Trade deal with EU and U.S. reached

[Callen]

Your goal and point fell flat, IMO.

Had it been a big down day, it might have made sense to toss out your attempt - but it was just a meh and boring day, which made your comment 133 look rather comical. Sometimes you just try too hard - when you don't have a thing of punch or value to offer. An ability to pace yourself and exercise patience is NOT a strength you demonstrate on these fms.

Swing and a miss. You predicted the markets would like the deal. They don't . It's your post that fell flat. I'll ignore the rest of your petty post and stick with the facts. Contrary to your predictions the markets don't see this as a significant " deal ".

 

[gbg3]

Swing and a miss. You predicted the markets would like the deal. They don't . It's your post that fell flat. I'll ignore the rest of your petty post and stick with the facts. Contrary to your predictions the markets don't see this as a significant " deal ".

LOL, no Callen, it was your swing and miss - just your usual trying too hard and then flopping with a typical leftist - nothing of value to add to a thread - nonsense.

I thought of engaging in the same kind of nonsense with you the other day when you tried and tried again to figure out the common word "complicit" - and after two tries, you still couldn't get there. I felt like saying the third try might be a charm. I refrained then but it appears that kind of behavior is the perfect caliber for you.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

The Commission should now present the deal to member states and EU lawmakers — who will ultimately decide whether or not to approve it.

The media still has not provided the positions of EU leaders on this trade deal.

CBS reports, "The new trade agreement between the U.S. and the European Union will lift tariffs on imports of goods from EU countries to their highest level in decades and hurt the trading bloc's economic growth, according to some experts.

"It is an asymmetric and unbalanced deal," economists with investment bank Société Générale said in a report. The EU decided neither to retaliate nor to increase its tariffs, and is even expected to reduce them. The EU agreed to a bad deal rather than risk trade war escalation."

"The average tariff on U.S. imports from the EU will surge from 1.2% in 2024 to 17.5%, according to investor advisory firm Capital Economics. That will reduce the EU's annual gross domestic product by 0.2%, the investment advisory firm forecast.

"The deal, announced Sunday by President Trump and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, imposes a 15% U.S. tariff on most EU imports, while American goods exported to the union's 27 member countries will face no tariffs."

 

[Callen]

LOL, no Callen, it was your swing and miss - just your usual trying too hard and then flopping with a typical leftist - nothing of value to add to a thread - nonsense.

I thought of engaging in the same kind of nonsense with you the other day when you tried and tried again to figure out the common word "complicit" - and after two tries, you still couldn't get there. I felt like saying the third try might be a charm. I refrained then but it appears that kind of behavior is the perfect caliber for you.

Sorry, not interested in your personal attacks. Facts are you thought the markets would like the deal they don't.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

"The deal, announced Sunday by President Trump and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, imposes a 15% U.S. tariff on most EU imports, while American goods exported to the union's 27 member countries will face no tariffs."

The media still has not provided the positions of EU leaders on this trade deal.

Perhaps this is why. Source: Reuters

FRENCH PRIME MINISTER FRANCOIS BAYROU​

"It is a sombre day when an alliance of free peoples, brought together to affirm their common values and to defend their common interests, resigns itself to submission."

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER PEDRO SANCHEZ​

"I value the efforts made by the European Commission, and I value the constructive and negotiating attitude of the President of the European Commission. In any case, I support this trade agreement, but I do so without any enthusiasm."

HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER VIKTOR ORBAN​

"This is not an agreement ... Donald Trump ate von der Leyen for breakfast, this is what happened and we suspected this would happen as the U.S. president is a heavyweight when it comes to negotiations while Madame President is featherweight."

GERMAN CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ​

"This agreement has succeeded in averting a trade conflict that would have hit the export-orientated German economy hard.

ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER GIORGIA MELONI​

"I consider it positive that there is an agreement, but if I don't see the details I am not able to judge it in the best way."

GERMAN ECONOMY MINISTER KATHERINA REICHE​

"The agreement, with its 15% base tariff, is certainly something that will challenge us.

 

[maxparrish]

Perhaps this is why. Source: Reuters

FRENCH PRIME MINISTER FRANCOIS BAYROU​

"It is a sombre day when an alliance of free peoples, brought together to affirm their common values and to defend their common interests, resigns itself to submission."

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER PEDRO SANCHEZ​

"I value the efforts made by the European Commission, and I value the constructive and negotiating attitude of the President of the European Commission. In any case, I support this trade agreement, but I do so without any enthusiasm."

HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER VIKTOR ORBAN​

"This is not an agreement ... Donald Trump ate von der Leyen for breakfast, this is what happened and we suspected this would happen as the U.S. president is a heavyweight when it comes to negotiations while Madame President is featherweight."

GERMAN CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ​

"This agreement has succeeded in averting a trade conflict that would have hit the export-orientated German economy hard.

ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER GIORGIA MELONI​

"I consider it positive that there is an agreement, but if I don't see the details I am not able to judge it in the best way."

GERMAN ECONOMY MINISTER KATHERINA REICHE​

"The agreement, with its 15% base tariff, is certainly something that will challenge us.

Frankly, as much as one might sympathize with European desires to strike back at Trumps idiot tariffs; their not doing maximized their own wellbeing. Trump has chosen to punish the American people will a major tax that will lower yearly growth, enhance inflationary effects, and lower our standard of living either through more costly products (or foregone purchases) or reduced nominal wages.

Naturally, Europe will export less because the US consumer and businesses are being punished with increased costs. That said, there isn't any point in them also punishing themselves and the European consumers and businesses with reciprocal tariffs.

A February article by Dougals Irwin (Prof of Economics at Dartmouth) published in WSJ, responded to Trumps assurance (ie lie) that he only wanted to impose the same tariffs on other countries as they impose on the U.S.: “No more, no less.”

And the same reasons he saw it as a bad idea for the US to "retaliate" with reciprocal makes it an economically bad idea for the Europeans to do so now. The same principle applies here: The Europeans shouldn’t have stupid tariff policies that harm themselves just because the US has stupid tariff policies that harms itself.

Indeed, it is especially stupid for countries that have a trade deficit to tariff those with which they have a trade surplus. "The U.S. runs trade surpluses with Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands, the U.K., Singapore and most of Central and South America." Yet only a foolish Australian or South American would suggest they would be better off by putting more tariffs on the US (a major supplier), just as we are fools for doing so on others that supply us.

As he wrote concerning the US, and equally applicable to Europe as well:

"Reciprocal tariffs don’t make sense even using the mercantilist logic that pervades the Trump administration. A prolonged bout of inflation has made the American public sensitive about prices. The U.S. shouldn’t be imposing tariffs that will raise the cost of living for American consumers on all manner of goods and justify it on the illusory basis of fairness and reciprocity. If we truly want reciprocity—meaning zero tariffs on both sides—then the answer is to conclude free-trade agreements with willing partners. The U.S. could and should be negotiating such trade agreements with the European Union, Japan and other trading partners and allies. But the Trump administration is obsessed with mercantilism and trade balances."

'The Trump administration thinks it’s using tariffs to beat up other countries. In reality, U.S. businesses and consumers will take the hit. Even Mr. Trump’s hero William McKinley said, “Commercial wars are unprofitable.” Sadly, it’s advice that the administration seems likely to ignore."

Trump has ignored it, the Europeans were economically wiser to not prove they are as stupid as Trump.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/reciprocal-tariffs-make-no-sense-duties-trade-economy-policy-china-d682c356

 

[hooligan]

Nope

How does that cognitive dissonance feel?

 

[hooligan]

Who pays the tariffs?

Right? These posters can't still be this ignorant about the mechanics of tariffs, can they?

 

[Luce]

Perhaps this is why. Source: Reuters

FRENCH PRIME MINISTER FRANCOIS BAYROU​

"It is a sombre day when an alliance of free peoples, brought together to affirm their common values and to defend their common interests, resigns itself to submission."

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER PEDRO SANCHEZ​

"I value the efforts made by the European Commission, and I value the constructive and negotiating attitude of the President of the European Commission. In any case, I support this trade agreement, but I do so without any enthusiasm."

HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER VIKTOR ORBAN​

"This is not an agreement ... Donald Trump ate von der Leyen for breakfast, this is what happened and we suspected this would happen as the U.S. president is a heavyweight when it comes to negotiations while Madame President is featherweight."

GERMAN CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ​

"This agreement has succeeded in averting a trade conflict that would have hit the export-orientated German economy hard.

ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER GIORGIA MELONI​

"I consider it positive that there is an agreement, but if I don't see the details I am not able to judge it in the best way."

GERMAN ECONOMY MINISTER KATHERINA REICHE​

"The agreement, with its 15% base tariff, is certainly something that will challenge us.

Our allies are saying these things and the MAGAs think it is a victory.

 

[Luce]

I suppose one of the positive aspects of Trump cult threads is to more fully appreciate the bottomless well of lumpen thinking that animate our current regime. For instance, the totality of "arguments" on behalf of tariffs in this thread are essentially (if not always literally) these:


"I saw Trump on TV announcing victory with a relieved EU official putting lipstick on a pig, oh praise Trump."

"Fabulous news for the country, how can economists, wall street, and most industry leaders not see Trump's simple-minded ignorance as a benefit? "

"Isn't it great the Trump got vague and puffed-up assurances by EU's current President, which is like a real contract that is enforceable on every country, right? Isn't the EU run like the US where their President is king?"

"Doesn't everyone know their promise of "vast amounts of weapons purchases" is much better than actual contracts with read payments for delivery?"

"Why, the US consumer is paying 15 percent more at this moment, so it can't be true in the future."

"Anyone, like those point-head International trade economists and most other four eyed experts, who says this isn't great are all leftists and spinning, because they hate Trump and want to see him fail".

Great stuff, no?

It's like there's an idiot factory. One right after another, and they're absolutely indistinguishable from each other.

 

[Luce]

Lol, no kidding.

Canadians aren't having meltdowns about tariffs placed on their exports to us because they are genuinely feeling that our U.S. citizens will be the ones "paying for those tariffs".

We absolutely will.

Do you think the importers or distributors will eat those costs out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[Sandy Shanks]

The Commission should now present the deal to member states and EU lawmakers — who will ultimately decide whether or not to approve it.

The media still has not provided the positions of EU leaders on this trade deal.

That was corrected today by a major news source, but it is not all good.

CNN reports, "Trump has pulled off what few outside the White House predicted: A trade war victory of sorts that sets America’s taxes on imported goods higher than the infamous Smoot-Hawley era.

"Multiple framework agreements between the United States and other trading partners have jacked up tariffs on foreign goods imported to America while setting levies on US exports at or near zero.

"But Trump’s early trade victory may be short-lived. In fact, it is already showing signs that it may not last. The European Union, fresh off its 11th-hour compromise to get a trade agreement done before Trump’s self-imposed August 1 deadline, is already in revolt.

"French Prime Minister François Bayrou called Sunday a “dark day.” Hungarian Prime Minister and Trump ally Viktor Orban said Trump steamrolled the EU. Belgium’s Prime Minister Bart De Wever lambasted the Trump administration’s “delusion of protectionism.” And Bernd Lange, chair of the European Parliament’s trade committee, said the deal is “not satisfactory.”

"The 27-member bloc has to hammer out key aspects of its framework, and the fragile trade truce between two of the world’s largest economies could quickly break apart if sentiment turns against the arrangement."

 

[maxparrish]

It's like there's an idiot factory. One right after another, and they're absolutely indistinguishable from each other.

Like many pests, you turn the light on and they usually scurry into dark corners elsewhere. Those who remain are somewhat resistant to the pesticide of reason, evidence, and experience. Even so, you will also note that it has some effect on the bitter enders, as while being quite active in the early thread they are usually gone or at least silent by the end.

 

[maxparrish]

That was corrected today by a major news source, but it is not all good.

CNN reports, "Trump has pulled off what few outside the White House predicted: A trade war victory of sorts that sets America’s taxes on imported goods higher than the infamous Smoot-Hawley era.

"Multiple framework agreements between the United States and other trading partners have jacked up tariffs on foreign goods imported to America while setting levies on US exports at or near zero.

"But Trump’s early trade victory may be short-lived. In fact, it is already showing signs that it may not last. The European Union, fresh off its 11th-hour compromise to get a trade agreement done before Trump’s self-imposed August 1 deadline, is already in revolt.

"French Prime Minister François Bayrou called Sunday a “dark day.” Hungarian Prime Minister and Trump ally Viktor Orban said Trump steamrolled the EU. Belgium’s Prime Minister Bart De Wever lambasted the Trump administration’s “delusion of protectionism.” And Bernd Lange, chair of the European Parliament’s trade committee, said the deal is “not satisfactory.”

"The 27-member bloc has to hammer out key aspects of its framework, and the fragile trade truce between two of the world’s largest economies could quickly break apart if sentiment turns against the arrangement."

I can appreciate their anger but a strategy of reciprocal tariffing isn't likely to accomplish anything. Trump's ego is such that he would facilitate a world collapse into a great depression in order not to be seen as a "loser". When two are in a wood boat and each threaten to shoot more holes in its bottom as a form of retribution the wise party will desist so at least the boat sinks slower.

 

[maxparrish]

I can appreciate their anger but a strategy of reciprocal tariffing isn't likely to accomplish anything. Trump's ego is such that he would facilitate a world collapse into a great depression in order not to be seen as a "loser". When two are in a wood boat and each threaten to shoot more holes in its bottom as a form of retribution the wise party will desist so at least the boat sinks slower.

That said, I should add that in spite of Europe making the wise choice, in my gut I'd like to see them fight back. The sooner folks get that tariffs and trade wars are insane, the sooner we can stop the mad King.

 

[Callen]

That said, I should add that I'd like to see them fight back. The sooner folks get that tariffs and trade wars are insane, the sooner we can stop the mad King.

How do you fight back? Trump, by virtue of his power, and the willingness of Congress to allow him to usurp their Constitutionally endowed powers, can do incredible harm to those who resist. Countries have to do the best they can to insulate themselves from significant economic harm. This too shall pass, but the way countries deal with the US has forever changed and not to the benefit of Americans in the long run.

 

[eohrnberger]

Trump and Ursula having a presser right now. They are both very pleased.

And the markets continue to remain unruffled by the so called 'tariff wars', posting record levels again.

US stock market rallies as S&P 500 and Nasdaq hit fresh records amid earnings boom and Fed rate cut hopes

US stock market continued its winning streak as the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite reached new record highs, driven by strong corporate earnings, booming tech stocks, and growing hopes of a Federal Reserve rate cut. The Dow Jones also inched higher, though slightly behind its all-time high due to...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

All the agitprop about tariffs crashing the economy is exactly that, agitprop.

 

[maxparrish]

How do you fight back? Trump, by virtue of his power, and the willingness of Congress to allow him to usurp their Constitutionally endowed powers, can do incredible harm to those who resist. Countries have to do the best they can to insulate themselves from significant economic harm. This too shall pass, but the way countries deal with the US has forever changed and not to the benefit of Americans in the long run.

I am not saying fighting back is wise, from an economic standpoint its not. However, sometimes you have to sink the boat to derail his madness, and a tit for tat war would likely end international trade and bring ruin to all, but especially the US.

It's a heavy price but sometimes liberty needs refreshed with the economic lessons; remember, Biden did little to roll back Trump's first term tariffs. Whatever Trump does now will create a stream of income that ALL Presidents will be hesitant to end.

 

[Callen]

I am not saying fighting back is wise, from an economic standpoint its not. However, sometimes you have to sink the boat to derail his madness, and a tit for tat war would likely end international trade and bring ruin to all, but especially the US.

I think most countries are hoping he sinks his own boat.

 

[hooligan]

And the markets continue to remain unruffled by the so called 'tariff wars', posting record levels again...

The DJIA is down 280pts over the last 5 days....

It's down about 385pts since Trump took office.

 

[maxparrish]

And the markets continue to remain unruffled by the so called 'tariff wars', posting record levels again.

US stock market rallies as S&P 500 and Nasdaq hit fresh records amid earnings boom and Fed rate cut hopes

US stock market continued its winning streak as the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite reached new record highs, driven by strong corporate earnings, booming tech stocks, and growing hopes of a Federal Reserve rate cut. The Dow Jones also inched higher, though slightly behind its all-time high due to...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

All the agitprop about tariffs crashing the economy is exactly that, agitprop.

It's called relief rallies. As I pointed out, measurable inflationary effects range from 4 months to 16 months. August will be the first possible month to see effects, the full impact of which won't be measured until stockpiled purchases are exhausted and US company profit margins shrink. (By this time next year, those effects should be apparent to all, including the voters).

It's a shame really, Trump's reckless personae might have actually worked to shatter tariffs and barriers for all, maximizing the economy's output. A free market conservative (which were the conservatives, classical liberals, and libertarians before Trump) could have continued to modernize international trade and instead, has seeded the future to a lower standard of living.

Such is the price we pay for a population and President who are throwbacks to economic illiteracy.

 

[maxparrish]

Perhaps this is why. Source: Reuters

FRENCH PRIME MINISTER FRANCOIS BAYROU​

"It is a sombre day when an alliance of free peoples, brought together to affirm their common values and to defend their common interests, resigns itself to submission."

SPANISH PRIME MINISTER PEDRO SANCHEZ​

"I value the efforts made by the European Commission, and I value the constructive and negotiating attitude of the President of the European Commission. In any case, I support this trade agreement, but I do so without any enthusiasm."

HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER VIKTOR ORBAN​

"This is not an agreement ... Donald Trump ate von der Leyen for breakfast, this is what happened and we suspected this would happen as the U.S. president is a heavyweight when it comes to negotiations while Madame President is featherweight."

GERMAN CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ​

"This agreement has succeeded in averting a trade conflict that would have hit the export-orientated German economy hard.

ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER GIORGIA MELONI​

"I consider it positive that there is an agreement, but if I don't see the details I am not able to judge it in the best way."

GERMAN ECONOMY MINISTER KATHERINA REICHE​

"The agreement, with its 15% base tariff, is certainly something that will challenge us.

As a digression, Orban's reaction underscores the inherent contradictions in the Alt Right mutual admiration society. An ideology of "Unser Land über alles" is inherently hostile to every other nation's interests, especially those who share the same ideology and their own fierce nationalism.

As Trump endorses others far right, he is endorsing future adversaries who are LESS willing to tolerate his hostility to their wellbeing - at least in theory.

Either that or Trump thinks he is cultivating quislings.

 

[hooligan]

All the agitprop about tariffs crashing the economy is exactly that, agitprop.

...Half a percentage point may not sound like much, but in an economy as huge as the United States’, it amounts to a loss of about $150 billion. That’s the equivalent of every household in America taking around $1,000 and lighting it on fire — then doing it again every year. Forever...

Opinion | The Tariffs Kicked In. The Sky Didn’t Fall. Were the Economists Wrong?

Well, it’s complicated.

www.nytimes.com

 

[eohrnberger]

...Half a percentage point may not sound like much, but in an economy as huge as the United States’, it amounts to a loss of about $150 billion. That’s the equivalent of every household in America taking around $1,000 and lighting it on fire — then doing it again every year. Forever...

Opinion | The Tariffs Kicked In. The Sky Didn’t Fall. Were the Economists Wrong?

Well, it’s complicated.

www.nytimes.com

So you cite yet more agitprop. OK.

 

[hooligan]

So you cite yet more agitprop. OK.

No, I cited the Yale Budget Lab and the US Bureau of Economic Analysis. Read the article.