Trump’s Tragic Fall

[nota bene]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

 

[Hypothetical]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

I will give you that there was a better way he could have handled himself. but this is not only Trump's failing. How dare they do the bolded part.

 

[Jezcoe]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

Or.... and now hear me out.... the majority of people in the nation was sick of the constant chaos.

 

[reinoe]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

This didn't go in the direction I thought it would.

I thought you would point out that all the steps to set up misinformation and potential fraud happened right under Trump's nose and he did nothing about it until it was too late. Despite his supporter's fervent pleas for him to stop it; Trump would do nothing more than issue the feckless statement of "we're monitoring the situation.'

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

...but not because Trump and the GOP had declared it had been stolen. Definitely not that.

IT’s remarkable that Republicans mockingly refer to “unity” while insisting it’s still possible that Biden stole the election. I mean, no, there really can’t be unity if rejection of reality is one of the demands from Republicans.

 

[poweRob]

...but not because Trump and the GOP had declared it had been stolen. Definitely not that.

IT’s remarkable that Republicans mockingly refer to “unity” while insisting it’s still possible that Biden stole the election. I mean, no, there really can’t be unity if rejection of reality is one of the demands from Republicans.

"If you don't give me what I want, then it's you that is being divisive."

 

[Jredbaron96]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

The comment section of this shitty article says it all about Trump supporters.

 

[bongsaway]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

 

[Mongidig]

It seems people forgot this was no normal election year.The election went off pretty well considering it was in the middle of a pandemic.

 

[nota bene]

This didn't go in the direction I thought it would.

I thought you would point out that all the steps to set up misinformation and potential fraud happened right under Trump's nose and he did nothing about it until it was too late. Despite his supporter's fervent pleas for him to stop it; Trump would do nothing more than issue the feckless statement of "we're monitoring the situation.'

I didn't want to comment on that; what I wanted to do was provide a little Shakespearean refresher on what I think most people can agree on, Trump's overweening fatal flaw (seen within the context of various Shakespearean protagonists and their equally fatal flaws). Did you read the article? See value you in the example given in the Chris Wallace interview snippet?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

"If you don't give me what I want, then it's you that is being divisive."

This reads more like “Democrats didn’t let us suppress votes like we wanted so of course it’s their fault we got angry” Whenver they babble about “election integrity” it’s always the same: can’t let too many Black folks vote.

 

[bongsaway]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

The election wasn't stolen and you as a moderator should not be suggesting it was. People voted in droves, the right didn't like the outcome so they acted on it. After all trump has been telling this base now for two elections, they are rigged against him. Trump and his supporters have cast doubt on everything american it's sad to see some on here trying to put the blame elsewhere.

 

[poweRob]

This reads more like “Democrats didn’t let us suppress votes like we wanted so of course it’s their fault we got angry” Whenver they babble about “election integrity” it’s always the same: can’t let too many Black folks vote.

And the brown people that voted are probably illegals!

 

[nota bene]

The comment section of this shitty article says it all about Trump supporters.

I haven't read them. And Trump supporters are irrelevant to the OP. Once again, I regret even imagining for a minute that anybody would be interested in avoiding various rabbit holes and would find common ground on a point on which I think most people, irrespective of political lean, can agree.

 

[Jezcoe]

The comment section of this shitty article says it all about Trump supporters.

I read the article.

If anything Trump is a stupid version of King Lear. A half mad narcissist who demands adoration as he wonders the wilderness in a storm with a vengeful bastard as the kingdom that he has just left tears itself apart because of his actions.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Once again, I regret even imagining for a minute that anybody would be interested in avoiding various rabbit holes and would find common ground on a point on which I think most people, irrespective of political lean, can agree.

If you think the common ground is that Trump is some kind of tragic figure I don't know what to tell you. His administration certainly was a tragedy, but not himself. He was more of a walking disaster.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

And the brown people that voted are probably illegals!

Her entire concuding argument is that Trump should have simply kept pushing the big lie that caused the insurrection in the first place. This is what they think is the moderate just right reaction should have been.

It’s all so insane now. GOP is not coming back.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

If you think the common ground is that Trump is some kind of tragic figure I don't know what to tell you. His administration certainly was a tragedy, but not himself. He was more of a walking disaster.

400k Americans died in 9 months on his watch and that’s before he stages an insurrection against our capitol that results in 5 deaths. but the tragedy is his own hubris. Yes, yes. Of course.

 

[Simpletruther]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

He is vain, and a royal ahole. But nothing wrong with legal challenges to an election.

 

[poweRob]

Her entire concuding argument is that Trump should have simply kept pushing the big lie that caused the insurrection in the first place. This is what they think is the moderate just right reaction should have been.

It’s all so insane now. GOP is not coming back.

Nope. After trump basically lead that insurrection there was a momentary glimpse of the GOP adjusting itself. But no, they intend to act like it either didn't happen or it did but wasn't a big deal.

 

[Rexedgar]

Not to derail, but the OP article led me to this one, also from the National Review......

Witless Ape Rides Helicopter | National Review

Goodbye to Donald J. Trump, the man who wanted to be Conrad Hilton but turned out to be Paris Hilton.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[911Sparky]

Bit of a Shakespeare refresher on hubris here that summarizes Trump's fatal flaw as a "crippling degree of vanity":

During the 2020 election cycle, and indeed during most of Trump’s presidency, Big Tech and the media openly manipulated the flow of information to benefit Democrats, suppressing legitimate news that would hurt Democrats and amplifying misinformation (such as the Russia-Trump collusion hoax) that would hurt Republicans. And after years of Democrats’ pushing relentlessly to loosen election-integrity laws, such as voter-ID requirements, many states enacted mail-in voting and other loose rules for conducting the election in the midst of a pandemic, all in ways that seemed calculated to benefit Democrats, however sincere the “social justice” reasons.

It was both foreseeable and understandable that tens of millions of people would emerge from the election thinking that it had been stolen, and Democrats would be more convincing if they acted a bit less surprised, given their own role in staging the drama. But here is the point: Even if the election were stolen, it was not stolen from Trump; it was stolen from the voters. If the election was dubious, the remedy was not to reverse it by even-more-dubious means, which could only divide the nation even more bitterly, but rather to highlight the problems and to push for solutions that Americans could agree on.

Hence, the day after the election, Trump had before him two very different courses of action. He could accept the formal result of the election, highlight the sanctity of democratic procedure, and use his continuing leadership of the Republican Party to push for reform — and perhaps for another run in 2024. Or he could fan the flames of popular fury, further undermine the people’s trust in our democratic institutions, and risk all in a desperate gambit to benefit himself. https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/trumps-tragic-fall/

trumps "crippling degree of vanity " was certainly fatal for five men and women in the capitol building on Jan. 6. How did Big Tech manipulate the flow of
information? Was it by putting a notation on his tweets and calling them deceptive? The media merely reported on the investigation into Russian collusion, they
didn't create it, trump's own people got that ball rolling. I can't speak for all states, but my state of Ohio did nothing to loosen election laws, this was all part of
trump's phony election fraud bullshit. trump said in 2016 that if he lost, it would be due to election rigging, and he continued right up to and through the 2020
election. If he had never uttered the words 'stolen election' his voters would have accepted the results of the election without question, just as we have for nearly
250 years. Democrat's can only hope trump runs again in 2024, it would guarantee them the presidency, if not the house and senate.

 

[Jezcoe]

Her entire conclusing argument is that Trump should have simply kept pushing the big lie that caused the insurrection in the first place. This is what they think is the moderate just right reaction should have been.

It’s all so insane now. GOP is not coming back.

Sadly I think that the GOP will become a stronger yet dumber form fueled on grievance.

 

[reinoe]

I didn't want to comment on that; what I wanted to do was provide a little Shakespearean refresher on what I think most people can agree on, Trump's overweening fatal flaw (seen within the context of various Shakespearean protagonists and their equally fatal flaws). Did you read the article? See value you in the example given in the Chris Wallace interview snippet?

It was well written as far as journalism goes.

But some of the criticism doesn't necessarily hold up.

For example, if Trump did feel that he was cheated, then it makes sense for him to fight it instead of bowing out. And there seemed to be a lot of bizarre circumstances in the presidential election that would carry over to the runoff. If there were problems with one there's going to be problems with the other. The GA a recount was so bungled as to look half-hearted.

It looked more like "help me help you": and from Trump's perspective he was abandoned by most of the establishment that had always hated him despite the fact that Trump did do a lot for the GOP, especially when it comes to nominating three Supreme Court Justices.

To say Trump "threw away control of the Senate" is a bit nonsensical. I didn't follow the runoff because I knew how it was going to end but each candidate is responsible for their own victory or loss. To an even greater degree, the GOP of Georgia has a responsibility to choose strong candidates. Unless Trump personally hand-picked the candidates he bears no responsibility for their losses.

 

[Jay59]

National Review gets back on the anti-Trump bandwagon. Big surprise. They love what he did, but hate how he looked doing it. It won't be long before 2017-2020 are the good old days.