Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘legitimate

[Pound4abrown]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

So you hate the Constitution that much huh?

Congress can look at anyone's tax records at anytime, whenever the mood strikes them....and you don't care?
You don't deserve your rights if you don't mind them being **** on.

Law has been in effect since 1924, why are you only now getting upset about it? Was it ok for them to do so right up until 2019? That is selective outrage.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Has a federal court issued an injunction?

This has to stop. The argument that "they are only requesting these documents for political purposes" could be used against any investigation into any politician from now to eternity. The law has been on the books for a long time, the person requesting the documents has specified a non-partisan reason to get the documents, they should be handed over. And if they are leaked, he should be held accountable for it. If a court issues an injunction, then that changes things. But you can't withhold documents just in case an injunction comes later. Right now, they are breaking the law.

Has to stop?

So you think any rogue political operation should be allowed to proceed, even if it may be illegal and violate a citizens rights?


A citizen has a right to have the court decide what is or isn't a political reason for having their privacy violated.


Why does such a concept cause so much anger?

 

[Pound4abrown]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

A law that violates the Constitution.

That is odd, it has been on the books for 95 years and no court has overruled it as unconstitutional. Wonder why?

 

[What if...?]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Mnuchin says he won'''t release Trump'''s tax returns, says it lacks '''legitimate legislative purpose'''



Basically, Mnuchin and Barr are saying "Let's take this to court and see what they say". That's EXACTLY what they should do too.

Frankly, it kind of feels good to see an administration fight for justice and the rights of the American people.

When did the AG become the presidents personal defense lawyer?

When did someone who has to be confirmed by congress become their superior?

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

That is odd, it has been on the books for 95 years and no court has overruled it as unconstitutional. Wonder why?

This is the first time it has been invoked as a purely political weapon that I know of. Sometimes you don't see the trouble with a law until it is abused...

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Has to stop?

So you think any rogue political operation should be allowed to proceed, even if it may be illegal and violate a citizens rights?


A citizen has a right to have the court decide what is or isn't a political reason for having their privacy violated.


Why does such a concept cause so much anger?

This isn't a "rogue political operation". This is the congress of the united states requesting a document and performing oversight according to US law. And this 1 action isn't what is making people angry. It's all of them combined. One of the branches of our government is defying all norms. They have nearly stopped all press briefings, they have declared that they won't hand over any documents to congress, they won't allow US officials to testify in front of congress and they have declared that they will fight any and all subpoenas. Any citizen that cares more about the country and the law than they care about political gain at all costs should be concerned to say the least. I just didn't imagine that so few republicans actually cared about the country. It's astonishing really. It's been a 3 year decline into the gutters and still digging deeper into the sewer for them.

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

When did the AG become the presidents personal defense lawyer?

When did someone who has to be confirmed by congress become their superior?

I was unaware that congress failed to confirm Barr. I’ll go back and look but I could swear he was confirmed.

The AG is not acting as Trump’s lawyer. He’s acting in the interests of ALL Americans. If congress is given unfettered access to taxpayer information and taxpayers get it in their head that their returns can be pulled for purely political reasons then they might just stop filing tax returns. Neal’s demand is HIGHLY problematic and is in direct conflict with the 4th Amendment. He needs to be challenged on this issue.

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

They gave a legitimate reason, see the request.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/03/neal.letter.to.rettig.signed.2019.04.03.pdf

Yes, their argument is that the IRS has a mandatory review or Presidential tax returns, so they want to make sure that the policy is being applied to Donald Trump...

One problem, and they have tipped their hand in the process: They requested Trump's tax returns for 2013 through 2018 when the only Tax returns that potentially fall under that stated purpose of the request are 2017 and 2018. If their goal was as non-political as they tried to make it sound, they would have asked for the tax returns of President Obama for the years 2013 through 2016. Whoops.

By oddly extending their request only back to statute of limitations, AND requesting returns from years when Obama was president, they have simply signaled that this is a political fishing expedition.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

This isn't a "rogue political operation". This is the congress of the united states requesting a document and performing oversight according to US law. And this 1 action isn't what is making people angry. It's all of them combined. One of the branches of our government is defying all norms. They have nearly stopped all press briefings, they have declared that they won't hand over any documents to congress, they won't allow US officials to testify in front of congress and they have declared that they will fight any and all subpoenas. Any citizen that cares more about the country and the law than they care about political gain at all costs should be concerned to say the least. I just didn't imagine that so few republicans actually cared about the country. It's astonishing really. It's been a 3 year decline into the gutters and still digging deeper into the sewer for them.

It's not for you to declare what is a rogue political operation or what is not. That is why the courts exist. There must be due cause shown before someone's rights are abridged.

That protection exists for you and me and every citizen, no matter what job they have.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

It's not for you to declare what is a rogue political operation or what is not. That is why the courts exist. There must be due cause shown before someone's rights are abridged.

That protection exists for you and me and every citizen, no matter what job they have.

No ones rights are abridged. Can you tell me how congress lawfully reviewing a document is abusing someone's rights?

 

[Airyaman]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Yes, their argument is that the IRS has a mandatory review or Presidential tax returns, so they want to make sure that the policy is being applied to Donald Trump...

One problem, and they have tipped their hand in the process: They requested Trump's tax returns for 2013 through 2018 when the only Tax returns that potentially fall under that stated purpose of the request are 2017 and 2018. If their goal was as non-political as they tried to make it sound, they would have asked for the tax returns of President Obama for the years 2013 through 2016. Whoops.

By oddly extending their request only back to statute of limitations, AND requesting returns from years when Obama was president, they have simply signaled that this is a political fishing expedition.

Trump told us he could not reveal his tax returns because they were under audit. Therefore, this gives House Ways and Means the opportunity to determine if Trump the president is audited in a similar manner as was Trump the private citizen. Hence 6 years.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Yes, their argument is that the IRS has a mandatory review or Presidential tax returns, so they want to make sure that the policy is being applied to Donald Trump...

One problem, and they have tipped their hand in the process: They requested Trump's tax returns for 2013 through 2018 when the only Tax returns that potentially fall under that stated purpose of the request are 2017 and 2018. If their goal was as non-political as they tried to make it sound, they would have asked for the tax returns of President Obama for the years 2013 through 2016. Whoops.

By oddly extending their request only back to statute of limitations, AND requesting returns from years when Obama was president, they have simply signaled that this is a political fishing expedition.

Actually, looking at previous years tax returns are often required to examine future tax returns. It's not common for someone that works a 9 to 5 and gets a salary and that's all that's on their taxes. But someone who runs multiple companies and has all kinds of deferred withholdings and complicated tax maneuvers, you will very likely need previous tax returns if you really want to understand the current one.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

I was unaware that congress failed to confirm Barr. I’ll go back and look but I could swear he was confirmed.

The AG is not acting as Trump’s lawyer. He’s acting in the interests of ALL Americans. If congress is given unfettered access to taxpayer information and taxpayers get it in their head that their returns can be pulled for purely political reasons then they might just stop filing tax returns. Neal’s demand is HIGHLY problematic and is in direct conflict with the 4th Amendment. He needs to be challenged on this issue.

Oh FFS.

I have always assumed that since the government has my tax returns that they're gonna look at them.

And I don't see a problem with congress seeing them. Why would I? I don't have anything to hide, don't even push the limits on my deductions.

I might get upset if they published them, but not too much.

So when somebody REALLY doesn't want congress to see them I wonder why as opposed to screeching in the subjecta defense.

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Oh FFS.

I have always assumed that since the government has my tax returns that they're gonna look at them.

And I don't see a problem with congress seeing them. Why would I? I don't have anything to hide, don't even push the limits on my deductions.

I might get upset if they published them, but not too much.

So when somebody REALLY doesn't want congress to see them I wonder why as opposed to screeching in the subjecta defense.

So if you feel it isn't a problem then everyone else should just go along? Out of curiosity, why do you believe that other people shouldn't be allowed to have opinions which contrast with yours?

 

[ocean515]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

No ones rights are abridged. Can you tell me how congress lawfully reviewing a document is abusing someone's rights?

Simple. The abuse could relate to how a politically motivated faction on a Committee in the House, not Congress itself, (don't attempt that misrepresentation) attempts to obtain the document.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

So if you feel it isn't a problem then everyone else should just go along? Out of curiosity, why do you believe that other people shouldn't be allowed to have opinions which contrast with yours?

I think its "protect trump day" and y'all are out in force.

 

[beefheart]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

I think its "protect trump day" and y'all are out in force.

They can't actually debate the law which has been shown to them over and over, so they are just doing the same old obfuscation and playing dumb and trying to wear posters out. Its the usual craven technique of people who can't argue.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Mnuchin says he won'''t release Trump'''s tax returns, says it lacks '''legitimate legislative purpose'''



Basically, Mnuchin and Barr are saying "Let's take this to court and see what they say". That's EXACTLY what they should do too.

Frankly, it kind of feels good to see an administration fight for justice and the rights of the American people.

If there's nothing damning in tRump's tax returns, then he is an idiot to go this far to hide them. Just do what nearly every presidential candidate does and release them already.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Simple. The abuse could relate to how a politically motivated faction on a Committee in the House, not Congress itself, (don't attempt that misrepresentation) attempts to obtain the document.

Did he give a politically motivated reason for the request? "He's playing politics" isn't a reason to break the law. You aren't giving a real reason. And yes, congress is making the request. The people elected the congress critters and he was appointed to head that committee. There is no difference between all of congress making this request and just him doing so as long as the law is followed.

So how are anyone's rights being trampled?

 

[Pound4abrown]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Absolutely! Our fourth amendment is at stake. Screw congress and their damn overreach!

Only took you 95 years to start worrying about this law. Has there been a 4th amendment crisis for 95 years? My god someone should do something, We need a crying towel in every home!

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Trump told us he could not reveal his tax returns because they were under audit. Therefore, this gives House Ways and Means the opportunity to determine if Trump the president is audited in a similar manner as was Trump the private citizen. Hence 6 years.

Well, no, examinations are mandatory for Presidential tax returns per IRS policy. They aren't mandatory for private citizens. If their goal was to see if he was subject to different policy they could just ask "For 2013 to 2018 can you state whether these tax filings were audited?" ... but no, that isn't what they are doing. If they want to know if the PRESIDENT is treated differently then they should have requested Obama's presidential audits as well... but they didn't. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Also note that the request attempts to justify their authority using internal IRS policy that the request admits is not Federal Law. Their oversight is in Federal Law passed by congress. Even then, accepting their argument, an investigation into the application of that policy would not apply to Trump when he wasn't president, but WOULD apply to President Obama, and yet they didn't ask for Obama's tax returns. Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

[ocean515]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Did he give a politically motivated reason for the request? "He's playing politics" isn't a reason to break the law. You aren't giving a real reason. And yes, congress is making the request. The people elected the congress critters and he was appointed to head that committee. There is no difference between all of congress making this request and just him doing so as long as the law is followed.

So how are anyone's rights being trampled?

Congress is not making the request. Unless I lost track in the chaos, a specific Committee within the House of Representatives is demanding the President's Tax Returns.



United States Congress legal definition of United States Congress

The Congress of the United States is the highest lawmaking body in the United States and one of the oldest national legislatures in the world. Established under the terms of the U.S. Constitution in 1789, the House of Representatives and the Senate have for over 200 years created the federal laws governing the United States

 

[Lutherf]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

If there's nothing damning in tRump's tax returns, then he is an idiot to go this far to hide them. Just do what nearly every presidential candidate does and release them already.

There are times when the principle behind a certain decision is more important than the possible negative results of that decision. Congress is, effectively, blackmailing Trump and if he caves to their demands it will impact every American.

Think about this; if it's upheld that some congressional committee can pull any and all tax returns they want to for any reason then whet's to stop them from pulling every return of every Republican who voted for candidate X in a given election just to insure that those voters weren't unduly influenced by a foreign power or buy certain financial interests? That SHOULD concern every American but, as it seems, it only concerns those of us who have not entirely bought in to the idea that we are supposed to be compliant subjects of the political state.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

There are times when the principle behind a certain decision is more important than the possible negative results of that decision. Congress is, effectively, blackmailing Trump and if he caves to their demands it will impact every American.

That's your ignorant opinion and you're entitled to it. It doesn't change the fact that when tRump holds out this hard, this long, on doing something that should have been mundane, that he should have done three years ago, it gives all the impression that he's hiding something in there.

 

[Airyaman]

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Well, no, examinations are mandatory for Presidential tax returns per IRS policy. They aren't mandatory for private citizens. If their goal was to see if he was subject to different policy they could just ask "For 2013 to 2018 can you state whether these tax filings were audited?" ... but no, that isn't what they are doing. If they want to know if the PRESIDENT is treated differently then they should have requested Obama's presidential audits as well... but they didn't. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Also note that the request attempts to justify their authority using internal IRS policy that the request admits is not Federal Law. Their oversight is in Federal Law passed by congress. Even then, accepting their argument, an investigation into the application of that policy would not apply to Trump when he wasn't president, but WOULD apply to President Obama, and yet they didn't ask for Obama's tax returns. Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

No, president vs same person as private citizen. He himself spoke of being under audits, so if he has so many audits, then it would be advisable to see if his audits were carried out without bias in either case (president/private citizen).