Trump administration bars Harvard from enrolling foreign students

[Chomsky]

Issues such as immigration, citizenship, admissions, deportations are political questions. They are not Judicial ones.

Congress has plenary power over this.
Not the courts.
Congress has very narrowly limited the courts scope here (immigration courts are part of the Executive Branch, Judicial courts of appeals can only rule upon the facts, and district courts have basically no say). That is what "separation of powers' is all about.

That's also why there is talk about the Administrative Procedure Act. Because there is really no other opening.

Congress has ceded some of their authority to the president with respect to national security issues.

So maybe Harvard can't be forced to give up the information requested.
But it doesn't matter. Because the Executive can do what he is threatening to do, because the branch of government that has the power on the subject has ceded (some of it) it to them.

That's the end of the story.

I really can't say how accurate the above is, but I must admit it is cogently written.

I think I do agree that Trump's use of "war/emergency powers" will be the key issue in many of these cases.

But again, this is very well written - which is something I respect!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Like so many of the district court rulings against Trump that we have seen since January.

Let's count up the wins/losses:

Supreme Court:

DEI teacher-training grants (stay) – win for Trump

Mass firing of probationary federal workers (stay) – win for Trump

Alien Enemies Act deportations (Apr 7 & May 16 orders) – loss for Trump

Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia (Apr 10 order) – loss for Trump

Cancellation of Venezuela TPS (May 19 decision) – win for Trump

Courts of appeals:

Termination of the Cuba/Haiti/Nicaragua/Venezuela parole program: First Circuit kept the injunction in place on May 5 – loss for Trump

Birth-right citizenship executive order: Court heard arguments May 15, decision still pending; right now the lower court injunctions blocking the order remain in force - still a loss for Trump, for now.

Again-- Congress has plenary power over immigration, citizenship, admissions, deportations etc.
Not the courts.

Like so many of the district court rulings against Trump that we have seen since January.

Also, you know what's interesting about these rulings above?

None of these rulings, not from district judges, appeals panels, nor the Supreme Court, leans on the sweeping "Congress-can-do-anything-they-want, courts-hands-off" version of the plenary power doctrine pushed by Heritage and Stephen Miller. Instead, judges keep applying ordinary constitutional and administrative law tests, showing that the extreme plenary narrative you and your fascist ilk keep pushing just isn’t resulting in real world legal outcomes.

 

[Chomsky]

I looked and I could only find one actual incident of assault on a Jewish student at Harvard. Just one.

And it was fairly mild. No injuries. And the two students responsible have already been charged and sentenced.

I've seen more frequent, and more violent assaults at college football games

Exactly.

There's been a dearth of charges and convictions in the matters of Bondi's allegations. All there is are "allegations".

 

[Hamish Howl]

Taking away Harvard’s visas because Trump administration officials dislike campus speech is First Amendment retaliation. The Supreme Court forbids that. The government cannot punish one speaker to scare others. Immigration rules let the Secretary cut a school’s visa program only for clear regulatory violations. Doing it for politics would be “arbitrary and capricious” under the Administrative Procedure Act and would fail in court.

But what's the point in arguing about this with Trump supporters. Trump supporters don't give a shit about the Constitution. None of them do. Trump supporters are basically fascists who think the Constitution only applies to people who have white skin, believe in Jesus, and have a penis. That's the bottom line. That's what all of this is about.

It is beyond obvious that MAGA folks are weary of self rule and just want a king.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I have no idea where you got the idea that pointing out the continuing atrocities committed by the Government of Israel against the trapped and helpless civilians in Gaza is "directed at Jews" and is similar to German antisemitism of last century.

I have no idea where you got the idea that pointing out the continuing atrocities committed by the Government of Israel against the trapped and helpless civilians in Gaza "excuses" what the terrorist group Hamas did on October 7, 2025.

"Protecting Jews" does not entail closing our eyes to or ignoring information about the continuing atrocities committed by the Government of Israel against the trapped and helpless civilians in Gaza.

I do NOT "oppose" Israel. I want that nation and its people to survive and to thrive. What successive Israeli Governments have done in their decades'-long occupation of Gaza, their crippling (and ongoing) blockade of Gaza, their periodic "mowings of the lawn" in Gaza, and Netanyahu's current, failed campaign to eradicate Hamas from Gaza by dispossessing, making homeless, depriving of medical care, and starving 2.2 million civilians (not to mention the deaths), is not working. It hasn't worked in the past when it's been done on a lower scale, and it's not working now.

I agree with you that it is in Israel’s long-term interests to avoid treating Gaza’s residents so poorly.

I think most people can separate in their own minds their opposition to the actions of the current Israeli government and Jewish people in general.

I also think some people can't, or won't.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

It is beyond obvious that MAGA folks are weary of self rule and just want a king.

Yeah, I think it's very obvious. They'd be perfectly happy if Trump were a king.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I really can't say how accurate the above is, but I must admit it is cogently written.

I think I do agree that Trump's use of "war/emergency powers" will be the key issue in many of these cases.

But again, this is very well written - which is something I respect!

He’s just recycling talking points from groups like Heritage Foundation, pushing fringe legal theories that only Stephen Miller types treat as settled law.

 

[Chomsky]

I'm OK with this legal delay. They will at least start to comply, or the delay will do little good.

I wouldn't count on it. With the stay, I doubt Harvard will tender the request data until/if court ordered.

 

[Chomsky]

He’s just recycling talking points from groups like Heritage Foundation, pushing fringe legal theories that only Stephen Miller types treat as settled law.

His post seems to present the situation's overarching framework, and seems plausible in conceptual terms.

But yes, God is in the details and the courts may have constitutional-test openings, as we all in applying the Procedures Act (this latter item he acknowledged).

So yeah, as I said I can't speak to his theory's accuracy or likelihood to prevail.

But, much of my compliment was to his writing. Accurate, or not, that was a well written post - and I respect & admire good writing.

 

[Chomsky]

lol also Israel is doing more than anyone that have negative bias aimed at them and their civilians coming here as international students, many of whom have committed more violence on American soil against people more than any anti Israel protester has to them.

Or are these Trump simps gonna ignore how pro Israel scum at UCLA were assaulting pro Palestinian protesters last year?

All of a sudden now these people are wanting their own form of political correctness and DEI bullshit lol.

Quite honestly, those formerly decrying "'DEI' & 'Woke'" are now appearing quite "woke' themselves!

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Noem offered Harvard 72 hours to provide the information requested for an opportunity to regain its visa program for the next school year.

Not quite. DHS issued a demand for information to Harvard some time ago, with a deadline of April 30th. Then Harvard got three more weeks. Then Noem issued her final demand, giving Harvard 72 hours to finally comply:

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem sent Harvard “a scathing letter demanding detailed records on Harvard’s foreign student visa holders’ illegal and violent activities by April 30, 2025, or face immediate loss of Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP) certification,” her agency said Wednesday in a news release that refers to antisemitism but does not detail specific incidents.

 

[Chomsky]

The Right aren’t the one calling for a “global intifada” or chanting “from the river to the sea”. It wasn’t a conservative who ambushed and murdered two young people because of their religion. He was 100% a leftist.

Since when do 1st A protections exclude "chanting"?

 

[Chomsky]

I can only speak for myself, of course.

But as a card-carrying Left Coast Ivy League Ivory Tower Intellectual Global Conspiracy Jew, I can say without hesitation that I consider MAGA Americans to be the greatest threat to Jews and Judaism in America today.

I swear I've heard this phrase in a Ween lyric!

 

[Grizzly Adams]

They are not following the law in their bogus request for information beyond the scope required. They didn’t give enough notice or allow for an appeal. They made a demand and immediately ended their status. This is not legal.

No, they made a demand, gave Harvard until April 30th, then gave Harvard three more weeks, then moved to terminate their SEVIS certification.

Such as participation in a protest, which not illegal nor did it lead to their arrest. Nor are any of their views on political issues required to be reported. These things are not required in the reporting.

After reading the list of demands, that one in particular stod out as beyond the scope of reporting requirements. Others, however, do not.

 

[Chomsky]

Everything Trump is doing is directed by him and him alone and for him and him alone. Having studied political reforms in several countries over the past 100 years. The White House id now drenched in gold plated decor and pictures of him with the lates a picture of Reagan, Lincoln and Trump with Trump of course in the foreground. If he is not stopped soon by our laws we will be witnessing the death of democracy and don't think the Trump mafia is not working on making the next election a landslide for Trump or a handpicked radical right candidate. The following slogan is close to death, "It can't happen here."

I did notice the gold! In a recent video interview. I though Trump was in Mar a Lago, as there were pompous classical-style gold adornments literally everywhere. Only later, when the camera panned back, did I realize he was in the White House. It was surrealistic.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I swear I've heard this phrase in a Ween lyric!

It sounds like something out of "Mister Richard Smoker."

(He's a poopy poker...)

 

[Along Came Jones]

Good luck with that!

Not so sure luck is required. Depends, I believe, on how well Democrats can exploit voters' dissatisfaction with Congress and especially with the direction the country is going.

Among polling services listed at Balletpedia's Direction of country rating page only Rasmussen reports a 47% wrong direction / 47% right direction split.

The Economist/YouGov, Harvard Harris, Emerson College, NewsNation, and NY Times/Siena polls each report a majority of registered voters who believe the country is going in the wrong direction. As of 5/23 the right direction polling average is 43%.

All 435 House and 33 Senate seats are up for grabs in 2026. Midterms generally favor the party out of power. If Trump's chaos runs unabetted and the Democrats campaign from the center, they have a solid chance of winning majorities in both houses.

The Hill reports that DOGE was responsible for 283,172 job cuts during the first four months, plus 6,945 downstream impact job losses. Most of those people have extended families, most of whom may not take too kindly to Trump tossing their kin into financial distress, if not into dire circumstances. That alone may produce a multiplier effect against Republican candidates.

My crystal ball may be clouded by an anticipated domestic backlash when compared with Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball over at the University of Virginia: The House: Democrats Favored on What Starts as a Small Battlefield. He and his team see the election as more competitive. Let's see if the electorate revolts or swings with traditional midterm voting.

 

[Chomsky]

It sounds like something out of "Mister Richard Smoker."

(He's a poopy poker...)

Ween is definitely an acquired taste!

But actually - I was indeed referring to a cut off of "Pure Guava". It's called, "Reggaejunkiejew". Given how offensive it is, I'll let you find it on YouTube - rather than posting it here.

--

But I will leave you with this cut, below!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

None of this acknowledges what was said about how the zionist / pro israel side has actually committed more acts of violence here in the US, and it's specifically from the event in the article I linked, which showed pro israel / zionists assulting more people in one night at UCLA than any pro palestinian protester has at any of the nationwide protests over the course of the last 2 years.

I saw the video, it's true that pro-Israeli protestors engaged in physical violence against pro-Palestinian protestors.

I also think it's true that Jews in the U.S. and across the world, whether they supported Israel or not, were sincere when they expressed fears of bodily harm after Israel defended itself against the Oct 7th attacks. Furthermore, this can be backed up with statistics. For example, there were 161 recorded acts of physical violence against Jews in 2023, and 196 recorded in 2024. This is not explicitly stated, but I surmise about half took place near protests.

ADL: New record for antisemitic incidents set in 2024

2024 also marked the first year that Israel- or Zionism-related incidents made up a majority of all occurrences

jewishinsider.com

ADL Audit of Anti-Semitic Incidents 2023

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

There was also 1 protest related killing, Paul Kessler, he was hit with a megaphone, and if I recall correctly, he stumbled and then hit his head on the ground.

We also have the 2 Israeli staff members who were just recently killed. This is unrelated to the protests, but reveals the danger faced by Jews.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Ween is definitely an acquired taste!

But actually - I was indeed referring to a cut off of "Pure Guava". It's called, "Reggaejunkiejew". Given how offensive it is, I'll let you find it on YouTube - rather than posting it here.

--

But I will leave you with this cut, below!

Oh I'm familiar with a little bit of Ween, courtesy of some college friends. It started with "Spinal Meningitis" and blossomed from there.

 

[Chomsky]

Oh I'm familiar with a little bit of Ween, courtesy of some college friends. It started with "Spinal Meningitis" and blossomed from there.

I first heard Ween when "Push th' Little Daises" got airplay, and I picked up a copy of Pure Guava. That was back in the early nineties.

I never heard anything like it. I couldn't make-up my mind if they were highly creative, or just lazy sloppy amateurs! But after awhile, they drew me in. It's not really "listening to music" in a critical manner (as I often do). It's more liking taking in their creative unprofessional/unrehearsed goofing around, but for some reason it captures my attention if I'm in the right mood.

I do hope you give the video I posted above ("I Play It Off Legit") a listen. It's actually a pretty decent concept.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I first heard Ween when "Push th' Little Daises" got airplay, and I picked up a copy of Pure Guava. That was back in the early nineties.

That's the only track I have off that album.

My (limited) Ween collection:

I never heard anything like it.

Agreed. I downloaded so much from Audiogalaxy when I discovered them. The above were the songs that made the cut.

I couldn't make-up my mind if they were highly creative, or just lazy sloppy amateurs! But after awhile, they drew me in. It's not really "listening to music" in a critical manner (as I often do). It's more liking taking in their creative unprofessional/unrehearsed goofing around, but for some reason it captures my attention if I'm in the right mood.

I do hope you give the video I posted above ("I Play It Off Legit") a listen. It's actually a pretty decent concept.

It was okay. Doesn't hold a candle, IMHO, to "Mister Richard Smoker" or "Bananas and Blow."

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Not quite. DHS issued a demand for information to Harvard some time ago, with a deadline of April 30th. Then Harvard got three more weeks. Then Noem issued her final demand, giving Harvard 72 hours to finally comply:

This is what really happened:

Apr 16: Noem gave Harvard 10 business days, until Apr 30, yo turn over 8 categories of visa student data.

Note: Even that original request included private disciplinary and misconduct info Harvard couldn’t legally share under FERPA.

Apr 30: Harvard complied with only the required SEVIS data.

May 7: DHS said it was "insufficient," gave 1 more week to hand over the information Harvard couldn't legally share under FERPA.

May 22: DHS revoked certification, gave 72 hours to produce all records, including 5 years of protest videos and every disciplinary file.

Demand grew from 8 items to a sweeping request for information, far beyond what the law requires or allows.

What the government is doing is illegal, unconstitutional. It again proves the Trump administration is attempting to become a fascist regime.

Source:

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2025/05/Harvard-Visa-Complaint.pdf

 

[Grizzly Adams]

This is what really happened:

Apr 16: Noem gave Harvard 10 business days, until Apr 30, yo turn over 8 categories of visa student data.

Note: Even that original request included private disciplinary and misconduct info Harvard couldn’t legally share under FERPA.

Apr 30: Harvard complied with only the required SEVIS data.

May 7: DHS said it was "insufficient," gave 1 more week to hand over the information Harvard couldn't legally share under FERPA.

May 22: DHS revoked certification, gave 72 hours to produce all records, including 5 years of protest videos and every disciplinary file.

Demand grew from 8 items to a sweeping request for information, far beyond what the law requires or allows.

What the government doing is illegal, unconstitutional. It again proves the Trump administration is attempting to become a fascist regime.

Source:

https://www.harvard.edu/research-funding/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2025/05/Harvard-Visa-Complaint.pdf

Oh, Harvard says the government's demands of Harvard are illegal? Oh, I totally believe that disinterested party.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Oh, Harvard says the government's demands of Harvard are illegal? Oh, I totally believe that disinterested party.

The things Harvard is actually required to share are clearly spelled out in federal law, 8 CFR 214.3, and anyone can look them up.

Most of what DHS recently demanded, like protest videos and non-criminal discipline records, isn’t on that list. And under FERPA, Harvard can’t legally hand over that kind of info without a subpoena or court order. It’s all public. The law’s not vague,it just doesn’t say what the government wants it to.

if the government wants this information it needs a warrant or a subpoena.