true educational reform

[lewstherin]

America is declining in educational scores, regarding the other civilized nations of the world. Americans even score beneath the academic levels of even some 3rd world african nations.
i think it's because America has taken the educational system and transformed it into a social indoctrination program, while not keeping in touch with the true reason for public scholastics.
obama wanted to attribute an idiotic excuse for the collapse of the US economy on ATM machines and other technological advances. he obviously has the mind of a child...most can see this. but, there is a small element of truth in his childish reasoning.
our educational system is a bit outdated.
what we need is a complete overhaul as to what should be "accredited" courses, in terms of high school education. let the "basics" only be taught from elementary school to middle school. once a student enrolls in high school, permit the student to either choose high level academic prerequisite courses for further university studies; or permit them to enroll in "tech school" courses, such as computer science and literacy... etc....

if a student wishes, or has no choice but to enter the "trade" fields; then permit this student to enter the workforce as he/she so chooses.

in other words...eliminate the "tech schools", and present them as part of the high school curriculum. this country spends too much money on worthless and outdated
education, in terms of public schooling.

 

[DGomez]

I agree with your post to a certain degree. People have lost touch with what a "liberal arts" education really means. Before it was not quite so big of a deal. A college education was not necessary in order to make a decent living.

Now we are starting to see the breakdown of "college = more money." It doesn't.

But don't place too much faith in our education stats. They're extremely skewed. Sure, we may rank below other countries. But that's because most of our population goes to school. Of course our average will be lower than countries where only a handful are educated.

 

[imagep]

Our educational system may suck, but it is the best it has ever been. Can anyone point to a time in US history where the average US citizen was better educated?

 

[tessaesque]

Our educational system may suck, but it is the best it has ever been. Can anyone point to a time in US history where the average US citizen was better educated?

I guess it depends on the subject. Understanding and use of language has been declining pretty significantly, if professional and personal observations are any indication. I graduate with kids who couldn't read "Animal Farm" without trouble, spelling has fallen by the wayside, and proper use of clauses and clause qualifiers is rare.

Scientifically? We know and teach more than ever before, but many breakthroughs and new understandings aren't originating here. Why is that?

Mathematically? We're way behind the curve on a world level, but I have no basis for comparsion with past generations here in the U.S.

Social studies? Maybe...but there are some foreign students who know more about American history and American government than their U.S. counterparts.

 

[ElCid]

America is declining in educational scores, regarding the other civilized nations of the world. Americans even score beneath the academic levels of even some 3rd world african nations.

I don't believe any of this. It's a strawman-argument which disgruntled, idle Americans have always been able to throw up, when bored or desperate. No thanks. Don't buy it.

 

[MaggieD]

I don't believe any of this. It's a strawman-argument which disgruntled, idle Americans have always been able to throw up, when bored or desperate. No thanks. Don't buy it.

Here's one thing of which I'm certain: The United States has more people than any other country in the world who've had ten to twelve years of schooling who can't put a sentence together, can't spell, can't make change for a dollar and can barely read.

 

[ElCid]

Here's one thing of which I'm certain: The United States has more people than any other country in the world who've had ten to twelve years of schooling who can't put a sentence together, can't spell, can't make change for a dollar and can barely read.

I teach mostly African-American and Hispanic kids. My school has a HUGE English-As-Second-Language population, mostly from Mexico and Central America, and I can say, without a doubt or the slightest hesitation, they would prove you wrong, if tasked to demonstrate their skills. You're just flat ornry. Are you still beating your husband?

 

[MaggieD]

I teach mostly African-American and Hispanic kids. My school has a HUGE English-As-Second-Language population, mostly from Mexico and Central America, and I can say, without a doubt or the slightest hesitation, they would prove you wrong, if tasked to demonstrate their skills. You're just flat ornry. Are you still beating your husband?

It's actually ornery. Point made, don't you think??

Why, are you beating yours?

 

[ElCid]

It's actually ornery. Point made, don't you think??
Why, are you beating yours?

Why the chip on your shoulder? Don't like men?

 

[Helvidius]

America is declining in educational scores, regarding the other civilized nations of the world. Americans even score beneath the academic levels of even some 3rd world african nations.
i think it's because America has taken the educational system and transformed it into a social indoctrination program, while not keeping in touch with the true reason for public scholastics.
obama wanted to attribute an idiotic excuse for the collapse of the US economy on ATM machines and other technological advances. he obviously has the mind of a child...most can see this. but, there is a small element of truth in his childish reasoning.
our educational system is a bit outdated.
what we need is a complete overhaul as to what should be "accredited" courses, in terms of high school education. let the "basics" only be taught from elementary school to middle school. once a student enrolls in high school, permit the student to either choose high level academic prerequisite courses for further university studies; or permit them to enroll in "tech school" courses, such as computer science and literacy... etc....

if a student wishes, or has no choice but to enter the "trade" fields; then permit this student to enter the workforce as he/she so chooses.

in other words...eliminate the "tech schools", and present them as part of the high school curriculum. this country spends too much money on worthless and outdated
education, in terms of public schooling.

Wouldn't they be a bit young to be making such a large decision? I would like to see some changes in the education system, but I believe the main thing is to make sure students are getting a solid education in elementary school and middle school. In particular, there needs to be a civics course. Americans should understand how their government functions and the role they can and should be playing.

 

[DGomez]

Here's one thing of which I'm certain: The United States has more people than any other country in the world who've had ten to twelve years of schooling who can't put a sentence together, can't spell, can't make change for a dollar and can barely read.

Barely is still better than can't read. Considering how many backgrounds all our public school students come from, I'd say our schooling system does a pretty good job.

 

[lewstherin]

Wouldn't they be a bit young to be making such a large decision? I would like to see some changes in the education system, but I believe the main thing is to make sure students are getting a solid education in elementary school and middle school. In particular, there needs to be a civics course. Americans should understand how their government functions and the role they can and should be playing.

not really. when i was in middle school, the kids were already being divided into college pre-requisite and non-college
classes. social classes also become naturally divided at about this time.

 

[washunut]

America is declining in educational scores, regarding the other civilized nations of the world. Americans even score beneath the academic levels of even some 3rd world african nations.
i think it's because America has taken the educational system and transformed it into a social indoctrination program, while not keeping in touch with the true reason for public scholastics.
obama wanted to attribute an idiotic excuse for the collapse of the US economy on ATM machines and other technological advances. he obviously has the mind of a child...most can see this. but, there is a small element of truth in his childish reasoning.
our educational system is a bit outdated.
what we need is a complete overhaul as to what should be "accredited" courses, in terms of high school education. let the "basics" only be taught from elementary school to middle school. once a student enrolls in high school, permit the student to either choose high level academic prerequisite courses for further university studies; or permit them to enroll in "tech school" courses, such as computer science and literacy... etc....

if a student wishes, or has no choice but to enter the "trade" fields; then permit this student to enter the workforce as he/she so chooses.

in other words...eliminate the "tech schools", and present them as part of the high school curriculum. this country spends too much money on worthless and outdated
education, in terms of public schooling.

Can I take a view that is in the vast minority. How about if I say that the education system my son is in the process of going through is doing a very good job. Not only has he consistently done great in all sorts of standardized tests but school has been able to keep him interested in learning.

America is a big place, schooling although we talk about it at the federal level is local. That is where most of the money is raised. That is where the teachers are hired. There seems to be a problem in inner city schools, perhaps that is what is meant here.

 

[Layla_Z]

I'll grant that there are kids graduating without a complete education and that is a shame. However, it's not as bad as some believe. In the media we hear about the failing schools, especially inner city schools. There are many schools that do a fine job, even excellent job. We rarely hear about them. I work at a small school and we are one of the few schools in our state that is still scoring high enough on the big tests. I know that many of the schools around us are doing well also.

The kids that I do see drop out are the ones that make bad choices. They don't try and/or they are such a disruption that they spend more time suspended than they do in school. The parents of these kids are no help. There is an alternative school near us that seems to do a good job reaching those kids, but it is not available to all of them. I don't know what the answer is for these kids. They can't be taught if they don't want to learn. How do you make them want to learn?

As for comparing us to other countries, and I know I've posted this a million times, but many of those other countries don't test all their students. Often they only test the college bound while we test everyone. This doesn't make for a very fair comparison.

 

[lewstherin]

Can I take a view that is in the vast minority. How about if I say that the education system my son is in the process of going through is doing a very good job. Not only has he consistently done great in all sorts of standardized tests but school has been able to keep him interested in learning.

America is a big place, schooling although we talk about it at the federal level is local. That is where most of the money is raised. That is where the teachers are hired. There seems to be a problem in inner city schools, perhaps that is what is meant here.

i'm talking statistically, the american education system is failing compared to other civilized nations.
not just in the inner cities (that's more of a parenting problem), but nationwide.

 

[DGomez]

As for comparing us to other countries, and I know I've posted this a million times, but many of those other countries don't test all their students. Often they only test the college bound while we test everyone. This doesn't make for a very fair comparison.

Exactly! The media is always so quick to trash the American school system. They completely "forget" that not everyone is allowed to attend school in other countries. Or they're just too poor and can't afford it. The fact that we get a large percentage (like, over half) of our large population through 12 years of schooling is impressive to me.