Trump administration bars Harvard from enrolling foreign students

[Lord of Planar]

1. A veto proof Congress with a Democratic Party majority.
2. A third impeachment; this time with a conviction.

This message was authorized by the party of hate.

 

[Bonnot]

all this carry on could harm Harvard's global standing among the world as the top university on the planet

Which is the point. Republicans want to destroy higher education. They see colleges as liberal breeding grounds. Or in their nazi language, cultural marxist breeding grounds.

This is all intentional.

They want a far right echo chamber and to spread their diseased ideology and it's easier to do it with a stupid unedcuated populace. They want to hold onto power for generations.

They already got a population stupid enough to vote Trump back in after his first disaster of a term and give him a trifecta of a republican controlled congress and senate and judicary.

 

[Fletch]

Total bullshit. I say this as a moderate Democrat. Total fascists.

Lol right.

The difference is very simple. We think that the Constitution is intended for everyone, not just for white, male, Christians. That's what's going on here. Trump supporters want the government to work only for white, male, Christians, everyone else has to either toe the line or gtfo.

Now thats the real bullshit right there.

What you guys are doing is an example of fascism, pure and simple.

You, like every other leftist here, have no idea what fascism is.

I'm tired of this bullshit. I don't want to live in a goofy Trump-inspired fascist dictatorship.

That exists only in the neurotic minds of the unhinged left.

 

[George50]

The threat to Harvard’s international enrollment stems from an April 16 request from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, who demanded that it provide information about foreign students that might implicate them in violence or protests that could lead to their deportation.​

​

In a letter to Harvard on Thursday, Noem said the school’s sanction is “the unfortunate result of Harvard’s failure to comply with simple reporting requirements.” It bars Harvard from hosting international students for the upcoming 2025-26 school year.​

​

Noem said Harvard can regain its ability to host foreign students if it produces a trove of records on foreign students within 72 hours. Her updated request demands all records, including audio or video footage, of foreign students participating in protests or dangerous activity on campus.​

Seems reasonable to me.

Perhaps that’s because you don’t know the whole story. It’s not a matter of Harvard complying with simple reporting requirements. Harvard has no problem with doing that. Those requirements are spelled out in the CFR. The administration is ignoring that and wants something else from Harvard that is not in the reporting requirements. As expected the administration is hiding the truth.

The real problem is that Harvard is considered to be woke. That’s why they and other top universities are being attacked. Even the U.S. House of Representatives in the title of their summary of the one, big beautiful bill stressed that when they put huge new taxes on them called them woke elites:

Ways and Means Votes To Make 2017 Tax Cuts Permanent, Provide Additional Relief for Workers, Reward Investment in America, and Hold Woke Elites Accountable​

 

[George50]

Which is the point. Republicans want to destroy higher education. They see colleges as liberal breeding grounds. Or in their nazi language, cultural marxist breeding grounds.

This is all intentional.

They want a far right echo chamber and to spread their diseased ideology and it's easier to do it with a stupid unedcuated populace. They want to hold onto power for generations.

They already got a population stupid enough to vote Trump back in after his first disaster of a term and give him a trifecta of a republican controlled congress and senate and judicary.

Absolutely.

Even the U.S. House of Representatives in the title of their summary of the one, big beautiful bill stressed that when they put huge new taxes on universities called them woke elites:

Ways and Means Votes To Make 2017 Tax Cuts Permanent, Provide Additional Relief for Workers, Reward Investment in America, and Hold Woke Elites Accountable​

 

[rahl]

False.

Objectively true.

The courts do not decide who is admitted into the USA.

Strawman. The courts decide if a law or action is constitutional.

That is a power of Congress. You know 'separation of powers.'

And the law is crystal clear on this. The documentation DHS asked for is outside the bounds of the law, and required a subpoena or warrant to obtain. Harvard rightfully told them to **** off. Then trumps administration illegally tried to revoke the visas of the students and harvards certification. And he lost in court. Again, because he keeps wiping his ass with the constitution.

 

[Along Came Jones]

This message was authorized by the party of hate.

No sir.

In another thread a poster claimed I regurgitated hatred from the right: "we are back to the promotion of racist Afrikaner propaganda. You could get a job in the Donny WHITE House."

Don't mean nothing to a centrist. Gotta expect the unreflective blowback.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

It is interesting, and admittedly a seductive idea. I was first drawn to the idea of withdrawing from modern society (on an admittedly limited capacity - a man's gotta eat!) when I read Cahill's How the Irish Saved Civilization. A group of monks retreating from the world at the onset of the Dark Ages, seeking to preserve knowledge as the barbarians held sway - what's not to love about the romantic image that conjures? And the world only seems to have gotten crueler, more trivial, and more willfully idiotic since the book was published in the mid 90's, with Trumpism a natural result.

There are some quite good fiction books with variations on this premise as well. A Canticle for Leibowitz, or Neal Stephenson's Anathem.

It is undoubtedly, at least on the surface, a seductive and romantic idea.

 

[George50]

They need to put it into practice. Trying to paper over the problem achieves nothing.


We're talking about the problem at this university. You can't create a safe space for some students by allowing them to run over others.

Could Harvard do better? Yes, so could any university, business or for that matter, the federal government.

These attacks on Harvard and others has nothing to do with antisemitism. Trump couldn’t care less about that! The problem Harvard has is that they are considered “woke.” That gives him a reason to attack that will energize his base and divert them from other issues.

Unfortunately there is nothing Harvard or any other university can do to stop the administration’s attacks. This is really about the culture wars for the administration and the Republican politicians. They know that many in their base love to see university institutions bashed.

Want proof? House Republicans just passed the one, big, beautiful bill that would put huge new taxes on what they call “woke, elite universities” in their summary titled in huge letters:

Ways and Means Votes To Make 2017 Tax Cuts Permanent, Provide Additional Relief for Workers, Reward Investment in America, and Hold Woke Elites Accountable​

Bashing universities is so important that it needs to be in big old letters on the summary of what Trump called “arguably the most significant piece of Legislation that will ever be signed in the History of our Country!"

What the administration is doing is hurting all students and the country’s leadership in STEM. The universities will survive Trump, but many students will suffer, both foreign and domestic. Grants are being cancelled, scholarships are being impacted, fewer students are being enrolled.

 

[reflechissez]

"The Department of Homeland Security announced the action Thursday, saying Harvard has created an unsafe campus environment by allowing “anti-American, pro-terrorist agitators” to assault Jewish students on campus. It also accused Harvard of coordinating with the Chinese Communist Party, saying it hosted and trained members of a Chinese paramilitary group as recently as 2024."

Is this true?

 

[reflechissez]

Again, then it wouldn't be a Harvard degree, and you would end up with requests for other 'arrangements'

I still think it would be easier, and better, to create a safe learning environment for all students, than to try to find creative ways around government sanctions.

Let Harvard worry about how it confers degrees. It is already a safe learning environment for all students (except those who buck the trump administration).

 

[reflechissez]

Any attorney would advise their client to tender the requested documents, to avoid the expensive litigation that will take place.

What are you basing this on?

 

[reflechissez]

This statement says a lot about the left.

Creating a safe learning environment may 'be for the rubes' - but that's what we're talking about. You can't bend over backwards for some groups, and allow them to run over others, in the name of 'free speech'. The mission of universities is to teach, not to create some kind of dystopian gauntlet that students have to run in order to get to class.

You made this up, then you proceeded to argue against it. There's a name for that.

 

[George50]

Issues such as immigration, citizenship, admissions, deportations are political questions. They are not Judicial ones.

Congress has plenary power over this.

Subject to Congress not making laws that are unconstitutional. That constitutionality would be determined by the courts.

Not the courts.
Congress has very narrowly limited the courts scope here (immigration courts are part of the Executive Branch, Judicial courts of appeals can only rule upon the facts, and district courts have basically no say). That is what "separation of powers' is all about.

Federal courts from district on up determine if the Executive branch is violating the Constitution or the laws passed by Congress. That’s where Trump is getting into trouble.

That's also why there is talk about the Administrative Procedure Act. Because there is really no other opening.

Congress has ceded some of their authority to the president with respect to national security issues.

So maybe Harvard can't be forced to give up the information requested.
But it doesn't matter. Because the Executive can do what he is threatening to do, because the branch of government that has the power on the subject has ceded (some of it) it to them.

Only if the courts agree with your opinion. They may or may not agree.

That's the end of the story.

The end of the story will be determined by the courts.

 

[Rexedgar]

100%.

I think the bottom line is they think that as long as people who aren't white suffer more than they suffer, they're pretty much okay with it. They see all of this as a zero-sum game.

Brings to mind a quote attributed to LBJ.

A quote by Lyndon B. Johnson

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to loo...

www.goodreads.com

 

[dcsports]

Is this true?

Absolutely. It's been a subject of discussion here on several occasions. They allowed these weird encampments on the campus where people 'protested' and harassed Jewish students.

 

[dcsports]

Let Harvard worry about how it confers degrees. It is already a safe learning environment for all students (except those who buck the trump administration).

A poster suggested this odd scheme of having students transfer to another university to maintain their visas, audit classes at Harvard, and transfer right before graduating.

And no, it hasn't been a safe environment.

 

[dcsports]

You made this up, then you proceeded to argue against it. There's a name for that.

What are you trying to say?

I've been responding to the topic. That response was to a poster who keeps trying to say this is about something else, and said that creating a safe environment for all students "is for rubes".

 

[George50]

That would be up to Harvard.

The Trump Admin isn't trying to throw thousands of foreign students our of the country. It's just a few.

Well it certainly looks like the administration had a plan to throw thousands of foreign students out of our country, but that’s been stopped now unless the administration decides to appeal:

Federal judge stops Trump administration from terminating certain international students' legal status

The Justice Department said last month that it would be reinstating student visa records for more than 4,700 students.

www.cbsnews.com

p.s. don’t confuse this with the Harvard issue.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Let Harvard worry about how it confers degrees. It is already a safe learning environment for all students (except those who buck the trump administration).

Or Jews. Harvard isn’t very safe for Jews.

 

[George50]

Absolutely. It's been a subject of discussion here on several occasions. They allowed these weird encampments on the campus where people 'protested' and harassed Jewish students.

Yes, there were protests that could have been better managed. Harvard learned a lesson there. That ended more than a year ago. It’s nothing more than a red herring the administration is using to justify what it’s doing now.

The reason Harvard and other top universities are being attacked now is that as the Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives says they are “woke elites” and attacking them energizes the Republican base.

Again, I can’t believe they actually advertised that in the title of their summary of the one, big beautiful bill!

Ways and Means Votes To Make 2017 Tax Cuts Permanent, Provide Additional Relief for Workers, Reward Investment in America, and Hold Woke Elites Accountable​

 

[NolanVoyd]

Or Jews. Harvard isn’t very safe for Jews.

I looked and I could only find one actual incident of assault on a Jewish student at Harvard. Just one.

And it was fairly mild. No injuries. And the two students responsible have already been charged and sentenced.

I've seen more frequent, and more violent assaults at college football games

 

[George50]

Or Jews. Harvard isn’t very safe for Jews.

Or Muslims. Neither is anywhere else until Israel and the Palestinians stop hating each other. The problem is a reflection of what is happening in the Middle East.

 

[JMB1911A1]

I looked and I could only find one actual incident of assault on a Jewish student at Harvard. Just one.

And it was fairly mild. No injuries. And the two students responsible have already been charged and sentenced.

I've seen more frequent, and more violent assaults at college football games

Long-awaited Harvard antisemitism report shows intense campus hostility to Jews, Israelis

University's president apologizes as task force urges reforms to admissions, curriculum, research and bias training; 'being Jewish was largely irrelevant' before Oct. 7, says student

www.timesofisrael.com

Harvard University on Tuesday released its long-awaited internal report on campus antisemitism, depicting a hostile atmosphere toward Jews and Israelis before and after the October 2023 invasion of Israel.

Jewish students, and especially Israelis, were often subject to harassment, social shunning and bullying, the report said.

The report said 39% of Jewish students felt not at home on campus, 26% felt physically unsafe, 44% felt mentally unsafe, and 49% felt unsupported in their well-being, and 73% were uncomfortable expressing political opinions. Nearly 60% reported experiencing discrimination, stereotyping, or negative bias.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

Or Jews. Harvard isn’t very safe for Jews.

I will never get over the audacity of the American Right to attempt to speak for demographics they hate.

Do you have many elitist East Coast Ivy League Jews in your social circles?