Transgender toddler.

[seymourflops]

The solution to gender dysphoria is not surgery/mutilation.

If a person is truly a woman born in a man's body, or vice versa, the solution is to make them understand that sex is biological, but gender is not. So it is pointless to try to change the gender of the body, because that is biological.

Teach them to be happy in the bodies they have, which can afford them great pleasure if they do not mutilate them. Let the dress, present and live as whatever gender they choose without cutting off important organs. Kaitlyn Jenner is setting a good example on that.

 

[buck]

Their health was getting worse?

You mean this:

The other side of the coin is that the “chest dysphoria” of “transmasculine minors” was said to be so severe that it affected their health. They often resorted to chest binding, which is associated with “pain, rib fractures, light-headedness, weakness, skin infection” and other ailments.

So, it was the chest binding that they were voluntarily doing that was causing the pain, rib fractures, light-headedness, weakness, skin infection and other ailments, not the chest dsyphoria.

Cutting of the breasts because teenage girls bind them to look more like boys is like cutting off a teenage girl's left arm because she is a self-cutter.

The above was my first thought when I read it too. I'm glad I didn't respond. Because I liked your phrasing better.

Most of the rest, including not enough time to measure regret were discussed in the past.

 

[Phys251]

The solution to gender dysphoria is not surgery/mutilation.

Their body, their choice. It is not mutilation, no matter how many times the transphobes tell you that it is.

 

[seymourflops]

Their body, their choice. It is not mutilation, no matter how many times the transphobes tell you that it is.

For a toddler?

 

[Lisa]

For a toddler?

Yes, it is their choice. A child is not to be trained as a show dog to be what the parents want it to be but instead to be nurtured and supported to be who they are. If you do the former then your children should be removed from your home because that is child abuse.

There is nothing medically to do for a decade, so why do you care?

What is it about trans people or the idea of transgender that is so very offensive to conservatives? It's almost as if you have trans feelings and you think that you have successfully repressed them so others must do likewise? Are trans people a threat to the species? Are trans females an existential threat to you and your manhood?

The above was my first thought when I read it too. I'm glad I didn't respond. Because I liked your phrasing better.

Most of the rest, including not enough time to measure regret were discussed in the past.

Trans males (FtM report to chest binding to deal with gender dysphoria, as a way to hide their breasts. That also helps them appear more male to others. It is not self-abuse.

You still cannot get past the idea that a person's genetics or DNA arent the ultimate decider if they are male or female. This is what your hangup is when discussing gender identity.

 

[seymourflops]

The solution to gender dysphoria is not surgery/mutilation.

Their body, their choice. It is not mutilation, no matter how many times the transphobes tell you that it is.

For a toddler?

Yes, it is their choice.

I don't usually say this, but I had to stop reading right their.

 

[Lisa]

I don't usually say this, but I had to stop reading right their.

Do you feel that you would spank or punish the child for that statement and desire? That is child abuse. I hope that you do not have children, especially LGBT children because you would be an unfit parent.

That child has the innate right to live as they are. They are not a puppy to be sent to Christian obedience training by their parents.


BTW, it's "stop reading right there".

 

[buck]

Trans males (FtM report to chest binding to deal with gender dysphoria, as a way to hide their breasts. That also helps them appear more male to others. It is not self-abuse.

Actually it is. According to what you linked, it is causing physical harm. Much like, as Seymour said, cutting helps an individual deal with their mental anguish, yet it is physically harmful. The solution to a 13 year old binding, is not "off with the tits", its "stop binding" if it causing physical damage. Many are likely to accept as they go through puberty, others will not.

You still cannot get past the idea that a person's genetics or DNA arent the ultimate decider if they are male or female

You are clearly wrong, as male and female are sexes. you can only make an argument that it may not (in some small percentage) decide their gender. I can understand your confusion, since you only recently learned that sex has a definiton outside of a physical act. Its an entirely new concept for you.

 

[LostinThought]

Anyone recognize the source?

Sounds like POE/disinfo sabotage material. Toddlers haven't really the capacity to absorb stereotypical gender roles let alone know what it feels like to be themselves. They don't even have much of a concept of other toddlers as beings like them for a bit.



But hey....if we can find people willing to believe the Big Lie and that Trump had the biggest inauguration crowd ever, I'm sure we can find someone willing to claim this about their kiddo.

Who could of guessed, a post from Mr Person with an off-topic whine about Trump.

It must be a day that ends with Y...

 

[Lisa]

Actually it is. According to what you linked, it is causing physical harm. Much like, as Seymour said, cutting helps an individual deal with their mental anguish, yet it is physically harmful. The solution to a 13 year old binding, is not "off with the tits", its "stop binding" if it causing physical damage. Many are likely to accept as they go through puberty, others will not.



You are clearly wrong, as male and female are sexes. you can only make an argument that it may not (in some small percentage) decide their gender. I can understand your confusion, since you only recently learned that sex has a definiton outside of a physical act. Its an entirely new concept for you.

If they are already developing gender dysphoria with their breasts then psychologically trying to teach them into accepting it(which is another name for reparative therapy) is not going to work. These teens are trans and they are not going to desist or detransition if you refuse them the treatments that you do oppose.

Cutting is a symptom of PTSD and self-harm. Trans teens are not intentionally trying to harm themselves. The harm is not intentional but it's a by-product of trying to bind and hide their breasts. You are now confusing cause and effect.

These teens aren't deciding their gender. It was already determined in utero but you also cannot accept that either, so you try to claim that it is a conscious choice to exhibit trans feelings, despite the fact that that claim is very wrong.

You are still stuck on sex and gender. I'm tired of wasting my time trying to explain basic concepts of psychological gender identity to you. You're an intellectual brick wall because of an emotional block.

If you were even half as intelligent as you are convinced that you are you would shut up and listen to the experts instead of believing that you know more than people with 6-8 years of formal study and years of hands-on experience merely because you have read a few conservative sources that agree with your beliefs.

 

[buck]

If you were even half as intelligent as you are convinced that you are you would shut up and listen to the experts instead of believing that you know more than people with 6-8 years of formal study and years of hands-on experience merely because you have read a few conservative sources that agree with your beliefs.

Many in the field agree that the affirmation and medicalization of kids as the primary treatment is not a good idea. WPATH has guidelines against surgeries for Kids. Other countries are changing their approach to kids and the creators.of the dutch protocal have issued warnings about the changing populations they are seeing.

You should shut up and listen to those experts instead of believing that you know more than people with 6-8 years of formal study and years of hands-on experience merely because you have read a few trans activists sources that agree with your beliefs.

 

[Lisa]

The solution to gender dysphoria is not surgery/mutilation.

If a person is truly a woman born in a man's body, or vice versa, the solution is to make them understand that sex is biological, but gender is not. So it is pointless to try to change the gender of the body, because that is biological.

Teach them to be happy in the bodies they have, which can afford them great pleasure if they do not mutilate them. Let the dress, present and live as whatever gender they choose without cutting off important organs. Kaitlyn Jenner is setting a good example on that.

Do you not understand the significance of John Moneys' wholly unethical experiment on David Reimer? Money also tried to change the person's psychological gender identity and it failed so miserably that the patient committed suicide.

Reparative therapy to convince them to be happy in their body doesn't work. It cannot work and it obviously made the gender dysphoria much worse.

Gender confirmation surgery doesn't cut off organs because that would result in them not having sensation in the new structures. Those organs are kept attached to the nerves but instead are reconfigured into a penis, clitoris, and labia, often in a 2 stage surgery.

Many in the field agree that the affirmation and medicalization of kids as the primary treatment is not a good idea. WPATH has guidelines against surgeries for Kids. Other countries are changing their approach to kids and the creators.of the dutch protocal have issued warnings about the changing populations they are seeing.

You should shut up and listen to those experts instead of believing that you know more than people with 6-8 years of formal study and years of hands-on experience merely because you have read a few trans activists sources that agree with your beliefs.

Who are these supposed experts because the hormones and surgery are the only care that is proven to work? Wait and see when the patients gender dysphoria is getting worse is not an option.

The dutch protocol is questioning the sudden rise in numbers seeking treatment. They are not suggesting a change in treatment strategies. There is no successful alternative to the current treatment regieme of hormones and surgery for transgendered patients, regardless of age. regardless of what you want to suggest.

The WPATH guidelines are changing, as evidence by surgery for 16-17 for MtF trans girls.

 

[seymourflops]

Do you feel that you would spank or punish the child for that statement and desire? That is child abuse. I hope that you do not have children, especially LGBT children because you would be an unfit parent.

That child has the innate right to live as they are. They are not a puppy to be sent to Christian obedience training by their parents.


BTW, it's "stop reading right there".

Thank you for the spelling correction.

No I would not spank a child who expressed that there transgender. I'd probably say where'd you hear that, Boo?

Then I'd remember that kids hear and see literally everything these days so they say the darndest
Things sometime.

I certainly would not have the child cut up or injected with foreign substances to "correct" they're body to match there expressed gender.

 

[Lisa]

Thank you for the spelling correction.

No I would not spank a child who expressed that there transgender. I'd probably say where'd you hear that, Boo?

Then I'd remember that kids hear and see literally everything these days so they say the darndest
Things sometime.

I certainly would not have the child cut up or injected with foreign substances to "correct" they're body to match there expressed gender.

Children are not going to discuss gender and human sexuality. if your child did they are gifted and should be in advanced courses.

They are not cutting up and injecting them with foreign substances. Those are teens and those substances are human hormones that their body doesn't produce sufficient amounts of. Do you also oppose cancer and other invasive surgeries because you don't want people cut up?

Do you try to counsel women who take HRT or birth control pills because those are also hormones?

 

[buck]

Who are these supposed experts because the hormones and surgery are the only care that is proven to work? Wait and see when the patients gender dysphoria is getting worse is not an option.

The dutch protocol is questioning the sudden rise in numbers seeking treatment. They are not suggesting a change in treatment strategies.

It greatly concerns me where the field has been going.I feel like what is happening is unethical and irresponsible, in some places: Dr. Laura Edwards-Leeper - the chair for the Child and Adolescent Committee for the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).

She's helping to write SOC 8, and has expressed concerns. You can see her full statement on the 60 minutes detransition piece including where she says many colleagues agree with her but are afraid to speak up.

The dutch protocal creators warnings were about the new cohort being treated the same as the old, with blockers, etc.

 

[seymourflops]

Children are not going to discuss gender and human sexuality. if your child did they are gifted and should be in advanced courses.

They are not cutting up and injecting them with foreign substances. Those are teens and those substances are human hormones that their body doesn't produce sufficient amounts of. Do you also oppose cancer and other invasive surgeries because you don't want people cut up?

Do you try to counsel women who take HRT or birth control pills because those are also hormones?

I was responding to your question that specified "a child."

Cutting into a person with cancer is the lessor of bad options. Letting a teenager wait until there grown up and can decide for themselves on elective surgery is the only ethical option.

 

[Lisa]

It greatly concerns me where the field has been going.I feel like what is happening is unethical and irresponsible, in some places: Dr. Laura Edwards-Leeper - the chair for the Child and Adolescent Committee for the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).

She's helping to write SOC 8, and has expressed concerns. You can see her full statement on the 60 minutes detransition piece including where she says many colleagues agree with her but are afraid to speak up.

The dutch protocal creators warnings were about the new cohort being treated the same as the old, with blockers, etc.

I'm not surprised that you would support her. She doesn't support the current treatment protocol, but she has nothing positive to support her ideas.

Laura Ann Edwards-Leeper (born January 18, 1975) is an American psychologist best known for her work with gender diverse youth. She has become a favored source for journalists promoting the ex-transgender movement and a leading voice in a faction of therapists who have “concerns” that affirmative models of care for trans youth

Background​

Edwards-Leeper earned a bachelor’s degree from Lewis & Clark College in 1997, then Bowling Green State University, where she earned earned a graduate certificate in women’s studies in 2003 and a PhD in 2004. She did internships through Montana State University, Bozeman at Crow/Northern Cheyenne Hospital and through Cambridge Health Alliance/Harvard Medical School. She is married to Todd Steven Edwards-Leeper (born 1973).

I was respinding to your question that specified "a child."

Cutting into a person with cancer is the lessor of bad options. Letting a teenager wait until there grown up and can decide for themselves on elective surgery is the only ethical option.

Those teens can already decide for themselves. Their worsening gender dysphoria is the obvious answer to not delay care. Delaying care until they are 18+ makes the situation worse, but mentally and physically.

 

[buck]

I'm not surprised that you would support her. She doesn't support the current treatment protocol, but she has nothing positive to support her ideas.

Not only do you get to accuse me of ignoring facts while you literally ignore official government statistics, but you even get to accuse me of ignoring experts in the field while you literally ignore experts in the field. Laughable..

 

[Lisa]

Not only do you get to accuse me of ignoring facts while you literally ignore official government statistics, but you even get to accuse me of ignoring experts in the field while you literally ignore experts in the field. Laughable..

It is obvious that you unsuccessful support trans reparative therapy and you don't like the fact that others can see through your gaslighting claims of supporting trans people, despite the fact that every debunked claim you make disproves your gaslighting.

You are a transphobe because you do not accept the core idea that psychological gender identity is more important to determining a person's gender than their physical sex or DNA. Why do you think psychological gender identity exists? you are physically driven and the idea that something you cannot physically see is more important to their sex is abhorrent to you because if you accept it you would have to change your ways of thinking or even the core idea of who people are or even your own feelings.

 

[buck]

It is obvious that you unsuccessful support trans reparative therapy and you don't like the fact that others can see through your gaslighting claims of supporting trans people, despite the fact that every debunked claim you make disproves your gaslighting.

You are a transphobe because you do not accept the core idea that psychological gender identity is more important to determining a person's gender than their physical sex or DNA. Why do you think psychological gender identity exists? you are physically driven and the idea that something you cannot physically see is more important to their sex is abhorrent to you because if you accept it you would have to change your ways of thinking or even the core idea of who people are or even your own feelings.

So, now we know what someone (you) that purposely ignores facts and experts in the field would say.

 

[Roger Duke]

I'm not going to flip through these 5 pages but the thread title reminds me of Ellen Degeneres. She said that parents do not have the right to dress their babies in pink or blue because it is not the right of parents to determine their child's sexual orientation.
And guess what? She was selling a gender neutral line of baby clothes for those evil hateful intolerant homophobic parents who see the light and mend their ways.

 

[Lisa]

So, now we know what someone (you) that purposely ignores facts and experts in the field would say.

You have a proven habit of cherrypicking statistics out of context to support your opinions in the same way that conservative Christians cherry-pick the bible to support their hypocritical beliefs. I've caught you doing it multiple times.

There is no evidence supporting the idea of delaying medical care or trying to affirm their birth sex makes for successful outcomes. In fact, it is the opposite. Those tactics make the situation much worse because gender dysphoria is exacerbated, but you don't care because you ignore the core importance of gender identity.

 

[buck]

You have a proven habit of cherrypicking statistics out of context to support your opinions in the same way that conservative Christians cherry-pick the bible to support their hypocritical beliefs. I've caught you doing it multiple times.

There is no evidence supporting the idea of delaying medical care or trying to affirm their birth sex makes for successful outcomes. In fact, it is the opposite. Those tactics make the situation much worse because gender dysphoria is exacerbated, but you don't care because you ignore the core importance of gender identity.

Those that purposly ignore facts and experts in the field sure have a lot of nothing to say.

 

[Phys251]

For a toddler?

For any adult. You would agree, right? Or do you want to control what adults do to their own genitals?

 

[Phys251]

I'm not going to flip through these 5 pages but the thread title reminds me of Ellen Degeneres. She said that parents do not have the right to dress their babies in pink or blue because it is not the right of parents to determine their child's sexual orientation.
And guess what? She was selling a gender neutral line of baby clothes for those evil hateful intolerant homophobic parents who see the light and mend their ways.

Interesting post. And completely devoid of value.