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Trump and the cons want to bring back Confederate statues and the name of military bases

Jezcoe said:
I would have no problem with a statue to Longstreet.

Yet the same people who put up statues to Forrest never honored that guy.

Why is that?
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Hypocrisy.
 
Juin said:
Each citizen has the right to believe as it pleases him





Good for you. Unfortunately each citizen is his own judge of facts.





I only argue for their rights to express their opinions. No one- Confederate or not- has rights beyond that except as permitted by Law.
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You sound like a MAGA, believe in alternate facts, it is your right. It is, but it is not your right to force others to go along with your alternate facts. And you can voice your opinion of what the Confederacy was all about, but putting up statues and naming military bases, especially the bases seem like telling blacks and especially those serving in our military, that you are less than the rest of us. Mny would call it shoving their faces in it.
 
Master Debator said:
Is someone giving those out here? 🤷🏾‍♂️ Are you recognizing the superiority of my arguments? That's healthily self aware.
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Evasive. Are you vying for a supremacist award?
 
Juin said:
Yes, it should. I did not agree with Speaker Pelosi's removal of statues of four of her predecessors, on Juneteenth, for serving in the Confederacy.




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Why?

What would the point be to replace a bust of a genuinely terrible human being back into the Tennessee Capitol? It was placed there in 1973.

Is it a rule that once a statue is placed it can never be removed?
 
j brown's body said:
That would be ironic.

I believe it was because he felt the extreme violence prolonged federal occupation of the south, making it that much harder to implement white supremacist policies, and the state violence that could be used to enforce it.
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General Nathan Bedford Forrest Versus the Ku Klux Klan, John A. Tures (Professor of Political Science, LaGrange College, HuffPost, Jul 6, 2015 Updated Jul 6, 2016

As Ben Phelan with PBS writes:
"After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve -- in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school -- and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan."

If you read Eddy W. Davison's "Nathan Bedford Forrest: In Search of the Enigma," on page 464 and 474-475, you can see that Forrest not only publicly disavowed the KKK and worked to terminate it, but in August 1874, Forrest "volunteered to help 'exterminate' those men responsible for the continued violence against the blacks." After the murder of four blacks by a lynch mob after they were arrested for defending themselves at a BBQ, Forrest wrote to Tennessee Governor Brown, offering "to exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by this cowardly murder of Negroes."
 
WisconIndependent said:
You sound like a MAGA, believe in alternate facts, it is your right. It is, but it is not your right to force others to go along with your alternate facts.
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I am not the one smashing statues




WisconIndependent said:
And you can voice your opinion of what the Confederacy was all about, but putting up statues and naming military bases, especially the bases seem like telling blacks and especially those serving in our military, that you are less than the rest of us. Mny would call it shoving their faces in it.
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For better or for worse its a Republic of blacks, whites, red, yellow, Confederates and Abolitionists. It is not a Republic of angels. It is a Republic of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Anti Abolitionists- Confederates being a subset of that- have also shed blood for the Republic.
 
Juin said:
Yes, it should. I did not agree with Speaker Pelosi's removal of statues of four of her predecessors, on Juneteenth, for serving in the Confederacy.




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So you respect the rights of citizens to erect statues to slavers, but you dont agree when citizens exercising their rights and removing them?
Juin said:
Evasive. Are you vying for a supremacist award?
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I'm not trying to be evasive you're just being your usual meek self. You aren't really being specific on what that even means. I do think I have the superior arguments but I doubt its that. Who's giving out this award? The person you simp to? 🤷🏾‍♂️ 😂
 
Jezcoe said:
Why?

What would the point be to replace a bust of a genuinely terrible human being back into the Tennessee Capitol? It was placed there in 1973.

Is it a rule that once a statue is placed it can never be removed?
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Or don't put it back. I thought your question was more how I felt about a case of it being put back.
 
Along Came Jones said:
General Nathan Bedford Forrest Versus the Ku Klux Klan, John A. Tures (Professor of Political Science, LaGrange College, HuffPost, Jul 6, 2015 Updated Jul 6, 2016

As Ben Phelan with PBS writes:
"After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve -- in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school -- and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan."

If you read Eddy W. Davison's "Nathan Bedford Forrest: In Search of the Enigma," on page 464 and 474-475, you can see that Forrest not only publicly disavowed the KKK and worked to terminate it, but in August 1874, Forrest "volunteered to help 'exterminate' those men responsible for the continued violence against the blacks." After the murder of four blacks by a lynch mob after they were arrested for defending themselves at a BBQ, Forrest wrote to Tennessee Governor Brown, offering "to exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by this cowardly murder of Negroes."
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That marks two Confederates, including Lee, who at least had the good sense to be embarrassed enough by their own participation that they didn't want these celebrations. What the **** is wrong with the rest of these deplorables who weren't even there? 🤷🏾‍♂️ 😂
 
Master Debator said:
So you respect the rights of citizens to erect statues to slavers, but you dont agree when citizens exercising their rights and removing them?

I'm not trying to be evasive you're just being your usual meek self. You aren't really being specific on what that even means. I do think I have the superior arguments but I doubt its that. Who's giving out this award? The person you simp to? 🤷🏾‍♂️ 😂
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Statue Smashing is cowardice masquerading as valour. A Statue Smasher is like an arsonist and should not be compared to a fire fighter at all.
 
Juin said:
Statue Smashing is cowardice masquerading as valour. A Statue Smasher is like an arsonist and should not be compared to a fire fighter at all.
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Nancy Pelosi isnt a statue smasher. Do you see how frail she is? 🤷🏾‍♂️ About as frail as this argument. 😂 She was exercising her rights as Speaker of the House.
 
Master Debator said:
That marks two Confederates, including Lee, who at least had the good sense to be embarrassed enough by their own participation that they didn't want these celebrations. What the **** is wrong with the rest of these deplorables who weren't even there? 🤷🏾‍♂️ 😂
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My good sir, you were not there either:)
 
Juin said:
My good sir, you were not there either:)
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Again, did I suggest that I was? I obviously have a problem with my tax dollars going to statues of white supremacists because I'm Black and I'm not about celebrating people who would of wanted to own me and mine as their property. Unlike soft white Confederate idolaters I can explain myself clearly and without fear or shame. I still cant get an answer from you why you imagine changing the drapes to be an erasure of history rather than a change in landscape or whether or not you need someone else to tell you who the bad guys are.
 
Along Came Jones said:
General Nathan Bedford Forrest Versus the Ku Klux Klan, John A. Tures (Professor of Political Science, LaGrange College, HuffPost, Jul 6, 2015 Updated Jul 6, 2016

As Ben Phelan with PBS writes:
"After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve -- in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school -- and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan."

If you read Eddy W. Davison's "Nathan Bedford Forrest: In Search of the Enigma," on page 464 and 474-475, you can see that Forrest not only publicly disavowed the KKK and worked to terminate it, but in August 1874, Forrest "volunteered to help 'exterminate' those men responsible for the continued violence against the blacks." After the murder of four blacks by a lynch mob after they were arrested for defending themselves at a BBQ, Forrest wrote to Tennessee Governor Brown, offering "to exterminate the white marauders who disgrace their race by this cowardly murder of Negroes."
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I don't deny any of that. But at the time, the federal occupation of the south was interfering with white supremacy. Taming the Klan and stopping the extrajudicial violence against blacks would be a way of getting rid of them.
 
Master Debator said:
Nancy Pelosi isnt a statue smasher. Do you see how frail she is? 🤷🏾‍♂️ About as frail as this argument. 😂 She was exercising her rights as Speaker of the House.
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I am not challenging her rights as a Speaker, just disagreeing with her.
 
Juin said:
I am not challenging her rights as a Speaker, just disagreeing with her.
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You areeing with the exercising of rights to raise and maintain statues to slavers but not to take them down is precisely what I'm pointing out. 🤷🏾‍♂️ 😂
 
Juin said:
Or don't put it back. I thought your question was more how I felt about a case of it being put back.
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okay… so there is room to not place them back.

Then why should the Albert Pike statue be put back?
 
Y'all, hows about we keep the ones honoring the Generals? Like Robert E Lee. Sure, it could praise Slavery, Jimmy Crow, ect. But it could also represent the sheer tactical genius that Lee and Jackson had, and other Generals.
 
j brown's body said:
I don't deny any of that. But at the time, the federal occupation of the south was interfering with white supremacy. Taming the Klan and stopping the extrajudicial violence against blacks would be a way of getting rid of them.
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Forrest was a straight up sociopath.

He was an embodiment of evil.
 
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