and gets his mob to identify with it.
 
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OK Fitz,
Did you just write all that off the top of your head.?
Or did you go into your HateTrump folder and pull it out from one of your previous anti-Trump rants.?
It was quite good.
But that's what a populist does no matter how rich he is.
And people believe and follow him because they believe he is for them.
But he's not. That's the point. Meaning his populism is fake. A hoax
 
But he's not. That's the point. Meaning his populism is fake. A hoax
Over 70 million voters taken in by a hoax. What a showman!
Sort of like half the country hanging on Rachel Maddow's and Schiff's every word on the Russia hoax waiting for the hammer to drop on Trump courtesy of the Mueller report which ended up being a nothing burger. You mean that kind of hoax.?

And it could be that that many people may do it again.
That should care the bejeezus out of every Democrat who doesn't have a hope in hell for Biden in 2024.
 
Over 70 million voters taken in by a hoax. What a showman!
Yep. Sad, isn't it. Trump doesn't even like his supporters much less care about them. He's a fascist, not a populist.
Sort of like half the country hanging on Rachel Maddow's and Schiff's every word on the Russia hoax waiting for the hammer to drop on Trump courtesy of the Mueller report which ended up being a nothing burger. You mean that kind of hoax.?
That was real.
And it could be that that many people may do it again.
That should care the bejeezus out of every Democrat who doesn't have a hope in hell for Biden in 2024.
Yeah, yeah. Good luck with that.
 
you wrote:
"He's an elitist in the truest sense of the word, feeling like he's above the law and the consequences that we peasants must endure when we do wrong. He's special."

You wrote that suggesting you do not understand why more than 70 million of your fellow countrymen feel Trump is better than the elitist establishment currently running the government in D.C. Are they all nuts or are you just unaware?

No, they're not nuts, they are afraid. And like mental illness, fear can make us abandon our principles and critical thought, just to feel safe. That's why the conservatives always slide in to authoritarian fascism. Death squads, ironically, make some folks feel safe.

When you complain of the "elitist establishment", as if Trump is not balls deep in it, the question about who is nuts or unaware becomes mine. If you want to build up the strawman that the establishment is somehow separate from a billionaire, TV personality, politician, you look silly. Trump IS the problem, not the answer.

Meet me in the middle, without either of us having to declare a party or accept blame for what either party has done. As just two patriotic citizens talking, certainly you don't think that, objectively, Trump is a noble or virtuous person, right? You can't believe that, right, even if you like tax cuts and guns? How can our bullshit detectors be so differently calibrated? There's a disconnect and I'd love to find it.


No wonder the Dems want to run against Trump again given that senile Joe beat him the first time.

The dems don't want to run against Trump, they think he should be in prison and I agree with them. "Senile Joe" is smarter and more moral than Traitor Trump any day. He'll have the last laugh.
 
If you can drop the condescending bullshit please cite the portion of PRA process that Trump failed to follow, from your detailed reading and understanding the PRA
Why you don't read it, assuming that you can, and tell us where exactly the PRA says Trump can take sole possession of any and all documents not generated by him, the White House or it's relevant subsidiary agencies. You're the one the pushing that claim. The burden of proof is yours.
 
OK Fitz,
Did you just write all that off the top of your head.?
Or did you go into your HateTrump folder and pull it out from one of your previous anti-Trump rants.?
It was quite good.
But that's what a populist does no matter how rich he is.
And people believe and follow him because they believe he is for them.
If they believe that they're idiots. People like myself who reside near NY and have come to know Trump over years know that he's the ultimate narcistic conman. We just couldn't believe that much of the rest of the country did not seem to know this about him. He's not for anyone but himself. He couldn't care less about the average American. It's has never been America First with him. As far as he is concerned it has always been, and always will be, Trump first. And **** everybody and everything else.
 
If they believe that they're idiots. People like myself who reside near NY and have come to know Trump over years know that he's the ultimate narcistic conman. We just couldn't believe that much of the rest of the country did not seem to know this about him. He's not for anyone but himself. He couldn't care less about the average American. It's has never been America First with him. As far as he is concerned it has always been, and always will be, Trump first. And **** everybody and everything else.
Millions of Americans benefited from Trump's economic policies right up until the pandemic hit. All races; all classes; all genders.
People believe Trump worked for them from 2017 thru 2020.

You can argue against that all you want but you cannot dispute their faith in him.

However, there were more people like you voting against him because you certainly weren't voting for a senile old man.
 
Why you don't read it, assuming that you can, and tell us where exactly the PRA says Trump can take sole possession of any and all documents not generated by him, the White House or it's relevant subsidiary agencies. You're the one the pushing that claim. The burden of proof is yours.

Where is it written that Trump violated any laws governing documents taken from the White House?


But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.

The Trump Warrant Had No Legal Basis

A former president’s rights under the Presidential Records Act trump the statutes the FBI cited to justify the Mar-a-Lago raid.​


By David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey
Aug. 22, 2022 12:51 pm ET
The materials to be seized included “any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021”—i.e., during Mr. Trump’s term of office. Virtually all the materials at Mar-a-Lago are likely to fall within this category. Federal law gives Mr. Trump a right of access to them. His possession of them is entirely consistent with that right, and therefore lawful, regardless of the statutes the FBI cites in its warrant.

Those statutes are general in their text and application. But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. It has long been the Supreme Court position, as stated in Morton v. Mancari (1974), that “where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment.” The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.
The PRA dramatically changed the rules regarding ownership and treatment of presidential documents. Presidents from George Washington through Jimmy Carter treated their White House papers as their personal property, and neither Congress nor the courts disputed that. In Nixon v. U.S. (1992), the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia held that Richard Nixon had a right to compensation for his presidential papers, which the government had retained under the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974 (which applied only to him). “Custom and usage evidences the kind of mutually explicit understandings that are encompassed within the constitutional notion of ‘property’ protected by the Fifth Amendment,” the judges declared.
The PRA lays out detailed requirements for how the archivist is to administer the records, handle privilege claims, make the records public, and impose restrictions on access. Notably, it doesn’t address the process by which a former president’s records are physically to be turned over to the archivist, or set any deadline, leaving this matter to be negotiated between the archivist and the former president.

 
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