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Trump fan targets MAGA foes with menace – and gets away with it

Loulit01

Loulit01

Pronouns: thee, thy, thine
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Tirades like Giglio’s are increasingly common. Threats to judges, members of Congress, election officials and other public servants are at or near record highs, according to government data. Reuters has previously documented how Trump’s attempt to overturn the 2020 election unleashed a deluge of threats from his supporters, many of them violent and resulting in federal investigations. Scores of people have been arrested, including more than a dozen for threatening election workers.

But the messages sent by Giglio occupy a legal gray area, making them harder to prosecute. The Constitution’s free-speech guarantees cover all but the most serious threats. Police and security agencies can try to stop perpetrators with personal visits and stern warnings. They typically can’t file charges, however, unless there’s an explicit, direct threat that conveys intent to cause harm – a line that can be subject to interpretation.

“Nobody – not even prosecutors and judges – knows exactly where the line is, and if you’re somebody who wants to make threats you can take advantage of that,” said Jared Carter, a Vermont Law School professor specializing in constitutional free-speech issues. Giglio and those like him appear to understand the risk of arrest and have “become more sophisticated” at testing the boundaries of free speech, added Carter.

Trump and the republican party have a lot to answer for.
 
As a poll worker in my state my experience has been most people thank us, some profusely.
Have had a couple of folks get upset because they were at the wrong polling station, my county has recently added a bunch.
I have had one or two people make comments about the equipment and it's vulnerability to wireless hacking. I inform them that the tabulation machines used do not have any wireless communication ability. They are programed using a dedicated interface into a serial port. The systems are audited regularly for compliance with all applicable standards.

I was loaned out to one precinct and the lady that normally worked it greeted me with the comment it was wonderful to have a big man present. I though this odd and asked why. She told me that their normal crew is all female. They have one citizen that every time he votes he is hostile towards the poll workers, regardless of how politely they treat him and that they dread when he comes in. I told her to let me know when he shows up and I will keep an eye on him.

Later in the afternoon she made the signal and I kept an eye on him. He did nothing unusual, was actually pleasant. I asked the lady afterwards about it and she said that was the first time in all the years she had worked the poll that he was civil to her.
 
Loulit01 said:
Tirades like Giglio’s are increasingly common. Threats to judges, members of Congress, election officials and other public servants are at or near record highs, according to government data. Reuters has previously documented how Trump’s attempt to overturn the 2020 election unleashed a deluge of threats from his supporters, many of them violent and resulting in federal investigations. Scores of people have been arrested, including more than a dozen for threatening election workers.

But the messages sent by Giglio occupy a legal gray area, making them harder to prosecute. The Constitution’s free-speech guarantees cover all but the most serious threats. Police and security agencies can try to stop perpetrators with personal visits and stern warnings. They typically can’t file charges, however, unless there’s an explicit, direct threat that conveys intent to cause harm – a line that can be subject to interpretation.

“Nobody – not even prosecutors and judges – knows exactly where the line is, and if you’re somebody who wants to make threats you can take advantage of that,” said Jared Carter, a Vermont Law School professor specializing in constitutional free-speech issues. Giglio and those like him appear to understand the risk of arrest and have “become more sophisticated” at testing the boundaries of free speech, added Carter.

Trump and the republican party have a lot to answer for.
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This is a helluva' article! Thanks for posting it!

I tend to believe eventually this nutcase is going to end-up with legal problems.

As if he's not bad enough, look at the garbage that supports him:

CQDIVEFL4JAC5ONW5ACFXAJUTY.jpg
 
Athanasius68 said:
So we have had two actual assassination attempts against Mr. Trump,
Click to expand...
There has only been one attempt. One too many, but we are a gun culture nation…


Athanasius68 said:
It’s not clear why we are concerned about theoretical dangers of MAGA.
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Theoretical? Project 2025. “Dictator on day one” Lots more.
Actual? 4 years of Trump chaos and corruption. Jan 6th. Lots more.
It’s not clear how you can pretend not to see it.
 
BabaVoss said:
There has only been one attempt. One too many, but we are a gun culture nation…
Click to expand...

Three
BabaVoss said:
Theoretical? Project 2025. “Dictator on day one” Lots more.
Actual? 4 years of Trump chaos and corruption. Jan 6th. Lots more.
It’s not clear how you can pretend not to see it.
Click to expand...

The subject here was political violence.
Again, the actual violence ain't coming from 'MAGA.'
 
"...[these MAGAs are] careful to avoid language suggesting they’ll actually carry out violence – a key threshold for prosecution."​

Yeah, it's assholish but not a "threat" to say "I hope you die." But I'm sure there are plenty of MAGAs out there making actual threats to anyone opposing Trump or holding him accountable, which are felonies, and I hope their threats blow up in their faces.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Its not clear why we are concerned about theoretical dangers of MAGA.
Click to expand...
1/6
The plot to kidnap Gretchen Witmer.
The armed invasion of the Michigan statehouse (along with a few others)

I could go on if you like.
 
I would seriously take any illegal immigrant over a magat. Seriously…
 
poweRob said:
Stay safe.

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America’s motto nowadays. There are those the law should bind but not protect and there are those the law should protect but not bind.
 
Corbell said:
The plot to kidnap witmer was more fbi agents than maga.
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Gawd you live in a corrupt shit-hole. I bet most Americans are glad they don't live in the country you live in. Most Americans live in a pretty damned good country.
Are judges crooked in the corrupt crap-hole you live in? I bet even your elections are crooked!
 
bomberfox said:
America’s motto nowadays. There are those the law should bind but not protect and there are those the law should protect but not bind.
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But but bOTh siDES!!!!! are doing it equaleeeze!!!!1!!1!!! /s
 
Grand Mal said:
Gawd you live in a corrupt shit-hole. I bet most Americans are glad they don't live in the country you live in. Most Americans live in a pretty damned good country.
Are judges crooked in the corrupt crap-hole you live in? I bet even your elections are crooked!
Click to expand...


More fbi agents than militia members by the end.
 
Loulit01 said:
Tirades like Giglio’s are increasingly common. Threats to judges, members of Congress, election officials and other public servants are at or near record highs, according to government data. Reuters has previously documented how Trump’s attempt to overturn the 2020 election unleashed a deluge of threats from his supporters, many of them violent and resulting in federal investigations. Scores of people have been arrested, including more than a dozen for threatening election workers.

But the messages sent by Giglio occupy a legal gray area, making them harder to prosecute. The Constitution’s free-speech guarantees cover all but the most serious threats. Police and security agencies can try to stop perpetrators with personal visits and stern warnings. They typically can’t file charges, however, unless there’s an explicit, direct threat that conveys intent to cause harm – a line that can be subject to interpretation.

“Nobody – not even prosecutors and judges – knows exactly where the line is, and if you’re somebody who wants to make threats you can take advantage of that,” said Jared Carter, a Vermont Law School professor specializing in constitutional free-speech issues. Giglio and those like him appear to understand the risk of arrest and have “become more sophisticated” at testing the boundaries of free speech, added Carter.

Trump and the republican party have a lot to answer for.
Click to expand...

"Testing the boundaries of free speech?" Nonsense.

"There are a host of decisions and laws regarding speech that is not protected: obscenity, fraud, child pornography, speech integral to illegal conduct, speech that incites imminent lawless action, speech that violates intellectual property law, true threats, false statements of fact, and commercial speech such as advertising. Defamation that causes harm to reputation is a tort and also a category which is not protected as free speech." There are others listed in this cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions

If you or anyone else believes they are a victim of unprotected speech related to a tort or a crime, simply seek information from either a tort lawyer or if you believe it is criminal, the police or local prosecutors office.
 
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Corbell said:
More fbi agents than militia members by the end.
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Might be why it was foiled, d'ya reckon?
Gawd, the FBI has always been the sworn nemesis of the far left but just let them focus on a couple of right-wing criminals and they become a tool of the Democratic Party.
Even after they did what they could on Trump's behalf by announcing two weeks, two weeks, before the election they were 'reopening' the investigation into Clinton's e-mails.
How'd that reopened investigation work out? I remember how the election worked out but not the investigation.
 
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Grand Mal said:
Might be why it was foiled, d'ya reckon?
Gawd, the FBI has always been the sworn nemesis of the far left but just let them focus on a couple of right-wing criminals and they become a tool of the Democratic Party.
Even after they did what they could on Trump's behalf by announcing two weeks, two weeks, before the election they were 'reopening' the investigation into Clinton's e-mails.
How'd that reopened investigation work out? I remember how the election worked out but not the investigation.
Click to expand...


If it was not for the fbi agents and assets involved, there would have been no plot. Hell the previous leadership was driven from the organization by the new host of hard core, and aggressive "recruits".


They were arrested for crimes that occurred, that were not planned, until AFTER they were out of the group.

That's a massive injustice.
 
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