• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump announces on Truth Social that the U.S. has successfully attacked Iran

Who do you think is coming to Iran's aid? Nobody. Iran is alone in this mess and they are going to stop now or suffer a horrible end.
  • Russia and China: Iran's alliances with Russia and China have deepened in recent years, particularly in areas like energy, trade, and military cooperation. These powers have previously supported Iran against punitive measures at the UN Security Council. However, their willingness to provide direct military support to Iran in conflicts with Israel or the US appears limited at this time, focusing instead on condemning Israeli actions and promoting diplomatic solutions.
 
I won't do shit until you provide the evidence of your alleged event. Or you can just keep posting dodges and I'll have to conclude that you have no evidence.


 
Uh, yeah. Definitely. If reports are true, he just took out the nuclear capability of the world's foremost sponsor of terror, without any boots on the ground or lives lost.

So wars of aggression are okay now?

I guess they always were considering Trumpers support for Russia.
 
Civilians can indeed be lawfully killed during war, and when one side uses perfidy - as HAMAS does - the Laws of Armed Conflict correctly considers them responsible for the civcas that results.

Great. We found the apologist loophole. Any obvious Israeli war crime, Israel accepts no blame.

How do you blame Hamas for Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian prisoners in prison I wonder?
 
I still find it unbelievable that all three carriers happened to be at sea when the attack happened. Don't carriers usually have a carrier group surrounding them? From things I've seen, I think Roosevelt invited the attack by moving our Pacific fleet to pearl harbor.

They did have their escorts with them. They weren’t alone.
 
Is Trump proud of himself today for getting our country involved in another Middle East war, and the enemy can do enormous damage. Americans will die because of what Trump did today.
Axios reports, "Iran's parliament has endorsed closing the Strait of Hormuz, a vital oil transit point off its coast, but analysts are skeptical about the threat from a body without authority to close the strait.

Why it matters: Impeding the strait would likely bring a massive spike in oil prices that would flow through to U.S. consumers.



  • The narrow channel between Iran and Oman is the chokepoint for a quarter of the world's seaborne oil trade — and around one-fifth of all oil movements.
  • Without diplomatic concessions from Tehran, the front-month Brent crude oil price could open "meaningfully above its $77.01/bbl Friday close," ClearView Energy Partners said in a Sunday note.
Catch up quick: The threat is among the initial responses to yesterday's U.S. strikes on Iran's nuclear sites.

  • Trying to block the strait would be the first time that the Israel-Iran conflict meaningfully affects global oil flows.
  • Authority to do so rests with regime security officials and not parliament.
 
Axios reports, "Iran's parliament has endorsed closing the Strait of Hormuz, a vital oil transit point off its coast, but analysts are skeptical about the threat from a body without authority to close the strait.

Why it matters: Impeding the strait would likely bring a massive spike in oil prices that would flow through to U.S. consumers.


And there you have it...then the American oil producers could gain much more market share and raise their prices...and profits.

Oh MAGA, you are such suckers. We all pay for your suckage, but it's your doing.
 
Yeah so we should be afraid of threats from Iran and stand down because they threaten us. They've been threatening us since 1979. Reagan tod them to let our people go when they took our embassy hostage, they did let them go out of fear. They finally met someone else who was willing to shut them up. Over the past 45 years Iran has attacked or sponsored attacks by its proxies on the U.S. We have taken the lesser response time and time again while Iran continued to chant Death to America. No More.

Iran was not threatening the US. Please cite where it was. Not only that, it specifically was not when Israel attacked it.

They did swear retribution if we did tho...so if you really believe they were going to attack us, you must also believe that now they'll come after us, right? Yes or no? (And no, they dont need nukes, they have plenty of extremist individuals they can send to start the terrorism.)

TACO sounds stupider every minute, as does MAGA.
 
Great. We found the apologist loophole

The Laws of Armed Conflict are not an "Apologist Loophole", they are literally what you are accusing Israel of violating. It is no one's fault but your own (or, I suppose, whoever is feeding you information) that you didn't know what they actually said.

"Hey, I caught you speeding - you were going 65 mph"
"But the speed limit here is 70 mph"
"Aha! So that's your loophole, then!"

:rolleyes:


Any obvious Israeli war crime, Israel accepts no blame.

No. When Israel commits a war crime, Israel is to blame. The problem you need to face is that, when HAMAS commits a war crime (such as, for example, militarizing civilian positions and perfidy) that results in civilian suffering and death, HAMAS is to blame.

The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that militarizes a civilian position responsible for securing civilian personnel and cultural heritage in that position and any damage to the same that results. The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that commits perfidy responsible for the resulting stripping of protections from the civilians they mimic.

There are a number of good reasons for that, not least (though not the greatest) of which is, if you reward a tactic such as perfidy with success, you get more of it. If you reward using civilian shields, more people will use them. If you reward perfidy, you will get more perfidy.

In Iraq, AQI sent kids to throw grenades at us, because they knew Americans liked kids, and figured kids would be more successful - which they were, at first.

However, the survival instinct is pretty solid, and, if you lose a couple people to kids throwing grenades, you eventually shoot the kids running at you with grenades.

So, AQI armed the next batch of kids with rocks (you can't tell the difference when someone is running at you) so they could video "Evil American Soldiers Brutally Mowing Down Kids Just For Throwing Rocks".

...It messes you up, tbh. We have a very different understanding of the value and innocence of children than these kinds of groups.

The reason why the Laws of Armed Conflict so strongly condemn perfidy like that is because it strips protection from the groups who are being mimicked. You aren't supposed to use ambulances to move soldiers and weapons because that forces the opposition to start shooting ambulances. You aren't supposed to hide as civilians because that forces the opposition to start shooting civilians. You aren't supposed to fake surrenders in order to initiate an ambush because that forces them to start shooting people who are indicating an intent to surrender.

HAMAS has done all this and more, and the Laws of Armed Conflict correctly hold them responsible for the results.

But, they do it anyway - because they know that it will cause useful allies in the West to put strategic pressure on Israel. Use perfidy on Israel, and get the West to blame Israel for the results of HAMAS' actions. :-/


How do you blame Hamas for Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian prisoners in prison I wonder?

I don't. Israeli soldiers are responsible for that and should be prosecuted accordingly.
 
How do you blame Hamas for Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian prisoners in prison I wonder?
I don't. I want to know the facts about the accusation. Of course, if you don't have any more than you do for Israeli soldiers allegedly shooting innocent Palestinians who had their hands up, we can just discount your accusation.
 
You folks on the right sure do like ya' some violence.
We do what needs to be done. Israel did all the work. We dropped the bomb that finished the job. A job well done. This is one for the history books. ;)
 
The Laws of Armed Conflict are not an "Apologist Loophole", they are literally what you are accusing Israel of violating. It is no one's fault but your own (or, I suppose, whoever is feeding you information) that you didn't know what they actually said.

"Hey, I caught you speeding - you were going 65 mph"
"But the speed limit here is 70 mph"
"Aha! So that's your loophole, then!"

:rolleyes:




No. When Israel commits a war crime, Israel is to blame. The problem you need to face is that, when HAMAS commits a war crime (such as, for example, militarizing civilian positions and perfidy) that results in civilian suffering and death, HAMAS is to blame.

The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that militarizes a civilian position responsible for securing civilian personnel and cultural heritage in that position and any damage to the same that results. The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that commits perfidy responsible for the resulting stripping of protections from the civilians they mimic.

There are a number of good reasons for that, not least (though not the greatest) of which is, if you reward a tactic such as perfidy with success, you get more of it. If you reward using civilian shields, more people will use them. If you reward perfidy, you will get more perfidy.

In Iraq, AQI sent kids to throw grenades at us, because they knew Americans liked kids, and figured kids would be more successful - which they were, at first.

However, the survival instinct is pretty solid, and, if you lose a couple people to kids throwing grenades, you eventually shoot the kids running at you with grenades.

So, AQI armed the next batch of kids with rocks (you can't tell the difference when someone is running at you) so they could video "Evil American Soldiers Brutally Mowing Down Kids Just For Throwing Rocks".

...It messes you up, tbh. We have a very different understanding of the value and innocence of children than these kinds of groups.

The reason why the Laws of Armed Conflict so strongly condemn perfidy like that is because it strips protection from the groups who are being mimicked. You aren't supposed to use ambulances to move soldiers and weapons because that forces the opposition to start shooting ambulances. You aren't supposed to hide as civilians because that forces the opposition to start shooting civilians. You aren't supposed to fake surrenders in order to initiate an ambush because that forces them to start shooting people who are indicating an intent to surrender.

HAMAS has done all this and more, and the Laws of Armed Conflict correctly hold them responsible for the results.

But, they do it anyway - because they know that it will cause useful allies in the West to put strategic pressure on Israel. Use perfidy on Israel, and get the West to blame Israel for the results of HAMAS' actions. :-/




I don't. Israeli soldiers are responsible for that and should be prosecuted accordingly.

And you are saying Israel can gun down any civilians they want and so long as they say “perfidy”, it’s fine.

Israeli soldiers AREN’T being held accountable for raping prisoners and Israelis rioted when it was suggested they should be.
 
I don't. I want to know the facts about the accusation. Of course, if you don't have any more than you do for Israeli soldiers allegedly shooting innocent Palestinians who had their hands up, we can just discount your accusation.

I posted the videos. You ignored them.
 
The Framers placed the President in command of America's military. They never imagined that Americans would be foolish enough to elect a man like Trump to the Presidency.

According to Trump's Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Iran is not currently building a nuclear weapon and the Supreme Leader has not authorized the resumption of a weapons program. This assessment is consistent with past intelligence reports.

It is quite likely that Iran does not want a nuke. Iran's bitter enemy, Israel, has between 75 to 200 nukes. (Israel does not publicize her nuclear stockpile.)

NBC reports, "Several members of Congress in both parties Saturday questioned the legality of President Donald Trump’s move to launch military strikes on Iran.."

Like the loyal lapdogs they are, Republicans in Congress fell in line with Trump.

Under Trump's leadership, the United States committed a war of aggression based on Trump's assumption of what Iran may do!

Trump assumed that Iran would make a nuclear bomb. "Iran was very close to having one,” Trump said.

Worse, he then assumed Iran would use the nuclear bomb.

That was not likely. Iran has had the capability to make a nuke for years, and she has not. Why? It is painfully obvious to everyone not named Trump. Iran's bitter enemy has between 75 to 200 nuclear weapons.

Iran didn't want to make herself a target. This simple concept flew right over Trump's head.

Several nations possess nuclear weapons, including Russia. Only one nation has ever used a nuclear weapon -- the United States.

Trump did not want to be confused with facts. So, he attacked Iran. Republicans in the Trump administration cheered the glorious leader. Trump is surrounded by admirers and the media is doing its part.

So, our country committed military aggression against a weakened foe, and the media is glorifying the event by giving its listeners every gritty detail!
 
Stupid but accurate.

 
According to US military sources, Iranian air defenses did not react at all during the US attack.

 
And you are saying Israel can gun down any civilians they want and so long as they say “perfidy”, it’s fine.

:rolleyes: That is not what I am saying, though, given that this was your response, I kind of doubt you are even bothering to read what I am saying.

Israeli soldiers AREN’T being held accountable for raping prisoners and Israelis rioted when it was suggested they should be.

Israeli soldiers you are likely referring to were arrested and charged. Some ultra-nationalists did indeed attempt to break into the relevant military base, which got them condemned by Netanyahu.
 
Trump Republicans don't want you to read this. Their only weapon is their stupidity!

The Framers placed the President in command of America's military. They never imagined that Americans would be foolish enough to elect a man like Trump to the Presidency.
According to Trump's Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Iran is not currently building a nuclear weapon and the Supreme Leader has not authorized the resumption of a weapons program. This assessment is consistent with past intelligence reports.

It is quite likely that Iran does not want a nuke. Iran's bitter enemy, Israel, has between 75 to 200 nukes. (Israel does not publicize her nuclear stockpile.)

NBC reports, "Several members of Congress in both parties Saturday questioned the legality of President Donald Trump’s move to launch military strikes on Iran.."

Like the loyal lapdogs they are, Republicans in Congress fell in line with Trump.

Under Trump's leadership, the United States committed a war of aggression based on Trump's assumption of what Iran may do!

Trump assumed that Iran would make a nuclear bomb. "Iran was very close to having one,” Trump said.

Worse, he then assumed Iran would use the nuclear bomb.

That was not likely. Iran has had the capability to make a nuke for years, and she has not. Why? It is painfully obvious to everyone not named Trump. Iran's bitter enemy has between 75 to 200 nuclear weapons.

Iran didn't want to make herself a target. This simple concept flew right over Trump's head.

Several nations possess nuclear weapons, including Russia. Only one nation has ever used a nuclear weapon -- the United States.

Trump did not want to be confused with facts. So, he attacked Iran. Republicans in the Trump administration cheered the glorious leader. Trump is surrounded by admirers and the media is doing its part.

So, our country committed military aggression against a weakened foe, and the media is glorifying the event by giving its listeners every gritty detail!
 
The Laws of Armed Conflict are not an "Apologist Loophole", they are literally what you are accusing Israel of violating. It is no one's fault but your own (or, I suppose, whoever is feeding you information) that you didn't know what they actually said.

"Hey, I caught you speeding - you were going 65 mph"
"But the speed limit here is 70 mph"
"Aha! So that's your loophole, then!"

:rolleyes:




No. When Israel commits a war crime, Israel is to blame. The problem you need to face is that, when HAMAS commits a war crime (such as, for example, militarizing civilian positions and perfidy) that results in civilian suffering and death, HAMAS is to blame.

The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that militarizes a civilian position responsible for securing civilian personnel and cultural heritage in that position and any damage to the same that results. The Laws of Armed Conflict correctly consider the force that commits perfidy responsible for the resulting stripping of protections from the civilians they mimic.

There are a number of good reasons for that, not least (though not the greatest) of which is, if you reward a tactic such as perfidy with success, you get more of it. If you reward using civilian shields, more people will use them. If you reward perfidy, you will get more perfidy.

In Iraq, AQI sent kids to throw grenades at us, because they knew Americans liked kids, and figured kids would be more successful - which they were, at first.

However, the survival instinct is pretty solid, and, if you lose a couple people to kids throwing grenades, you eventually shoot the kids running at you with grenades.

So, AQI armed the next batch of kids with rocks (you can't tell the difference when someone is running at you) so they could video "Evil American Soldiers Brutally Mowing Down Kids Just For Throwing Rocks".

...It messes you up, tbh. We have a very different understanding of the value and innocence of children than these kinds of groups.

The reason why the Laws of Armed Conflict so strongly condemn perfidy like that is because it strips protection from the groups who are being mimicked. You aren't supposed to use ambulances to move soldiers and weapons because that forces the opposition to start shooting ambulances. You aren't supposed to hide as civilians because that forces the opposition to start shooting civilians. You aren't supposed to fake surrenders in order to initiate an ambush because that forces them to start shooting people who are indicating an intent to surrender.

HAMAS has done all this and more, and the Laws of Armed Conflict correctly hold them responsible for the results.

But, they do it anyway - because they know that it will cause useful allies in the West to put strategic pressure on Israel. Use perfidy on Israel, and get the West to blame Israel for the results of HAMAS' actions. :-/




I don't. Israeli soldiers are responsible for that and should be prosecuted accordingly.
Post #162


Collective punishment - which is what the Israeli Government is inflicting on the Palestinians in Gaza - is a war crime.
 
Axios reports, "The U.S. military conducted air strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities in Fordow, Natanz and Isfahan on Sunday morning local time, President Trump announced on Truth Social.

Why it matters: Trump's decision to intervene directly in support of Israel's effort to dismantle Iran's nuclear program marks a historic escalation in the Middle East.

It's an intervention fraught with risks and uncertainty — one that Trump and many of his predecessors had sought to avoid, including through diplomacy with Iran.

The attack, which came on the ninth night of the unprecedented war between Israel and Iran, could provoke retaliation from Tehran against U.S. troops and military installations across the region.

We have completed our very successful attack on the three Nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan. All planes are now outside of Iran air space," Trump wrote on his Truth Social account.

  • "A full payload of BOMBS was dropped on the primary site, Fordow," he continued, referring to Iran's most fortified uranium enrichment facility.
  • "There is not another military in the World that could have done this. NOW IS THE TIME FOR PEACE!" Trump announced on Truth Social.
Depends upon how one defines success:


...Satellite photographs of the primary target, the Fordo uranium enrichment plant that Iran built under a mountain, showed several holes where a dozen 30,000-pound Massive Ordnance Penetrators — one of the largest conventional bombs in the U.S. arsenal — punched deep holes in the rock. The Israeli military’s initial analysis concluded that the site, the target of American and Israeli military planners for more than 26 years, sustained serious damage from the strike but had not been completely destroyed.

But there was also evidence, according to two Israeli officials with knowledge of the intelligence, that Iran had moved equipment and uranium from the site in recent days. And there was growing evidence that the Iranians, attuned to Mr. Trump’s repeated threats to take military action, had removed 400 kilograms, or roughly 880 pounds, of uranium enriched to 60 percent purity. That is just below the 90 percent that is usually used in nuclear weapons.

Rafael Mariano Grossi, the director of general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said by text that the fuel had last been seen by his teams of United Nations inspectors about a week before Israel began its attacks on Iran. But he said on CNN that “Iran has made no secret that they have protected this material.”

Asked by text later in the day whether he meant that the fuel stockpile — which is stored in special casks small enough to fit in the trunks of about 10 cars — had been moved, he replied, “I do.”
 
Back
Top Bottom