Trump DOJ is looking at ways to ban transgender Americans from owning guns

[Cope]

Obviously we need gun reform and trans people are not the problem.

My position is all gun owners should be subject to a license similar to drivers license. And this requires a one-two day gun safety course and a psychological exam. Then make people renew it every x number of years. This really is common sense. Now it won't stop all shootings but it would be preventative measures against the wrong people getting guns.

We abhor blaming a subset of people for things. It must be something in the water.
We have clearly defined lines that show data for differing groups, but oh no, if you want to identify problem areas then to address those groups, the people come alive with protestation because it isn't 'fair'

 

[Lursa]

Of course it is a slippery slope.

If a constitutional right can be stripped for being a felon, what other reasons can they be stripped.

It is the exact definition of 'slippery slope'.

What they are is a human having a mental impairment. And I think we can all agree those with mental impairments do not need to own guns.

How does being trans impair them in life in any way, beyond something society may impose on them?

 

[j brown's body]

Focusing on the mentally ill is a waste of time.

"The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.

Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, other risk factors, such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization."

Link

 

[RaleBulgarian]

It is. Any suggestion to the contrary is purely political.

Being transgendered isn’t a mental illness.

Any claim otherwise is purely biased bullshit.

 

[j brown's body]

 

[NolanVoyd]

Yes. It is. There is no scientific world in which believing you are the opposite sex is not a mental disorder.

No, its not a mental health didorder im the real scientific world.

Again, "Being transgender is not a mental disorder. Major medical and psychiatric organizations, including the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA), do not classify a transgender identity as a mental illness."


But if you want to remove their right to bear arms, what will it be based on? Your feelings about it, or an official diagnosis from a liscensed psychologist under guidlines from the American Psychiatric Acciciation?

I mean if its just based on feelings, anybody could be next.

Any suggestion that the cultish support of Trump isnt a mental disorder is wrong.........if we are basing it on feelings you lose your rights next.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Just require a doctor's note saying that the person is psychology stable.

IMO, the invasion of personal privacy wouldn’t come close to passing constitutional scrutiny.

 

[Napoleon]

No, its not a mental health didorder im the real scientific world.

It is. It is wholly unscientific to assert that someone so psychology disconnected from reality they they genuinely believe they are the opposite sex is not a mental disorder.

Again, "Being transgender is not a mental disorder.

It is.

But if you want to remove their right to bear arms, what will it be based on?

I’ve already told you.

 

[Cope]

How does being trans impair them in life in any way, beyond something society may impose on them?

Permanently believing you are something you are not...is text book definition of mental disorder.

 

[Lursa]

Focusing on the mentally ill is a waste of time.

"The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.

Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, other risk factors, such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization."

Link

The "mass shootings" in the study include gang and other crime-related shootings.

When it comes to mass shootings such as in schools, bowling alleys, bars, grocery stores, workplaces, that's a different category. Do you agree?

In those shootings there is a high rate of mental dysfunction and mental illness. I'm not sure where that line is drawn medically but the point re: mental illness and violence is actually that it's related backwards:

It's not about how most mentally ill people arent violent (true)...​

​

It's that a high % of mass shootings are committed by mentally ill/mentally dysfunctional people.​

There's a distinction there...agreed?

 

[Lursa]

Permanently believing you are something you are not...is text book definition of mental disorder.

You didnt answer my question. Please do.

Gay people "believe" they are gay...millions of poorly informed people still believe that's a choice. Are gay people "really gay?" How do they prove it? Or do they just have a mental disorder? Are they mentally impaired?

 

[NolanVoyd]

It is.

No, its not.

What is it you arent understanding about this......"Major medical and psychiatric organizations, including the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA), do not classify a transgender identity as a mental illness."

It is wholly unscientific to assert that someone so psychology disconnected from reality they they genuinely believe they are the opposite sex is not a mental disorder.

Its wholly unscientific to assert they are when the actual scientific pschiatric organizations say its not.

It is.

I’ve already told you.

You told me its science. I proved you wrong on that......which leaves your feelings.

 

[Napoleon]

No, its not.

What is it you arent understanding about this......"Major medical and psychiatric organizations, including the World Health Organization (WHO) and the American Psychiatric Association (APA), do not classify a transgender identity as a mental illness."



Its wholly unscientific to assert they are when the actual scientific pschiatric organizations say its not.

You told me its science. I proved you wring on that......which leaves your feelings.

No, you appeal to the unscientific opinion of the WHO and APA.

 

[NolanVoyd]

No, you appeal to the unscientific opinion of the WHO and APA.

LOl.

The position of the worlds actual scientific psychiatric organizations is "unscientific opinion", but your unsupported opinion is scientific??????

Thats funny.

Do you think your opinion is good enough reason to take peoples rights away?

 

[Napoleon]

LOl.

The position of the worlds actual scientific psychiatric organizations is "unscientific opinion", but your unsupported opinion is scientific??????

Thats funny.

Do you think your opinion is good enough reason to take peoples rights away?

The position of the WHO and APA has no scientific merit. The inherent insanity of the trans is a good enough reason to take their guns. Doing so will save lives.

 

[j brown's body]

The "mass shootings" in the study include gang and other crime-related shootings.

When it comes to mass shootings such as in schools, bowling alleys, bars, grocery stores, workplaces, that's a different category. Do you agree?

In those shootings there is a high rate of mental dysfunction and mental illness. I'm not sure where that line is drawn medically but the point re: mental illness and violence is actually that it's related backwards:

It's not about how most mentally ill people arent violent (true)...​

​

It's that a high % of mass shootings are committed by mentally ill/mentally dysfunctional people.​

There's a distinction there...agreed?

The study is on mass shootings, not gang and crime-related shootings.

 

[j brown's body]

The position of the WHO and APA has no scientific merit. The inherent insanity of the trans is a good enough reason to take their guns.

What's the lawyer say?

 

[Lursa]

The study is on mass shootings, not gang and crime-related shootings.

The study quoted included gang and crime-related shootings with multiple victims. Does this clarify my statement? Do you agree they should be excluded from consideration when discussing mental illness?

 

[Cope]

You didnt answer my question. Please do.

Gay people "believe" they are gay...millions of poorly informed people still believe that's a choice. Are gay people "really gay?" How do they prove it? Or do they just have a mental disorder? Are they mentally impaired?

Gay and trans are wildly different things.

Gay is simply an attraction. Trans believe they are something they are biologically not.

Here is the litmus test:

Your son wakes up, and decides he's a dog and tells you he's a dog, and then barks at you to communicate. And never stops.
Do you find him to be a normal kid?
Going through a phase?
Or something might be wrong with him because he REALLY does think he's a dog?

 

[j brown's body]

The study quoted included gang and crime-related shootings with multiple victims. Does this clarify my statement? Do you agree they should be excluded from consideration when discussing mental illness?

One incident?

There are studies debunking the mental illness-violence connection all over the place. I'm surprised people still make it.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4211925/

 

[Lursa]

Gay and trans are wildly different things.

Yes

Gay is simply an attraction. Trans believe they are something they are biologically not.

??? No, there's a biological component for both. If it's merely a 'belief,' then gays biologically cannot reproduce. There's no difference for trans if they 'believe' but arent biologically the same.

In any case, in both cases, they are driven by biological influences. Sexual attraction is too.

Here is the litmus test:

Your son wakes up, and decides he's a dog and tells you he's a dog, and then barks at you to communicate. And never stops.
Do you find him to be 'normal'?

Seems like that works for gay and trans. So, you didnt make any point here.

 

[NolanVoyd]

The position of the WHO and APA has no scientific merit. The inherent insanity of the trans is a good enough reason to take their guns. Doing so will save lives.

The position of the worlds actual scientific psychiatric organizations is "unscientific opinion", but your unsupported opinion is scientific??????

ts just too funny.

You be you.

Is thr inherent insanity of cultishly supporting Trump good enough reason tp take their guns away?

Do we need science from official groups to do that, or are opinions enough to take rights away?

 

[Lursa]

One incident?

What "one incident?" Did you view the study? Was there more than one incident? Are you just trying to avoid the discussion? If so, just say so and I wont waste my time.

 

[Luce]

Welcome to the pro-2A side.

Except, of course, when it comes to those people, right?

 

[j brown's body]

Interesting.

"Even mass shooters, who might seem most likely to be driven by mental illness, don’t necessarily suffer from major psychiatric disorders. Arguably one of the best such reports on the topic, conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, found that only 25% of such assailants had a diagnosed mental illness. Although it is difficult to obtain precise data on the gun-prohibited status of every mass shooter, less than 5% of these individuals had a record of a gun-disqualifying mental health adjudication, such as an involuntary commitment to a mental health facility."

Link